Solar options for home in 2022.

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1572 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#3171015 12-Dec-2023 11:07

Hot water is gas infinity system, no HWC present.

Generation will either

Be used

Go to battery

Charge the EV

or sell back to the grid

Second chat\quote on Thursday AM

The little things make the biggest difference.

prob

217 posts

Master Geek

#3176092 29-Dec-2023 01:15

rbensonx:

I've opted for a simple solution with hot water for now which is simply an old school mechanical timer. Basically, heat water from around 3am for a couple of hours and that lasts the two of us all day. Change it up a bit if we have family staying.

I'll follow the link and have a look for sure.

My strategy is loads (eg swimming pool) during the day too as well as topping up the battery. Get 15kw out of the panels at times but usually limited to the inverter limit of 10kw. DC coupled battery enables 10kw to the battery or to load/grid. I like the sungrow hybrid solution I must say

Can you kindly give us more info about your setup and cost?

Paul

k0nkupa

2 posts

Wannabe Geek

#3176372 30-Dec-2023 19:12

I'm planning to opt-in the solar for home. Daily usage is around 15-20kwh and monthly usage is around 500 kwh (or higher) during summer and 800 kwh during winter.

I'm thinking to get a battery as well because no one will be at home during the day so the battery will supply power during the night. Do you guys think it is a good idea? FYI, I'm based in Flat Bush

HarmLessSolutions

949 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

#3176375 30-Dec-2023 19:25

k0nkupa:

I'm planning to opt-in the solar for home. Daily usage is around 15-20kwh and monthly usage is around 500 kwh (or higher) during summer and 800 kwh during winter.

I'm thinking to get a battery as well because no one will be at home during the day so the battery will supply power during the night. Do you guys think it is a good idea? FYI, I'm based in Flat Bush

Check out this calculator to get some idea of what different sized installations will be viable for your requirements and get in touch with a reputable solar installer in your area. PV is definitely worth investing in (particularly if you have an EV or plan to in the future) but you do need to go into it with realistic expectations or you may be disappointed.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

rbensonx

29 posts

Geek

Subscriber

#3176377 30-Dec-2023 19:34

The battery will be the real issue with the payback period. We are a little extreme in that we use about 30,000 kWh a year. Have managed to reduce an $8K per annum bill to $2.4K and have a payback < 10 years with a 10kw hybrid inverter, 13.3 kw of panels and a 25.6 kWh battery. Have learnt a lot and am pretty happy with the outcome despite a sizable upfront investment

k0nkupa

2 posts

Wannabe Geek

#3176382 30-Dec-2023 20:20

HarmLessSolutions:
k0nkupa:

I'm planning to opt-in the solar for home. Daily usage is around 15-20kwh and monthly usage is around 500 kwh (or higher) during summer and 800 kwh during winter.

I'm thinking to get a battery as well because no one will be at home during the day so the battery will supply power during the night. Do you guys think it is a good idea? FYI, I'm based in Flat Bush

Check out this calculator to get some idea of what different sized installations will be viable for your requirements and get in touch with a reputable solar installer in your area. PV is definitely worth investing in (particularly if you have an EV or plan to in the future) but you do need to go into it with realistic expectations or you may be disappointed.

Thanks for the link. The result is quite ok (i guess) the payback time is 14-15 years. If I go with 1-2 batteries i might buy less from the grid.

HarmLessSolutions

949 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

#3176480 31-Dec-2023 10:20

k0nkupa:
HarmLessSolutions:

Check out this calculator to get some idea of what different sized installations will be viable for your requirements and get in touch with a reputable solar installer in your area. PV is definitely worth investing in (particularly if you have an EV or plan to in the future) but you do need to go into it with realistic expectations or you may be disappointed.

Thanks for the link. The result is quite ok (i guess) the payback time is 14-15 years. If I go with 1-2 batteries i might buy less from the grid.

Suggest you use the EECA calculator to see the payback time with or without battery storage, and with/without a HWC diverter.

We have 9.5kW of panels through a 8.2kW inverter which has a 5kW export cap (one phase) and are still looking at ~10 year payback on the cost. No battery, HWC diverter, charge 2x EVs and have (rural home) pumped water and 2x 700L chest freezers. Our last Octopus account was a $5 credit and we ended the month with both EVs charged.

Our choice to not have batteries is because one of our EVs will fill that role once V2G becomes available and viable in NZ. On the face of it even a mediocre SoH Leaf has more storage capacity than equivalent static battery at 1/3 the price and can also provide secondary mobility for us.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

Shindig

1572 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#3179301 9-Jan-2024 10:30

A quote in from another installer, as I had done more research on the hardware.

The Trinia + Sungrow inverter and batteries gets positive reviews on GZ, but is classed as a 'budget' system from the Australian solar installers perspective.

