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  Reply # 356677 26-Jul-2010 17:30
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I saw someone who had put bubblewrap inside to reduce heat loss in a room.

Im finding an average of 900 watts is all it takes to keep my bedroom warm, so any payback on stuff will be minimal to non existant beyond what I have.




Richard rich.ms

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  Reply # 356747 26-Jul-2010 20:24
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Don't forget that if you seal up windows completely you will find it very hard to get moisture out of the rooms and mould etc may the result, and it may not be as healthy for the kids as airing the room would be. To get rid of the moisture you'll need a dehumidifier, which is expensive to run!

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  Reply # 356777 26-Jul-2010 21:16
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Dehumidifiers are only 300w or so, and make heat too so in winter are basically free to run since thats 300w less heat you have to use the heater for.




Richard rich.ms

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  Reply # 356778 26-Jul-2010 21:16
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Jaxson: Thanks man, much appreciated.

Yeah anything that reduces moisture buildup in the home helps with health benefits, as well as reducing the energy needed for extract fans, dehumidifyers etc, and also it's easier to heat dryer/less humid air as well.

Good to hear you've had a crack already.  Care to discuss what test you did, what you found and what it cost etc?

Cheers.


Nothing scientific:

Walls didn't cry after showering
No more droplets on the roof.
No more mould on the roof (been about 1.5 months) and hardly any mould.
Warmer showers e.g. the whole shower warms up you don't have to move your body into the water to warm up.

FREEZING when you get out of the shower as the heat and steam hasn't been in the rest of the bathroom...

Cost: About $5 for the plastic. $10 for some waterproof tape. about 10 mins to measure, cut and tape into place.

It's starting to fall down now but has proved the point so waiting for the home show to see if they have a deal to hard to miss on a proper shower dome.

Look on trade me forums for more info about shower domes there's one about once a week.






CPU: Intel 3770k| RAM: F3-2400C10D-16GTX G.Skill Trident X |MB:  Gigabyte Z77X-UD5H-WB | GFX: GV-N660OC-2GD gv-n660oc-2gd GeForce GTX 660 | Monitor: Qnix 27" 2560x1440

 

 


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  Reply # 356802 26-Jul-2010 22:19
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richms: Dehumidifiers are only 300w or so, and make heat too so in winter are basically free to run since thats 300w less heat you have to use the heater for.


They make heat in the same way that your fridge makes heat; you can't really be suggesting a dehumidifier as a heat source?  Most of your 300 watts goes on extracting the water, not on 'heating'.

It costs nothing to open a window a fraction!

pih

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  Reply # 356813 26-Jul-2010 22:40
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Been thinking about poor-mans double glazing for some time myself for exactly the same reasons - keep the kids room warmer and to prevent puddles on the window sill! I looked into getting 3-4.5mm acrylic sheets (perspex) to put over the inside, covering as much of the aluminium frame as possible - I figured that the moisture would condense less on the acrylic and less heat would be lost, even though the air gap would only be around 5mm. Clear acrylic is roughly as transparent as glass so could be semi-permanent. I am thinking about ways to fix it such that it is removable and you can still open the window easily - magnetic strip might be the go.

Trouble with acrylic is that it's still quite expensive. I saw a guy on trademe in chch who was selling thin sheets (i think paper-thin?) quite cheaply for this kind of glazing project but he wouldn't ship them.

Haven't done anything yet but I'll watch this thread with interest and post back if I do. Love the thermal imaging camera too btw.

pih

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  Reply # 356818 26-Jul-2010 22:48
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manta:
richms: Dehumidifiers are only 300w or so, and make heat too so in winter are basically free to run since thats 300w less heat you have to use the heater for.


They make heat in the same way that your fridge makes heat; you can't really be suggesting a dehumidifier as a heat source? ?Most of your 300 watts goes on extracting the water, not on 'heating'.

It costs nothing to open a window a fraction!

Do you have any idea what will happen if you left your fridge door open in a well insulated room? The room will warm up, not cool down or even stay the same temp. All the energy that goes into the compressor is effectively turned into heat, while all that the fridge (or dehumidifier) does is shift heat from one place to another. Net effect is heat gain, approximately the same as if you plugged in a heater of the same rating... Actually the room will most likely feel warmer and take less energy to heat than without a dehumidifier, as the air will be drier.

Edit: but you're right about the window, so long as it doesn't undo all the heating you've just done! In my home it isn't s an option for the kids room except on a sunny day during the winter - the little one has a nap midday too, so the heater is often on during the day when it's cold.

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  Reply # 356827 26-Jul-2010 23:13
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One of the other transparent plastic sheet materials can be rolled up which would help with storage and shipping of them.

And with the dehumidifer, you are putting 300w into the room, the only energy coming out is the heat in the water which will be somewhat above the outdoor temperature.

better to put the 300w into a dehumidifier than one of those hopeless econoheat panels that the HRV shysters are hawking.




Richard rich.ms

pih

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  Reply # 356835 26-Jul-2010 23:30
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richms: ...And with the dehumidifer, you are putting 300w into the room, the only energy coming out is the heat in the water which will be somewhat above the outdoor temperature...


