Warm / Dry / Clean houses - how should it be done in NZ?

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7616 posts

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#2948007 29-Jul-2022 16:03

neb:
rphenix:

double checking with a flir camera very happy with the install

On the subject of thermal cameras, how many people here own one? Is it an entry requirement for geekdom or something? Seems like half the people I know have one...

We have one at work for checking switchboards, bearings etc on boats.

Mike

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timbosan

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#2948051 29-Jul-2022 18:37

tweake:

timbosan:

So, looping back on the "things to do" topic, I am going to be laying a ground sheet. Questions - is this best done by professionals? If I was to myself, what is the recommendation for the plastic to use? I assume the overlaps needs to be taped down as well as stapled to the posts?

Any other advice?

sorry for late reply i was away.

Good to have you back :-)

I am planning to do it myself, will take a lot longer but at least I know it will be done at a standard I am happy with. Plus getting rid of the stuff under the house is always a good thing to do :-) I will getting under there over the weekend to see how dry / wet it is - now should be a good time to check with all the rain we have had!

timbosan

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#2948053 29-Jul-2022 18:39

BlargHonk:

If you get a copy of NZS4246 in Section 8 it specifies how a ground moisture barrier should be installed, along with thickness of sheet, pile taping, overlaps, etc. Well worth a read if you are going to do it yourself.

Perfect! Thanks @BlargHonk, it even has diagrams! And it makes the specs perfectly clear.

mattwnz

19388 posts

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#2948335 30-Jul-2022 15:03

mattwnz:

Not sure builders are the best advisors on that. Sound is a major benefit. But also it you have a cold room or cupboards next to the room you are heating, then you get heat loss, unless you are heating both rooms. We didn't put insulation in he internal walls and I do regret it because you can easily hear sound from rooms on the other side of the house, compared to a house I lived in that had full insulation, and it doesn't retain heat as well if you are just heating one room, or parts of the house. But if it is a spec home you are unlikely to find interior walls insulated because it is an additional cost.

Scott Brown has just done a video about insulating internal walls for some sound privacy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgGsF_pFqFg&ab_channel=ScottBrownCarpentry

Kickinbac

360 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2948364 30-Jul-2022 16:20

tweake:
gzt: Interesting article here - includes a composite cork/pvc/vinyl tile product:

https://i.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/latest/129354862/passive-housestyle-benefits-for-30-less-than-the-cost-of-a-new-certified-build

some of that build is appalling. those walls are being done back to front. i even asked an professional/expert in the field about it and he basically called it crap and wondered why anyone would do that.

those insulated wall panels are used overseas but on brick walls, not wooden walls. brick doesn't go rotten, wood does.

i highly recommend people steer clear of it or at least do the moisture modelling, which i highly doubt the suppliers provide because its really expensive to do.

I’m assuming (& hoping) that the designer used WUFI modelling for the thermal and moisture transmission considering they used Pro Clima products in the build.

tweake

1045 posts

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#2948425 30-Jul-2022 17:38

Kickinbac:
tweake:

some of that build is appalling. those walls are being done back to front. i even asked an professional/expert in the field about it and he basically called it crap and wondered why anyone would do that.

those insulated wall panels are used overseas but on brick walls, not wooden walls. brick doesn't go rotten, wood does.

i highly recommend people steer clear of it or at least do the moisture modelling, which i highly doubt the suppliers provide because its really expensive to do.

I’m assuming (& hoping) that the designer used WUFI modelling for the thermal and moisture transmission considering they used Pro Clima products in the build.

with NZ building, i would not be surprised at all if they did not. if your trying to do a cheaper build, the last thing you would do is a bleeding edge build. modelling just adds a big cost to something like that. so much of its is back to front, it makes me wonder if that insulated gib was actually in the plans. or was it a case of "we can't find gib but we can get insulated gib, that will do".

tweake

1045 posts

Uber Geek

#2948426 30-Jul-2022 17:44

Kickinbac:

I’m assuming (& hoping) that the designer used WUFI modelling for the thermal and moisture transmission considering they used Pro Clima products in the build.

i hope pro clima do not get their name tarnished by it as they have excellent products and know how.

neb

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#2948441 30-Jul-2022 18:36

mattwnz:
Scott Brown has just done a video about insulating internal walls for some sound privacy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgGsF_pFqFg&ab_channel=ScottBrownCarpentry

He's a bit like XKCD, whenever a building-related question comes up here there's always a Scott Brown video to link to that covers it, or something close to it.

mattwnz

19388 posts

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#2948442 30-Jul-2022 18:39

The good thing is that it relates to NZ, whereas there are lots of other examples overseas. The retrofit double glazing video is a good one and I hope we see more of that done in NZ reusing existing frames, but it is very labour intensive. But many frames haven't been well maintained and full of rot.

timbosan

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#2948478 30-Jul-2022 22:31

mattwnz:

The good thing is that it relates to NZ, whereas there are lots of other examples overseas. The retrofit double glazing video is a good one and I hope we see more of that done in NZ reusing existing frames, but it is very labour intensive. But many frames haven't been well maintained and full of rot.