I have opted to get a quote using REC, Fronius and BYD - details below:

Array Potential Power Output - 5.88 kw

Annual Generation - 8,388 kWh

The quote includes my daily consumption of 14kWh with estimate solar potential of 23.0kWh

BYD Battery capacity of 7.68kWh

5.88 kW Solar with Battery Energy Solution including:

14 x REC Solar REC420AA Pure-R solar panels rated at a 5.88 kW DC
maximum output
1 x Fronius Gen24 5.0 Standard inverter rated at 5 kW AC output
1 x BYD HVS 7.7 battery operating at 7.68 kWh cycling capacity
Installed with mounting system and protection devices
Energy monitoring system
Fronius 63A-1 Single Phase smart meter
Firmware update to the Fronius
Install (excludes the scaffolding and edge protection)

Comes out at $31,674.22

We are a lite user of electricity household. The quote is slightly higher because of the hardware selected, unsure if we actually need such a big system and that we could drop down to 12 panels and the BYD 5.1 battery system, which comes in at $27,021.32

Thoughts, comments from you trusted people who have been through this process already.

Thank you

The little things make the biggest difference.

HarmLessSolutions

949 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

#3179302 9-Jan-2024 10:39

Shindig:

A quote in from another installer, as I had done more research on the hardware.

The Trinia + Sungrow inverter and batteries gets positive reviews on GZ, but is classed as a 'budget' system from the Australian solar installers perspective.

I have opted to get a quote using REC, Fronius and BYD - details below:

Array Potential Power Output - 5.88 kw

Annual Generation - 8,388 kWh

The quote includes my daily consumption of 14kWh with estimate solar potential of 23.0kWh

BYD Battery capacity of 7.68kWh

5.88 kW Solar with Battery Energy Solution including:

14 x REC Solar REC420AA Pure-R solar panels rated at a 5.88 kW DC
maximum output
1 x Fronius Gen24 5.0 Standard inverter rated at 5 kW AC output
1 x BYD HVS 7.7 battery operating at 7.68 kWh cycling capacity
Installed with mounting system and protection devices
Energy monitoring system
Fronius 63A-1 Single Phase smart meter
Firmware update to the Fronius
Install (excludes the scaffolding and edge protection)
Comes out at $31,674.22

We are a lite user of electricity household. The quote is slightly higher because of the hardware selected, unsure if we actually need such a big system and that we could drop down to 12 panels and the BYD 5.1 battery system, which comes in at $27,021.32

Thoughts, comments from you trusted people who have been through this process already.

Thank you

We have a Fronius inverter and find it's performance and communication system are excellent. Worth noting that 6kW is the minimum battery capacity for you to get the higher FIT rate from Ecotricity (provided you use an installer that is a Ecotricity Solar partner).

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

Shindig

1572 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#3179354 9-Jan-2024 13:11

Thanks for the reply.

I have reduced the panel count down to 12, as follows.

5.04kW Maximum output

12 x REC Solar REC420AA Pure-R solar panels rated at a
1 x Fronius Gen24 5.0 Standard inverter rated at 5 kW
AC output
1 x BYD HVS 7.7 battery operating at 7.68 kWh cycling
capacity
Installed with mounting system and protection devices
Energy monitoring system
Fronius Battery Upgrade (convert to Hybrid)

$29,954.28

The Sungrow battery has a larger capacity, as well as the Sungrow inverter. Are the REC panels that much better than the Trinia?

The difference in conversations between installers is, LF were really confident the solar generation would cover all our usage and then we have battery\sell back for the excess.

I'm not so sure, or confident with the above solution. Maybe it's down to the conversations and technique of the sell.

For example, to future proof myself. With a 7kW charger, on a full sunny day would the system charge the EV and power the home? Or would it need the additional 2kW from the grid?

What else should I be looking at, all the necessary detail... does it require a spreadsheet?!?!

The little things make the biggest difference.

HarmLessSolutions

949 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

#3179363 9-Jan-2024 13:48

From our experience a 5kW array sited optimally should generate around 7,500kWh/year, obviously with seasonal biases which in our case was close to 900Kwh in January down to ~300kWh in June. That was on BP brand panels that although rated as 5.2kW produced as high as 6kW on occasions. (ETA: We're in Taranaki)

So far as planning forward for EV charging we upsized to 8+kW when we purchased a Polestar2 which was able to utilise the full capacity of our existing EVSE. On the advise of our installer we added an Envex E2 EVSE to our kit which has the ability to limit itself to only PV 'excess'. If you go the same way an Envex will limit itself to only what you can provide it from your solar's maximum capacity. Bear in mind the the Gen24 range max's out at 6kW and that the 'spare' generation you can provide from your inverter is reliant on your background home demands which in our case is around 0.5kW. I've also been advised by multiple installers that drawing power from a static battery to charge an EV is a very bad strategy in terms of long term economics (e.g. battery degradation)

