New tenancy laws coming into effect Feb 11 2021

Forums › Home Workshop DIY › New tenancy laws coming into effect Feb 11 2021

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13

980 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

#2637377 18-Jan-2021 14:15

This thread has devolved into two camps, those who are or have been landlords and know what it is like, and those who have not but are convinced they know what it is like.

Truth is, many, if not most landlords are just normal people who paid off their mortgage and thought the logical thing to do would be buy a rental property.

The rent covered the rates, insurance and the mortgage, and the interest on the mortgage wrote off the tax bill and things were pretty much alright.

Then the various earthquakes struck, the councils continue to increase rates, the government introduced ring fencing, the interest rates got real low. The outrageous rents we are seeing are just landlords expecting a property to wash its own face.

It's great fun to pull out the capital gains card at this point, but the reality is no-one is willing to hemorrhage money for 15-20 years waiting for the future payout when the property is sold. Many never plan to sell, they want the property paid off so they can have passive income in the future, in which case the actual value of the property is irrelevant.

It's all a bit awful really but to pin this mess on the landlords is not addressing the real problems.

antonknee

551 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2637443 18-Jan-2021 15:24

gbwelly:

This thread has devolved into two camps, those who are or have been landlords and know what it is like, and those who have not but are convinced they know what it is like.

Truth is, many, if not most landlords are just normal people who paid off their mortgage and thought the logical thing to do would be buy a rental property.

It's all a bit awful really but to pin this mess on the landlords is not addressing the real problems.

There's a third camp - people who are or have been tenants and know what it is like.

Yes.... woe is the landlord who owns not one, but multiple properties....

It's not about pinning mess on landlords. The changes to tenancy law make life easier and more secure as a renter, and addresses problems which needed to be addressed, even if it doesn't solve the housing crisis in one fell swoop.

It actually doesn't matter if landlords are just normal people. If one enters a business (which is what investment property is, regardless of if you just thought it was logical to buy another house once you paid your mortgage off) then one is expected to run their business appropriately and not endlessly complain about it online. I'd also say if you're in the business of housing you need to appreciate that housing is by definition very different to other businesses because it's a human need and a human right.

Ant Reformed geek | Referral links: Electric Kiwi Sharesies Stake

sir1963

1242 posts

Uber Geek

#2637459 18-Jan-2021 15:52

antonknee:

gbwelly:

This thread has devolved into two camps, those who are or have been landlords and know what it is like, and those who have not but are convinced they know what it is like.

Truth is, many, if not most landlords are just normal people who paid off their mortgage and thought the logical thing to do would be buy a rental property.

It's all a bit awful really but to pin this mess on the landlords is not addressing the real problems.

There's a third camp - people who are or have been tenants and know what it is like.

Yes.... woe is the landlord who owns not one, but multiple properties....

It's not about pinning mess on landlords. The changes to tenancy law make life easier and more secure as a renter, and addresses problems which needed to be addressed, even if it doesn't solve the housing crisis in one fell swoop.

It actually doesn't matter if landlords are just normal people. If one enters a business (which is what investment property is, regardless of if you just thought it was logical to buy another house once you paid your mortgage off) then one is expected to run their business appropriately and not endlessly complain about it online. I'd also say if you're in the business of housing you need to appreciate that housing is by definition very different to other businesses because it's a human need and a human right.

I would guarantee that 99% or more landlords have also been tenants.

Something like 90% of landlords own1 rental.

Then give landlords the same rights as every other business.

Why is it that police will turn up when someone steals $100 worth of food from a shop, but have no interest when tenants cause thousands in damage ?

Food is a human right. So is health. Doctors regularly get rid of troublesome patients.

Let me know when a transplant team can come around to your place and check out your kidneys. You only need one. There are people with none, and here you are hoarding an extra, denying someone a right to a healthier life.

Someones right to shelter could also be fixed if they moved into your house.

Put YOUR money where YOUR mouth is. Be brave, be a person who lives up to their own principles.

