they aint gonna listen as they have made up their mind already

EB255GTX:

 

Kookoo:

 

Having said that, now that I've read it, it still doesn't deal with this scenario. It's very clear about wiring work, adding or replacing, etc. Which to be fair - I'd never do myself anyway.

 

But what I'm doing here isn't wiring in any sense of the word.

 

 

 

 

Stop here. Read my post above - you are not allowed in the meter box, per JohnK's screenshots of the regs.  Further, If you could outline the steps you would take to install the CT, I can point out the unsafe parts, which will show why these rules are in place.

 

You can open the door to the cabinet to reset circuit breakers etc. You can't go behind the panel to where the wires are terminated. I see no problem applying a clamp meter to a wire that is in the open and with good insulation on it and no exposed conductors?

EB255GTX:

 

Kookoo:

 

Having said that, now that I've read it, it still doesn't deal with this scenario. It's very clear about wiring work, adding or replacing, etc. Which to be fair - I'd never do myself anyway.

 

But what I'm doing here isn't wiring in any sense of the word.

 

 

 

 

Stop here. Read my post above - you are not allowed in the meter box, per JohnK's screenshots of the regs.  Further, If you could outline the steps you would take to install the CT, I can point out the unsafe parts, which will show why these rules are in place.

 

Note in those regs: "where live conductors are present". My reading is you can go where the circuit breakers are, but you can't go behind that panel to where the exposed connectors are. The OP is not going near live conductors, is he? Well, as long as an insulated cable is not a live conductor - as insulation is not a conductor. <shrug>

The point is that there is a very real shock risk by doing what the OP wants to do.

We can discuss the exact wording all day, but the big yellow sticker in the meter box, the regulations, and common sense should all combine to say "don't do this".

That aside, no one can help OP trace the wiring in order to know how to clip the CT on, without going into the back of the panel.

EB255GTX:

 

johno1234:

 

Can you point me to where it says that I should not open that cabinet?

 

 

"...does not enter any enclosure where live conductors are likely to be present"   <-- right there, is where you stop, and call a sparky.

 

 

 

Yes, a clip on CT seems like an easy enough thing to do, but electricity can be less straightforward than you may think.  For example, how exactly would you clip the CT on the wire.....What would you do, in what order, as far as the main switch shown in that picture and how/where does the signal wire end of the CT go?

 

you could be up for a shock (dual meaning intended).

 

Ah, I meant opening the door to get to the circuit breakers - not going past the back panel to the other side where the terminals are. Agree that's a no go.

I think we are all agreed - not a good idea unless you understand what you are doing.

In case it seems overly cautious, does anyone (especially OP) want to hazard a guess at the highest voltage you could come into contact with doing this seemingly innocent job?  The answer might shock you.  Yeah, couldn't help the puns.

EB255GTX:

 

Kookoo:

 

Having said that, now that I've read it, it still doesn't deal with this scenario. It's very clear about wiring work, adding or replacing, etc. Which to be fair - I'd never do myself anyway.

 

But what I'm doing here isn't wiring in any sense of the word.

 

 

 

 

Stop here. Read my post above - you are not allowed in the meter box, per JohnK's screenshots of the regs.  Further, If you could outline the steps you would take to install the CT, I can point out the unsafe parts, which will show why these rules are in place.

 

Sure. As you can see from the photo, I've actually put it in already. So, step by step:

- Place the radio module on the outside of the meter box using the built-in magnet

- Put a plastic sheath over the CT wire to protect it from the edges of the meter box door

- Open the box

- Open the clamp

- Guess which red wire is in and which one is out of the meter so that I get the direction of the current right

- Close the clamp over the wire I selected

- Close the meter box

Kookoo:

 

Sure. As you can see from the photo, I've actually put it in already. So, step by step:

 

- Place the radio module on the outside of the meter box using the built-in magnet

 

- Put a plastic sheath over the CT wire to protect it from the edges of the meter box door

 

- Open the box

 

- Open the clamp

 

- Guess which red wire is in and which one is out of the meter so that I get the direction of the current right

 

- Close the clamp over the wire I selected

 

- Close the meter box

 

Where's the other end of the CT wire during this process?

EB255GTX:

 

Where's the other end of the CT wire during this process?

 

It's attached to the radio module which sits outside the meter box.

So you knew the importance of plugging it in BEFORE you clipped the CT around the wire, to prevent getting a shock? Or, if it's permanently wired, you knew why that was important? I suspect not, based on your comments about getting the CT the right way around - likely irrelevant in this case.

EB255GTX:

 

Kookoo:

 

Sure. As you can see from the photo, I've actually put it in already. So, step by step:

 

- Place the radio module on the outside of the meter box using the built-in magnet

 

- Put a plastic sheath over the CT wire to protect it from the edges of the meter box door

 

- Open the box

 

- Open the clamp

 

- Guess which red wire is in and which one is out of the meter so that I get the direction of the current right

 

- Close the clamp over the wire I selected

 

- Close the meter box

 

 

Where's the other end of the CT wire during this process?

 

Opening the door and putting something in there, your hands, tools, CT is all entering the enclosure, going or not going behind the fixed panel is irrelevant.

from your original photo it is easy to figure out what you have done wrong, I'm not going to tell you because as an electrical inspector it would be legally wrong form me to do that, you should not be in the meter panel full stop, and it's very clear you don't know enough about what you are doing.