Right. I wouldn't normally dwell on details, but hey...  this is GZ after all:

The condensed water will typically be quite cool because that's how it condenses, and the majority of heat that was in the water gets pumped back into the room via the "hot" grille by the dehumidifier, hence there is only negligible heat lost to the condensed water too.  The difference with a fridge, of course, is that the condensed water is usually heated back up on the warmth of the condenser or fins to re-evaporate back into the room (which is why you don't need to empty a drip tray all the time).

On the thin sheets, it was able to be rolled up (in fact the photo in the auction showed a roll) but he said he wouldn't ship because it was too easily damaged - not sure if that meant it was brittle, easily creased or that he was just too lazy to package it for transport :)  Shame, I would have bought several to try.  Much cheaper than a 1200x2400 perspex sheet at anything from $130-180 new...

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  Reply # 356864 27-Jul-2010 02:27
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Yeah, but the water in the tank will warm up to room temperature, so you are chucking out 18-20? water, into a much colder outside, minimal waste anyway since it would take a few mins to recover from.

When I last needed plastics ages back, modern signs came thru

As an alternate, considered corflute?




Richard rich.ms



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  Reply # 356960 27-Jul-2010 10:11
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Hi all,

Will make a few comments but got paid today so will see what that brings later this week...

Dehumidifiers.
I have one and use it prob once a week in a few rooms. Mine is a 350W model. I like being able to close the windows and room off and know I'm pulling moisture from the furniture/closet/beds etc. You have to have the room warm for these to really work, as you want to encourage the moisture to 'move' into the air where you can then catch it out again on the cold coils and into the catch container. Too noisy for use at night and pointless if the rooms not warm as the coils freeze up and it spends most of it's time in defrost mode.

Keeping the window open.
Not really an option if I'm trying to heat a room sorry, and that goes for a DVS/PPV type system too, like a controlled draught I'm paying for when it's 1 deg outside. That said, there are two sides to the environment control, in that a humid/moist room takes more energy to heat, so there's probably a balance. They say if you take the Ventilation out of HVAC, you just get left with a HACk job.

Sealing all the windows.
No I purposely am intending to only seal the frame back over the existing glass, I'm not looking to shrink wrap the entire house. This method will still allow windows to open for ventilation during the day etc, so I will not be covering past the frame. That said, modern aluminium joinery seals extremely well anyway, (you don't often hear whistling windows in the wind etc), and this has caused a lot of the moisture problems we are seeing in modern homes, and the need for ventilation companies/systems etc. (all in my humble opinion). Point is I think my house is fairly tightly sealed unfortunately/fortunately currently anyway.

Corflute.
Yes seriously going to visit warehouse stationary and plastic box type shops for this for the shower test. Strong and cheap last time I checked. Planning on some plastic L shaped lengths which I will cut and double sided tape to shower for the corflute to rest on. Not suitable long term for the outside window test as it's obviously solid and I do want some light to be able to pass through, but for the shower test it will be great. Technically could be a full time install in there for a while, just hope it's not too dark then.

All good discussions, I'll get some window before and after shots too. Hopefully it's all good, but I need some real cold nights to really put it to the test and show up the condensation on the windows problem. Yes heard the shower dome gives you a freezing bathroom, and don't pass wind in the shower either from what I've heard.... Cheers all.

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  Reply # 357160 27-Jul-2010 15:30
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There is transparent corflute - had several sheets of it around tech for a while that got cut up for prototypes of things. It let light thru but acted as a bit of a lens in one direction.




Richard rich.ms



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  Reply # 357592 28-Jul-2010 10:02
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Example of 'real' double glazing, on existing deep wooden frames. 
Not suitable for Aluminium windows, (which have the depth on the outside, not the inside).

http://www.voltscommissar.net/docs/84doubleglazing.pdf


Or the plexiglass option:
http://felixcollins.blogspot.com/2007/09/do-it-yourself-secondary-glazing.html

http://www.awardplastics.co.nz/images/DIY%20%20Double%20Glazing.pdf

Or the real budget of bubble wrap!



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  Reply # 357627 28-Jul-2010 11:41
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And this guys done a whole thesis on this, right here in NZ
http://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CB4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fresearcharchive.vuw.ac.nz%2Fbitstream%2Fhandle%2F10063%2F1248%2Fthesis.pdf%3Fsequence%3D1&ei=Sm5PTJChLISwvgPznfSUAw&usg=AFQjCNH83m3ewWRJzEjicScouj29Oqfphg

Sorry about the crazy link to this pdf file, found it googling thesis double glazing and filtering for NZ results.

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  Reply # 357740 28-Jul-2010 14:39
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http://researcharchive.vuw.ac.nz/bitstream/handle/10063/1248/thesis.pdf

Much nicer link. 238 pages - care to give a summary?




CPU: Intel 3770k| RAM: F3-2400C10D-16GTX G.Skill Trident X |MB:  Gigabyte Z77X-UD5H-WB | GFX: GV-N660OC-2GD gv-n660oc-2gd GeForce GTX 660 | Monitor: Qnix 27" 2560x1440

 

 


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