Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | 2 | 3
6433 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1570


  Reply # 305729 9-Mar-2010 17:22
Send private message

sleemanj: And where does the kinetic go when everything stops moving :-) Doesn't vanish. Doesn't go back down the wire. It moves the air, which moves the dust, which creates friction etc etc eventually, it's all heat. Isn't it. Same goes for sound. And light.


No. No it isn't.

1216 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 142


  Reply # 305731 9-Mar-2010 17:32
Send private message

NonprayingMantis: 
No. No it isn't.


Neither construct nor destruct energy you can, only convert.  A fan, converts electrical potential into direct heat (from the resistance in the windings, friction of the bearings), sound, and motion.  So tell me, oh enlightened one.  What does the motion change into when it's stopped moving.  What does the sound change into when it stops, well, when those waves deteriorate to nothing.

 




---
James Sleeman
I sell lots of stuff for electronic enthusiasts...


 
 
 
 


6433 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1570


  Reply # 305734 9-Mar-2010 17:51
Send private message

If you have a light on an electric heater (which many do) then the light energy can be converted to chemical energy by, say, a plant photosynthesising.

1216 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 142


  Reply # 305735 9-Mar-2010 17:56
Send private message

NonprayingMantis: If you have a light on an electric heater (which many do) then the light energy can be converted to chemical energy by, say, a plant photosynthesising.


Yes, fair enough, so best ensure you have no plants in your room for maximum heat efficiency!  Better, burn them! 




---
James Sleeman
I sell lots of stuff for electronic enthusiasts...


249 posts

Master Geek
Inactive user


  Reply # 305796 9-Mar-2010 22:00
Send private message

An oil column stores much heat to begin with in the oil so they take a while to heat up; but this means that the variation in surrounding air temperature is significantly less than you'd get with a fan heater; when the element switches off the oil gradually loses its heat to the air.  If you heat a cold room with a fan heater the fan heater will heat the air, the room will get warm, the heater will switch off and the room will cool down again; the oil buffers the temperature.  Because of this buffering, an oil heater keeps a much more even room temperature and this allows the walls and other stuff in the room to match the desired room temperature.  This in turn will make the room more comfortable and, importantly, drier.

A fan heater takes a lot longer to evenly heat a room and therefore it will use much more energy in the long run despite both heaters being '100% efficient'.  Fan heaters are better for instant, short bursts of heat (eg in the bathroom) and are not economic for long term room heating.  They are also noisy obtrusively noisy.

An important part of the heater is the thermostat; more expensive heaters have a more sensitive thermostat which in turn leads to less variation in the room temperature.

So definitely go for an oil column heater.  You generally will find 2 sizes, a 1.2Kw heater and a 2.4Kw heater.  2.4Kw is the maximum power that you can draw from a normal domestic 10amp circuit.  The larger heaters have the option to run at 1/2 power as well.

DeLonghi heaters are excellent; they are rugged, look good, have an excellent thermostat and last for many, many years.  You will find a steady supply of them on TradeMe as more people turn to heat pumps, and if you buy during a hot spell you'll get a better deal than if you wait for winter!

Hope this helps!


3252 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 207

Trusted

  Reply # 305884 10-Mar-2010 10:30
Send private message

sleemanj: And where does the kinetic go when everything stops moving :-) Doesn't vanish. Doesn't go back down the wire. It moves the air, which moves the dust, which creates friction etc etc eventually, it's all heat. Isn't it. Same goes for sound. And light.

Wait!  Now sound and light are heat?!  So, a 1000W amplifier and a 1000W light bulb generate as much heat as a 1000W heater?

1216 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 142


  Reply # 305895 10-Mar-2010 10:57
Send private message

bazzer: 
Wait!  Now sound and light are heat?!  So, a 1000W amplifier and a 1000W light bulb generate as much heat as a 1000W heater?


Yes (photosynthesis excepted).  Conservation of energy, energy in = energy out, sound and light diminish, they diminish to something, eventually, that something is heat.

Where that heat ends up, and if it's very useful to you, is a different question entirely.

This is an academic argument, for practical purposes, choose he heater which best fits your needs.  The manner in which you utilise your electric heater is the biggest way in which you save money, only heat, when you want it to be warm! 




---
James Sleeman
I sell lots of stuff for electronic enthusiasts...


3252 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 207

Trusted

  Reply # 305906 10-Mar-2010 11:47
Send private message

So, you're offering a theoretical explanation to a practical problem? Doesn't sound very useful.

P.S. I think it's obvious that in talking about efficiency, people are really wanting to discuss efficacy, so discussions on conservation of energy are pretty irrelevant.

964 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 90


  Reply # 305913 10-Mar-2010 12:14
Send private message

to the original poster

a 2KW oil heater will use the same amount of electricity as a 2KW fan heater and a 2KW radiant heater and they will all output the same amount of heat. It all comes down to which you prefer which you have already stated is an oil heater so your best bet would be to buy a reputable brand on special if you can.