GV27

2534 posts

Uber Geek

#2637468 18-Jan-2021 16:05

sir1963:

Then give landlords the same rights as every other business.

And what of investors who get to claim financing and maintenance costs, as opposed to owner-occupiers who not only have to cover the full cost of their financing and maintenance, but also underwrite a portion of yours?

duckDecoy

194 posts

Master Geek

#2637469 18-Jan-2021 16:06

I'm thumbs up for any resonable improvement that gives tennants more security around being able to stay longer and build a life in a particular house. We didn't move into our own home until our early 30's and lived and many different flats before then. Every single move was due to being kicked out by the landlord because they wanted to sell or have a family member move in [at least that's what they told us]. For one flat we didn't even make it to the 3 month mark before the owner decided they wanted to sell. It was a constant niggle in the back of our minds that any day now we could be flat hunting again. I hated that feeling. I cannot imagine what it would be like if you had school aged children.

Removing that stress from renters would be great in my opinion.

antonknee

551 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2637473 18-Jan-2021 16:25

sir1963:

Then give landlords the same rights as every other business.

Why is it that police will turn up when someone steals $100 worth of food from a shop, but have no interest when tenants cause thousands in damage ?

Food is a human right. So is health. Doctors regularly get rid of troublesome patients.

Let me know when a transplant team can come around to your place and check out your kidneys. You only need one. There are people with none, and here you are hoarding an extra, denying someone a right to a healthier life.

Someones right to shelter could also be fixed if they moved into your house.

Put YOUR money where YOUR mouth is. Be brave, be a person who lives up to their own principles.

Hi, retailer here for many, many years - the Police don't actually turn up for theft from a shop. You can call and log a case but there is generally no action from Police. My store was once held up and the Police did not show for that either. I did once log a case file and provided very clear CCTV evidence, around six months later I was informed the person was known to Police however nothing would come of my report.

I'm sure you'd be aware that finding a new GP is a little easier than moving your entire life to a new house, so although I see your point - it's not really a fair comparison.

Sure - I'm actually registered as an organ donor for when I die. You may be interested to know it's actually not very easy to donate organs while you're alive (although not impossible), and in any case I am restricted from doing so for reasons that aren't relevant to this thread. Additionally I do in fact rent a room to someone else - so there you are. But you know, thanks for the implication I don't live up to my own principles I guess.

Ant Reformed geek | Referral links: Electric Kiwi Sharesies Stake

sir1963

1242 posts

Uber Geek

#2637476 18-Jan-2021 16:34

GV27:

sir1963:

Then give landlords the same rights as every other business.

And what of investors who get to claim financing and maintenance costs, as opposed to owner-occupiers who not only have to cover the full cost of their financing and maintenance, but also underwrite a portion of yours?

You mean just like other self employed people ?

sir1963

1242 posts

Uber Geek

#2637479 18-Jan-2021 16:41

antonknee:

sir1963:

Then give landlords the same rights as every other business.

Why is it that police will turn up when someone steals $100 worth of food from a shop, but have no interest when tenants cause thousands in damage ?

Food is a human right. So is health. Doctors regularly get rid of troublesome patients.

Let me know when a transplant team can come around to your place and check out your kidneys. You only need one. There are people with none, and here you are hoarding an extra, denying someone a right to a healthier life.

Someones right to shelter could also be fixed if they moved into your house.

Put YOUR money where YOUR mouth is. Be brave, be a person who lives up to their own principles.

Hi, retailer here for many, many years - the Police don't actually turn up for theft from a shop. You can call and log a case but there is generally no action from Police. My store was once held up and the Police did not show for that either. I did once log a case file and provided very clear CCTV evidence, around six months later I was informed the person was known to Police however nothing would come of my report.

I'm sure you'd be aware that finding a new GP is a little easier than moving your entire life to a new house, so although I see your point - it's not really a fair comparison.

