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John2010
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  #810259 2-May-2013 15:40
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A thought comes from my mentioning Australia; even if you get flows to everywhere else in the house ok you may still have a shower problem if your shower roses/handpieces are made in Australia (or NZ and sold in Australia as Methven are) or Europe, etc where there are legal maximum flows.

Methven ones often come in a pack with several faceplates and flow restricting inserts. I have just pulled the manuals and left over bits out for our ones and by mix and matching inserts and faceplates and testing with a bucket one can set up various flows - they give examples from 9l/min (i.e. for Australia and the NZ sandals crowd) up to 15l/min as being typical.

EDIT: I see gzt has also mentioned the shower head flow restriction matter.

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  #810437 2-May-2013 19:58
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networkn: HAHA Good call:

To fill a 3L Bucket :

Outside Rear External Tap : 12 Seconds
Upstairs Shower Head on : 20 Seconds
Downstairs Shower Head On : 19 Seconds
Outside Front External Tape :


i thought that was pretty good.... until i read it was a 3L bucket, not a 10L bucket!

what do you get from a regular tap inside the house?  like kitchen tap and/or laundry tap?

my 10L bucket test results are here: http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=141&topicid=87364&page_no=2#743358


networkn: 

How long would it normally take to fill a 10L bucket?


regs:

from a tap between the main valve and the pressure reducing valve- around 13 seconds
from a tap that is past the pressure reducing valve (same side as plumbing) - around 22 seconds

not sure if there is a 'normal' measure as it would depend on location etc.  i'm near dominion rd/balmoral rd.




 
 
 
 


networkn

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  #810496 2-May-2013 21:35
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Yah yours is definately bigger than mine :)

I'll wait to see what the plumber has to say. I'd be pretty happy if I could get from 9L to 16L per minute.

networkn

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  #812008 6-May-2013 13:12
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Well the plumber came and the result was pretty good. After cutting into our wall in 3 places we found the on/off tap for the water, and it was slightly not turned enough ON, and that increased it a little. He then said it was only rated to 350KPA and went to get one to 600KPA adjustable (the other wasn't adjustable for pressure) so that got me to 500KPS which was 450KPA at the shower. He also replaced the flexible hose in the shower for a larger one and now..

11 Seconds to fill a 3L Bucket down from 20 seconds and I am MUCH happier. It's still not as good as my inlaws place, but it's reasonable enough to not want to spend significantly more.

I struggled for an explanation why the tap on the side of the house was 25/L at 500KPA but the tap around the other side was 15L/M and 12 upstairs, but he sort of said there would be another limiter but he didn't know where and we might need more pipes or void warranty on tapware to increase it much more.

Interestingly Watercare say I am getting 1250KPA at the street, and 1200 at the house (Not sure where they measured it), but the max I can get is 500KPA at the house, I'll ring them to clarify. The new fitting the plumber fitted (Is that the Toby?) is rated to 600KPA.


grant_k
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  #812063 6-May-2013 14:23
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networkn: Well the plumber came and the result was pretty good. After cutting into our wall in 3 places we found the on/off tap for the water, and it was slightly not turned enough ON, and that increased it a little. He then said it was only rated to 350KPA and went to get one to 600KPA adjustable (the other wasn't adjustable for pressure) so that got me to 500KPS which was 450KPA at the shower. He also replaced the flexible hose in the shower for a larger one and now..

11 Seconds to fill a 3L Bucket down from 20 seconds and I am MUCH happier. It's still not as good as my inlaws place, but it's reasonable enough to not want to spend significantly more.

I struggled for an explanation why the tap on the side of the house was 25/L at 500KPA but the tap around the other side was 15L/M and 12 upstairs, but he sort of said there would be another limiter but he didn't know where and we might need more pipes or void warranty on tapware to increase it much more.

Interestingly Watercare say I am getting 1250KPA at the street, and 1200 at the house (Not sure where they measured it), but the max I can get is 500KPA at the house, I'll ring them to clarify. The new fitting the plumber fitted (Is that the Toby?) is rated to 600KPA.


Wow what a long running saga this has been!  By my calculations you are now getting 16L/min out of the shower hose, which should be plenty.  In many houses, the internal copper or plastic plumbing is only 12mm, and sometimes with copper, there are sharp bends which constrict the flow.  Obviously it's not worth ripping all your walls apart to find those bottlenecks, so you'll probably have to live with what you've got.

The TOBY is normally located in the water meter box, right behind the meter itself.  I am perplexed that there is another tap inside your wall, hidden away without an access cover being provided.  It sounds like very dodgy plumbing work to me.

Personally, I wouldn't give too much credence to the pressure figures.  Flow rate is what matters, and you seem to have got a pretty good result now.  Keep in mind that the more flow you have available, the higher your water charges are going to be, and if your kids haven't yet hit their teenage years, you could be in for a nasty surprise.  One year I remember our water charges hitting $1200 when we had 3 teenage kids in the house.





networkn

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  #812106 6-May-2013 15:38
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Yup I am pretty much happy now, more curious re watercares quoted figures. Hard to believe that in the end it was reasonably easily sorted, though I think the plumber for 2 hours + materials might be $500. (Agreed to an $83 cover for the water tap inside the house once the repairs for the gib are completed.

gzt

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  #812503 7-May-2013 09:21
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15L/M from a shower head is above the average so it is kind of ok. If things are still less than satisfactory there you could check the diameter of the shower hose. I do not know the standard sizes, but there is a small one and a large one.

Imho you would not want to go above 500KPa because that is the maximum rating of most tapware. You could photo your tapware and check the specs in the boxes down at m10mega or somewhere like that.

Interesting that "the tap on the side of the house was 25/L at 500KPA but the tap around the other side was 15L/M and 12 upstairs". Bear in mind that individual taps can have flow restrictors fitted and that is something you might want to verify one way or the other.

After that, if you could work out the plumbing plan that might help narrow down the possible location of a line restriction of some kind intended or otherwise.

Also I'd consider tracking the plumber that did the install, bringing them round for a chat at your expense and see if any light bulbs light up during that process.

 
 
 
 


networkn

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  #812504 7-May-2013 09:24
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To be honest after 3 showers I think I can live with what I have, it's pretty good and close enough it's not worth spending another sum of money to improve just a little :)

Thanks to everyone who contributed and offered advice it was much appreciated and I learned a fair bit.

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