Briscoes & Mitre10 usually have some good deals on oil heaters (name brands) but they only stock them over the winter months

1216 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 142


  Reply # 305917 10-Mar-2010 12:26
Send private message

The original question posed was: "which oil heater is most economical".
The answer is: none, they are all equally economical.

Practical enough?




---
James Sleeman
I sell lots of stuff for electronic enthusiasts...


4171 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 58

Moderator
Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 305919 10-Mar-2010 12:31
Send private message

Come on guys, lets keep this on topic. No more tit for tat comments.

19282 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2600
Inactive user


Reply # 305920 10-Mar-2010 12:34
Send private message

beforenightfalls: We are looking at getting a new oil heater for this winter as our current one keeps heating up the plug and making some odd noises.

There are many different ones for sale and its important to us that we find that one that will do the job for a Dunedin winter, but at the same time not be too expensive to run. It is for a double sized bedroom, that is by no means large, and would probably be kept on most of the time as our newborn baby will be sleeping there when he/she is born.

What type of oil heater is going to do the best job? Is it a case of more or less fins? Are radiator styles better than traditional types?

Some advice would be appreciated.

Thanks.


Most economical is the one that is never plugged in

249 posts

Master Geek
Inactive user


  Reply # 305943 10-Mar-2010 13:38
Send private message

farcus: to the original poster

a 2KW oil heater will use the same amount of electricity as a 2KW fan heater and a 2KW radiant heater and they will all output the same amount of heat. It all comes down to which you prefer which you have already stated is an oil heater so your best bet would be to buy a reputable brand on special if you can.


It is nothing to do with how they operate when they are on, it is the length of time for which they need to operate to bring a room to the desire temperature and maintain it, how much heat is stored and thus released by cooling when the heater is off, and how much the temperature varies between on times that effects the heaters effciency (ie $ per hour).  For the best efficiency you will need a good brand of oil column heater (oil to store heat and thus release it when the heater's off) and a good thermostat to prevent masive see-saws in temperature.

There is various information available online which confirms this, and if you subscribe to consumer.org.nz you'll find a report there that helps explain this too.

The most efficient form of home heating is central heating; ie liquid filled radiators.

6433 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1570


  Reply # 305999 10-Mar-2010 16:24
Send private message

to answer the OP more directly, the main problem with an oil heater is that it takes so bloody long to heat up.

for that reason the best oil heater is going to be one where you can:

a) set a timer (you can also buy seperate plug in timers) so you can set it to come on, say an hour before you get up or get home

or

b) it has a small bar heater on the side which heats up quick to provide a small burst of local heat

or
c) it has a decent thermostat that actually works and allows you to maintain a constant room temperature without getting ridiculously hot.

261 posts

Ultimate Geek


  Reply # 306010 10-Mar-2010 16:49
Send private message

NonprayingMantis:
the main problem with an oil heater is that it takes so bloody long to heat up


This shouldn't be an issue considering the OP's stated use pattern.

beforenightfalls: 
and would probably be kept on most of the time as our newborn baby will be sleeping there when he/she is born.


So, oil heater is your best bet for all the reasons listed by other posters. The downsides to oil heaters are negated by the fact that you will leave it on.

We have proven with physics that all heaters will consume approx the same amount of electricity for the amount of heat put out.

Size - probably a smaller one due to the smaller room size.

All that is left to decide is a brand. My advice - it doesn't really matter. Get a cheap one, it will most likely last long enough - the worst that could happen is the wheels might come off, which isn't a big deal if you get a small one and don't plan on moving it much.

1 | 2 | 3
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic



Twitter »

Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

New Zealand hits peak broadband data
Posted 18-Jan-2018 12:21


Amazon Echo devices coming to New Zealand early February 2018
Posted 18-Jan-2018 10:53


$3.74 million for new electric vehicles in New Zealand
Posted 17-Jan-2018 11:27


Nova 2i: Value, not excitement from Huawei
Posted 17-Jan-2018 09:02


Less news in Facebook News Feed revamp
Posted 15-Jan-2018 13:15


Australian Government contract awarded to Datacom Connect
Posted 11-Jan-2018 08:37


Why New Zealand needs a chief technology officer
Posted 6-Jan-2018 13:59


Amazon release Silk Browser and Firefox for Fire TV
Posted 21-Dec-2017 13:42


New Chief Technology Officer role created
Posted 19-Dec-2017 22:18


All I want for Christmas is a new EV
Posted 19-Dec-2017 19:54


How clever is this: AI will create 2.3 million jobs by 2020
Posted 19-Dec-2017 19:52


NOW to deploy SD-WAN to regional councils
Posted 19-Dec-2017 19:46


Mobile market competition issues ComCom should watch
Posted 18-Dec-2017 10:52


New Zealand government to create digital advisory group
Posted 16-Dec-2017 08:47


Australia datum changes means whole country moving 1.8 metres north-east
Posted 16-Dec-2017 08:39



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.