Sure - I'm actually registered as an organ donor for when I die. You may be interested to know it's actually not very easy to donate organs while you're alive (although not impossible), and in any case I am restricted from doing so for reasons that aren't relevant to this thread. Additionally I do in fact rent a room to someone else - so there you are. But you know, thanks for the implication I don't live up to my own principles I guess.

Finding a new GP can be damn near impossible. And within 10 years about 30-50% of our GPs will be retired.

Medical practices are resorting to patients seeing the next available GP/Nurse Practitioner, you no longer have "your GP", so there is a break down in continuity of treatment.

I have been an organ donor since I got my licence 40 years ago. My ex boss donated one of his kidneys to a nephew.

But its nice to see you taking money off someone for their right to shelter. Now just imagine they can lease that room out to whom ever they like, and you have no reasonable reason why they can't.

Handle9

5114 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2637481 18-Jan-2021 16:44

gbwelly:

This thread has devolved into two camps, those who are or have been landlords and know what it is like, and those who have not but are convinced they know what it is like.

Truth is, many, if not most landlords are just normal people who paid off their mortgage and thought the logical thing to do would be buy a rental property.

The rent covered the rates, insurance and the mortgage, and the interest on the mortgage wrote off the tax bill and things were pretty much alright.

Then the various earthquakes struck, the councils continue to increase rates, the government introduced ring fencing, the interest rates got real low. The outrageous rents we are seeing are just landlords expecting a property to wash its own face.

It's great fun to pull out the capital gains card at this point, but the reality is no-one is willing to hemorrhage money for 15-20 years waiting for the future payout when the property is sold. Many never plan to sell, they want the property paid off so they can have passive income in the future, in which case the actual value of the property is irrelevant.

It's all a bit awful really but to pin this mess on the landlords is not addressing the real problems.

The tenancy law changes aren't about addressing a shortage of housing, they are to stop a small group of landlords abusing their position.

It may surprise you that I'm a landlord. Being a landlord doesn't have to make you a unable to understand the inequities of the previous tenancy laws.

GV27

2534 posts

Uber Geek

#2637484 18-Jan-2021 16:55

sir1963:

You mean just like other self employed people ?

Someone else starting a business doesn't diminish my ability to start a business. An investor buying a house financed with interest costs they are able to claim deductions for at a time where housing is severely unaffordable does reduce the number of houses available to people who have to cover 100% of their own costs to buy. More renters = more competition for rental stock = higher rents.

antonknee

551 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2637499 18-Jan-2021 17:49

sir1963:
Finding a new GP can be damn near impossible. And within 10 years about 30-50% of our GPs will be retired.

Medical practices are resorting to patients seeing the next available GP/Nurse Practitioner, you no longer have "your GP", so there is a break down in continuity of treatment.

I have been an organ donor since I got my licence 40 years ago. My ex boss donated one of his kidneys to a nephew.

But its nice to see you taking money off someone for their right to shelter. Now just imagine they can lease that room out to whom ever they like, and you have no reasonable reason why they can't.

I know - I’ve ended up looking for a new GP every time my landlord forced me to move. It’s not that hard, I went online to look at reviews and then had to go fill in two forms. In the last 10 years I have always seen the next available practitioner when I attend my GP, so I wasn’t aware that was unusual.

Sure if I have “no reasonable reason why they can’t” then what’s the problem? Still, surely you see there’s a difference between a new tenant moving into your rental property vs a new boarder moving into your spare bedroom. Namely you live with one and merely provide a service to the other.

Also I wonder how well you understand the law changes around assignment of a tenancy - because I get the sense you think a tenant can pick any random person and the landlord just has to go with it. A landlord is not obligated to accept an assignee and in any case has the opportunity to surrender the tenancy instead and take the tenancy to market.

Ant Reformed geek | Referral links: Electric Kiwi Sharesies Stake

sir1963

1242 posts

Uber Geek

#2637514 18-Jan-2021 18:52

antonknee:
sir1963:

Finding a new GP can be damn near impossible. And within 10 years about 30-50% of our GPs will be retired.