Incidentally we retained our original Juicepoint EVSE to avoid having to get a type 1 adapter for the Envex and also to avoid being controlled by our lines company in regard to charging schedules which I expect will be the case for 'connected' smart EVSEs in the future. Our longer term intention of gaining V2G ability using our Leaf will obviously require a change in our componentry and strategy.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

eonsim

387 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

#3179489 9-Jan-2024 20:32

Shindig:

5.04kW Maximum output

12 x REC Solar REC420AA Pure-R solar panels rated at a
1 x Fronius Gen24 5.0 Standard inverter rated at 5 kW
AC output
1 x BYD HVS 7.7 battery operating at 7.68 kWh cycling
capacity
Installed with mounting system and protection devices
Energy monitoring system
Fronius Battery Upgrade (convert to Hybrid)
$29,954.28

The Sungrow battery has a larger capacity, as well as the Sungrow inverter. Are the REC panels that much better than the Trinia?

The difference in conversations between installers is, LF were really confident the solar generation would cover all our usage and then we have battery\sell back for the excess.

I'm not so sure, or confident with the above solution. Maybe it's down to the conversations and technique of the sell.

That's newer but very similar version of our system a ~5.1kWp, 5kW Fronius, 14x365W REC Alpha, though no battery. We face NNW and get noticeable shading from April through September (mid-day onwards). Best month we've had with the system (Jan 22) was 800kWh, we have generated an average of 5,500kWhs per year over the last 3 years. You can find our output here ( https://pvoutput.org/list.jsp?userid=96957 ) we have very high self consumption (>90%) due to load shifting, a PHEV and Pool, so we export no more than a couple of kWh's a day. Depending on your ability to loadshift usage to the day time I'm not sure that a 5kW system is enough to really keep a battery topped up (especially in winter). So you'll want to switch to a solar plan that either has cheap overnight rates or free hours, so you can use those to charge up the battery but either way it's likely to drag out the payback period (assuming you care about that at all). If you can't load shift then the battery is likely to be filled up in 2-3 hours in the morning in summer then you'll be exporting >20kWh on a sunny day (5kW can do 30-40kWh a day in summer). While in winter you will likely be producing 10kWh a day and just managing to fill up the battery. If you've got the space I'd recommend going for the option with more panels, better to add them during the initial install than later, and no-one complains about to many panels as it just makes the system that much more useful in winter and crap weather.

Of the two quotes, I'd probably slightly favor the lightforce one, the bigger battery will allow you to shift more of your solar power to times when you can use it, seeing it doesn't seem like you have much ability to loadshift currently. While we have the fronius and REC kit our selves the Trina and sungrow stuff LF recommend is still decent quality.

Shindig

1572 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#3179580 10-Jan-2024 11:54

Thank you for the reply @eonsim.

Relooking at the Trinia+SunGrow combination, you are getting more for your money and the reviews suggest that SunGrow is a decent enough mainstream brand. REC and Fronius being the premium.

Taking advice from here with regards to installing 14 panels. The following LF quote has come back:

Estimate Generation: 8,402 kWh

14x Trina 430W Vertex S+ Panel - Translucent & Bifacial NEG9RC.27
1x Sungrow 1-Phase 6kW High Voltage Hybrid Inverter
1x Sungrow 9.6kWh SBR Hybrid Battery System (Emergency Backup Circuits Included)
Sungrow Battery Accessory Pack A-ST-02594
Inspection Inspection
Meter Installation and DG Application Meter Installation
Labour Charges
Scaffolding

$32,606.96

This feels like thee quote!

LF estimate we would sell 70% of our generated energy to the grid, and that Meridian is the company to go with for that. Lock in a 5yr buy back rate.

The little things make the biggest difference.

rbensonx

29 posts

Geek

Subscriber

#3179583 10-Jan-2024 12:05

Looks like a decent setup and price given it includes the battery

The only thing I'd look at is the number of panels. I have a Sungrow 10kw inverter, 25.6kh battery and 13.3kw of panels (REC Alpha as it happens). Perhaps you're restricted in roof space

There's a fair bit you can do to maximise output so if you are interested happy to tell you more. But looks like a good place to start

BTW my yield for 2023 was about 14 MWh. Pretty average summer included.

HarmLessSolutions

949 posts

Ultimate Geek

Subscriber

#3179598 10-Jan-2024 12:52

@Shindig

The additional panels we installed a few months back were SunPower bifacial panels. They are mounted on an angled truss system above an almost flat roof and our installer commented that we could increase their output by ~20% by painting the roof behind them white, which we don't intend doing. It may be a consideration for your situation if the panels are angled off of a roof surface or ground mounted.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

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