My only advice is get and electrician to sort this out.

gregmcc:

 

Opening the door and putting something in there, your hands, tools, CT is all entering the enclosure, going or not going behind the fixed panel is irrelevant.

 

from your original photo it is easy to figure out what you have done wrong, I'm not going to tell you because as an electrical inspector it would be legally wrong form me to do that, you should not be in the meter panel full stop, and it's very clear you don't know enough about what you are doing.

 

My only advice is get and electrician to sort this out.

 

I'll take you word on it and get an electrician to have a look.

I just still don't get why. I am not being facetious when I say that. Don't get me wrong - I never do any electrical work at home myself (and it shows). All the wiring in my home was done by a sparky. Heck, I got an electrician to replace a broken lampshade at a rental I own because it meant the pendant had to be unscrewed from the wiring in the ceiling. Better safe than sorry both from safety and from compliance perspectives. That's been my approach with anything electricity related. But in this particular case?

Electricity (Safety) Amendment Regulations 2012, Amendment to Part 5 - Domestic wiring exemption.
"The work to which subclause (2) relates is any of the following:
... (skipping to the relevant part)...
(e)installing, extending, and altering subcircuits (including submains), but only if—
    “(i)the person does not enter (whether directly, or by holding any material or equipment, or otherwise) any enclosure where live conductors are likely to be present; and
    “(ii)the work is tested and certified in accordance with Part 2 of AS/NZS 3000, before being connected to a power supply, by a person authorised to inspect mains work."

I'm not installing, extending, or altering a subcircuit in any sense. I'm not touching mains. In fact, I'm not doing any "electrical work" that falls under any definition of this act. So why is this even relevant?

Kookoo:

 

I'll take you word on it and get an electrician to have a look.

 

<snip>

 

I just still don't get why.  

 

<snip>

 

I'm not installing, extending, or altering a subcircuit in any sense. I'm not touching mains. In fact, I'm not doing any "electrical work" that falls under any definition of this act. So why is this even relevant?

 

First - great attitude, and thank you for a civil discussion.

The "why" is because as a non trained person of expertise in the area, you don't know what you don't know, and that can put you in danger.

Please note - the point of this is to educate:

If the CT wire was not plugged in to the radio transmitter ANY TIME  the CT itself is clamped it over the mains wire, you are risking a) damage to the CT itself, worst case resulting in FIRE, best case a broken CT and/or b) electric shock to yourself.  There could be several thousand volts on the CT signal wires when not plugged in to the radio unit, that’s how an open circuited CT works, and is a known hazard to those that are trained and experienced in the area. It's not at all intuitive, and not something anyone would expect a layman to know....therein lies the danger.

Hey, a dose of realism here - 99% of the time this would be less of an issue than 2 pages of GZ discussion is worth; you’d clip the CT on and be on your way.  But the point here is to educate, and point out that the 1% of the time can have severe consequences.

EDIT: Having a sparky look might be worth it for totally different reasons - for example, you have a seperate hot water heater feed, probably on a timed ripple circuit. A quick look by a sparky will tell you if the wire you chose for the CT includes the HWC feed or not - and that could throw off your monitoring numbers.

Kookoo:

 

gregmcc:

 

Opening the door and putting something in there, your hands, tools, CT is all entering the enclosure, going or not going behind the fixed panel is irrelevant.

 

from your original photo it is easy to figure out what you have done wrong, I'm not going to tell you because as an electrical inspector it would be legally wrong form me to do that, you should not be in the meter panel full stop, and it's very clear you don't know enough about what you are doing.

 

My only advice is get and electrician to sort this out.

 

 

    “(i)the person does not enter (whether directly, or by holding any material or equipment, or otherwise) any enclosure where live conductors are likely to be present; and
   

 

I'm not installing, extending, or altering a subcircuit in any sense. I'm not touching mains. In fact, I'm not doing any "electrical work" that falls under any definition of this act. So why is this even relevant?

 

 

 

i've taken out the stuff that doesn't apply above.

The meterboard is the enclosure, it has live wires (not talking about bare exposed copper, but any conductors that are present), there is no way you can turn everything off so there are no live conductors, as the next point of isolation is the service fuse that the power company has in either the pillar or pole.

You are working on the mains (by clipping at CT around it) so right away this is out of the scope of the home owner exemption (by the way doing *any* electrical work on your rental is outside the homeowner exemption as well).

As soon as you open the meter board up and gain access to the internals that is classed as electrical work.

Did you run the CT wire thru it's own hole in the meterboard? or just route it around the edge of the door? do you understand what happens if the wiring from the CT gets damaged and goes open circuit (not short circuit)?

CT's require a load to keep the voltage induced down, when the wire from the CT are left open circuit, the voltage rises quite high when the load been measure increases, this in turn exceeds the rating of the insulation on the wires and this breaks down and get hot eventually burning out the CT, now you have a fire in your meterboard.......

BTW The Electricity Act 1992 defines electrical wiring work as

electrical wiring work means prescribed electrical work that consists of any of
the following work:
(a) the installation or maintenance of electrical wiring:
(b) the connection or disconnection of fittings to or from electrical wiring

(b) falls in to what you are doing.

so answer is yes, what you are doing is prescribed electrical work, it is outside the homeowner exemption so it MUST be done by an electrician.