Medical practices are resorting to patients seeing the next available GP/Nurse Practitioner, you no longer have "your GP", so there is a break down in continuity of treatment.

I have been an organ donor since I got my licence 40 years ago. My ex boss donated one of his kidneys to a nephew.

But its nice to see you taking money off someone for their right to shelter. Now just imagine they can lease that room out to whom ever they like, and you have no reasonable reason why they can't.

I know - I’ve ended up looking for a new GP every time my landlord forced me to move. It’s not that hard, I went online to look at reviews and then had to go fill in two forms. In the last 10 years I have always seen the next available practitioner when I attend my GP, so I wasn’t aware that was unusual.

Sure if I have “no reasonable reason why they can’t” then what’s the problem? Still, surely you see there’s a difference between a new tenant moving into your rental property vs a new boarder moving into your spare bedroom. Namely you live with one and merely provide a service to the other.

Also I wonder how well you understand the law changes around assignment of a tenancy - because I get the sense you think a tenant can pick any random person and the landlord just has to go with it. A landlord is not obligated to accept an assignee and in any case has the opportunity to surrender the tenancy instead and take the tenancy to market.

From tenancy.govt.nz

Assignment of tenancies – All requests to assign a tenancy must be considered. Landlords cannot decline unreasonably. If a residential tenancy agreement prohibits assignment, it is of no effect."

And perhaps to protect tenants, what you are doing should come under the laws of a boarding house. Only seems fair and reasonable.

sir1963

1242 posts

Uber Geek

#2637517 18-Jan-2021 18:58

GV27:

sir1963:

You mean just like other self employed people ?

Someone else starting a business doesn't diminish my ability to start a business. An investor buying a house financed with interest costs they are able to claim deductions for at a time where housing is severely unaffordable does reduce the number of houses available to people who have to cover 100% of their own costs to buy. More renters = more competition for rental stock = higher rents.

So the plan is..leave school, buy a house and skip the need to rent.

Or is it that you must live with your mum and dad until you can buy ?

How do university students get on ?

Perhaps its privatise health so that all that money can pay off the $300-400 BILLION for all that rental housing.

But plenty of single self employed people have large houses to run their business from, hair dressers, book keepers, osteopaths, physiotherapists, etc etc etc.

tdgeek

22297 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2637521 18-Jan-2021 19:07

duckDecoy:

I'm thumbs up for any resonable improvement that gives tennants more security around being able to stay longer and build a life in a particular house. We didn't move into our own home until our early 30's and lived and many different flats before then. Every single move was due to being kicked out by the landlord because they wanted to sell or have a family member move in [at least that's what they told us]. For one flat we didn't even make it to the 3 month mark before the owner decided they wanted to sell. It was a constant niggle in the back of our minds that any day now we could be flat hunting again. I hated that feeling. I cannot imagine what it would be like if you had school aged children.

Removing that stress from renters would be great in my opinion.

I get that but its their house not yours. Someone said here that housing is a need and a right, I agree. But its not up to an individual to provide another individuals needs and rights.

tdgeek

22297 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2637522 18-Jan-2021 19:13

GV27:

sir1963:

You mean just like other self employed people ?

Someone else starting a business doesn't diminish my ability to start a business. An investor buying a house financed with interest costs they are able to claim deductions for at a time where housing is severely unaffordable does reduce the number of houses available to people who have to cover 100% of their own costs to buy. More renters = more competition for rental stock = higher rents.

Maybe we can remove tax deductibility? Landlords sell up. FHB will buy thats great, as while its debatable its a stock supply problem, than a supply of for sale houses, thats a start. the many that cannot and will not be able to buy and those who choose to remain mobile will now have less houses to rent. Rents go up as there are less rentals that renters. Maybe a step further, make it a poor and troublesome investment to be landlord. We now have very few tenant/landlord problems as we have very few rentals in the market.

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13