Interesting note on retrofit double glazing and rot - my double glazing (Thermawood) is in a week or two and they recommended to get the 'RotDoctor' around (guys name is Colin) - he works in conjunction with the Termawood team to be on site and sort out window rot so everything is perfect on the day (he does a site visit beforehand to scope out everything required). It's my home, I have zero desire to move, so happy to make sure everything is done to make the house last another 100 years.

And on Scott Brown, I contacted him early last year about some reno work and he said back then he was so busy he would only take on large work. I love the work he does and the attention to detail, and its nice to see him posting video's of his work on his own house.

timmmay

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#2948508 31-Jul-2022 08:53

I replaced the frames on my old house with PVC and double glazing. I just got sick of painting wood, and window frames can be fiddly to paint.

timbosan

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#3108092 25-Jul-2023 21:10

Hey all, so I have been spending the last year learning a LOT, doing upgrades, and now have a goal for the warm / dry / clean house. Thanks for all the comments so far.

As I noted earlier in this thread, I had retrofit double glazing done . I decided to get double glazing as some of the old frames where so drafty they needed replacing, so just got them double glazzed. Now only 2 to go.

Also at the same time we have the RotDoctor do some major work - replacing 2 window sills (rotted out in the corners), adding draft seals to the front door (the same type on the new windows) and removing and fixing rotten scribers, etc. One of the first things I noticed was the cleaner smell in the rooms with the rot gone. I also noticed over summer that the house was far less drafty, almost 'stuffy' feeling compared to the summer before, when there where noticabe drafts and gaps.

I have also fixed up and replaced the guttering, and removed parts of the concrete driveway, laid paving slabs (so the water can drain away) and adding a channel drain. This fixes the "water pooling against the house" problem that existed with the old driveway. And I can now say I can lay pavers and build retaining walls :-)

Last thing was watching many of Scott Brown's videos, highly recommended as it gives a unique NZ view on reno work, and making a place warm and dry We're Finally Going To Be Warm! Renovating Our 1960s House - YouTube

As for the goal, my new target is the Passive Home standard. I know I will never get this in a 1910 cottage, but it gives me targets, such as extra thick insulation in the roof.

I also have a shortlist.

First, read the book A House Needs to Breathe...Or Does It?: An Introduction to Building Science: Bailes III, Allison A: 9781958711125: Amazon.com: Books

Groundsheet (when it stops raining!)

Ducted heatpump. Underfloor - (BTW anyone door underfloor ducted?) I have of course read Ducted heat pump guide / experience / plus Polyaire Airtouch 4 review (geekzone.co.nz). Have a quote for a Daikin unit

Lossnay Ventilation system with upgraded filters, single room VL1000 model (due to Skillion ceilings)

Double layer insuluation in roof (I can only do parts as the front and back are skillion, so have to stick with the R3.4 I added when we reroofed)

Change underloor from batts to R3.1 Expol

Still to be decided

In wall insulation - the spray type. Still not sold on it.

Add engineer wood over the current floors (which really need a sanded and polyurethaned) to close up all the gaps and get rid of the drafts through the old floors.

Anything else I am missing?

gzt

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#3108096 25-Jul-2023 21:31

There's a problem with extraction fans most people miss. The extracted air must be replaced from somewhere. Extraction doesn't really work as designed without it. Bathrooms with a closed door and no vent or other input. It's hard to get right for several reasons and there's no premanufactured easy solution in the market.

timmmay

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#3108105 25-Jul-2023 22:06

gzt: There's a problem with extraction fans most people miss. The extracted air must be replaced from somewhere. Extraction doesn't really work as designed without it. Bathrooms with a closed door and no vent or other input. It's hard to get right for several reasons and there's no premanufactured easy solution in the market.

I crack open the window, or turn on the positive pressure ventilation system. I've been considering adding another passive vent on the door side of the bathroom so fresh air can be drawn in from outside but probably won't bother.

timbosan

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#3108119 26-Jul-2023 07:08

timmmay:
gzt: There's a problem with extraction fans most people miss. The extracted air must be replaced from somewhere. Extraction doesn't really work as designed without it. Bathrooms with a closed door and no vent or other input. It's hard to get right for several reasons and there's no premanufactured easy solution in the market.

I crack open the window, or turn on the positive pressure ventilation system. I've been considering adding another passive vent on the door side of the bathroom so fresh air can be drawn in from outside but probably won't bother.

This is a good point - my bathroom door is a cavity slider, so has a decent gap under it which allows air to 'pull' through, but I have no idea if that's the right size opening etc. I like the idea of the PP system though.

FYI one of the 'non-essential' items I am looking at is replacement of the bathroom and kitchen extractor fans with something like a Schweigen, moving the fans outside the house. Doesn't solve the air problem, just the noise part.

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