LED Lighting

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Reply # 687875 18-Sep-2012 20:19

dontpanic42: I haven't been keeping up with this thread recently, and can't really be bothered trawling through 27 pages (did do a quick search which netted nothing), so I?apologise?if this?has?already been mentioned.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/limemouse/lifx-the-light-bulb-reinvented

Admittedly, it's a pretty damn expensive light bulb, but it looks like it could have some interesting applications.

Not that expensive really if you were looking at putting in some kind of lighting control system anyway.

I've also seen some led fittings that run on power over Ethernet so can be installed by anybody, no need for an electrician.
Since each light fitting will be on your network they too can be controlled from your smartphone.

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networkn

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Reply # 687878 18-Sep-2012 20:26

I paid $50 for the light bulbs I just bought (LED) which are admittedly brighter than these, but don't have any smarts. I'd buy these in a heart beat if they weren't limited to just 60w.

I especially like the sunrise, sunset, something executed really well at the Mandarin Oriental hotels I have stayed in.

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richms

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Reply # 687913 18-Sep-2012 22:26

Is that smartphone lamp just RGB or are they actually putting something else in there to get a decent white as well? The page is long and light on details.

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dontpanic42

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Reply # 687917 18-Sep-2012 22:42

richms: Is that smartphone lamp just RGB or are they actually putting something else in there to get a decent white as well? The page is long and light on details.

In the video there is a big RGB written on the blackboard behind the guy, and he mentions that the money from the kickstarter campaign will go towards "1000's of RGB, LED lamps".
I'm going to assume it's solely RGB based. This doesn't necessarily mean the type of light output will definitely be gimmicky in nature, but I'm guessing there is a high chance of that.

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Reply # 687921 18-Sep-2012 23:05

Ok, I did a ctrl-F on the page and searched for white and found nothing ;)

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Reply # 687950 19-Sep-2012 00:28

http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/09/18/kickstarter-vaporware-of-the-day-lifx-edition/

Hmmm... this article raises a few very valid questions re: the LIFX LED bulb.

Skolink

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Reply # 688147 19-Sep-2012 12:53

It is indeed a long page, but I didn't see any mention of light output (in Lumens). That is by far the most important issue. There are plenty of inexpensive IR-remote-controlled RGB LED bulbs on dx.com, all of them far too dim to use for general lighting.

I have been wondering what the engineering reason is that GLS LED luminaires are blue+phosphorescence instead of R+G+B. Maybe simplicity of power supply/current control, you'd have to have 3x voltage/current outputs with RGB, or wasteful series resistance on the red and green.

oxnsox

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Reply # 688164 19-Sep-2012 13:41

Skolink: I have been wondering what the engineering reason is that GLS LED luminaires are blue+phosphorescence instead of R+G+B. Maybe simplicity of power supply/current control, you'd have to have 3x voltage/current outputs with RGB, or wasteful series resistance on the red and green.

Patents??

Skolink

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Reply # 688269 19-Sep-2012 16:07

oxnsox:
Skolink: I have been wondering what the engineering reason is that GLS LED luminaires are blue+phosphorescence instead of R+G+B. Maybe simplicity of power supply/current control, you'd have to have 3x voltage/current outputs with RGB, or wasteful series resistance on the red and green.

Patents??

If it is possible to patent the concept of using red,green and blue LEDs on a lamp to produce white, what hope is there?

richms

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Reply # 688316 19-Sep-2012 17:04

Skolink: It is indeed a long page, but I didn't see any mention of light output (in Lumens). That is by far the most important issue. There are plenty of inexpensive IR-remote-controlled RGB LED bulbs on dx.com, all of them far too dim to use for general lighting.

I have been wondering what the engineering reason is that GLS LED luminaires are blue+phosphorescence instead of R+G+B. Maybe simplicity of power supply/current control, you'd have to have 3x voltage/current outputs with RGB, or wasteful series resistance on the red and green.

the colouring of the direct LEDs from the red green and blue is too peaky to be used for general room illumination, some colours are bright and others really dull under it, worse than a cheap nasty fluro by a long way.

All things like this are done with switching constant current drivers, they are under a dollar on a board ready to put into a MR16 fitting so I cant imagine the components per channel are more than a few cents.

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Jimmy22

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Reply # 688326 19-Sep-2012 17:11

apart from all that , its lazy/ convenient and less efficient than the std LED bulb , using power 24/7 awaiting the next command. small power use perhaps but times 24 lights in the house = ?? Not a step forward

network switch able relay .... maybe , this concept is a step backwards for the planet. Its cool but not smart

Niel

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Reply # 688440 19-Sep-2012 20:58

Just like the cheap Elto (and other) digital plug-in timers which consume 7W because it has a cheap shunt regulator. The power consumption of a timer falls outside the scope of energy efficiency requirements since the timer is always active and itself never goes to a standby mode... Electro-mechanical timers are far more efficient than digital timers.

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richms

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Reply # 688443 19-Sep-2012 21:03

The cheap timers are like the sensor lights, they use a capacitor as the series impedance to drop voltage, so there is current but the power factor is so low that the actual power is stuff all. Dont rely on an equally cheap elto power meter to measure them. But yeah, the idea of putting many of these things into a multi lamp fitting is retarded. Mind you so is putting in 20 power supplies in ES bases for LED retrofits of the conventional kind.

Perhaps once a standard base is established for LED replacements without an inbuilt power supply then there will be people retro-fitting chandilears to take them, but till then its just a case of putting in 20 little cheap power supplies with LED's attached.

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Niel

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Reply # 688503 19-Sep-2012 23:39

The cheap Elto digital timers have some capacitance, then a power resistor, then a 33V Zener diode. The Zener voltage is then regulated down to I think 12V for the relay and 5V (or 12V) for the timer IC. The capacitor is for a single component they can swap out between 120V and 240V product variants without dissipating too much heat. I have repaired all my cheap Elto timers when the Zener diode blows.

Another reason for multiple components in series is for safety qualification where any one component can be short circuited and the product must not catch fire or become dangerous.

I do not own a cheap power meter, at work I have a digitally programmable 300VA mains power supply ;-). (Which reminds me I've got a couple of cheap power meter someone asked me to have a look at, should return them.)

Regarding LED lights, my "dream" is to make LED down lights without power supplies and have one central power supply per room. Still use the normal mains wiring, just current regulated and low voltage instead of mains.

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richms

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Reply # 688597 20-Sep-2012 10:01

The thing is if it really was 7 watts or so, then it would be hot like a 7 watt nightlight - similar to the heat output of a laptop powerbrick etc. The ones I have used when friends have been on holiday have been stone cold to the touch, so cant be actually using all 7 watts.

Ive never got why they use low voltage relays in things like sensor lights and timers when they could use a 240v coil one, and a cheap tiny triac driving it and make the power supply much much smaller.

Richard rich.ms

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