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  #567982 12-Jan-2012 15:23
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i saw something just recently that said one of the main components for solar panels had recently plummeted in cost, and to expect their use to increase as overall costs reduce. i think overall cost was to drop to 1/3 of what it is now. forget where i saw this.




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  #568869 14-Jan-2012 17:56
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If you're not ready to put CFLs or LEDs into standard bayonet and screw fittings then I recommend the Philips EcoClassic halogens. They're more expensive than standard incandescents but they use 30% less electricity and last longer.

There is a lack of good LEDs for general lighting available in retail in New Zealand. By good I mean lights in the 800 lumens and up range. Most of the LEDs available in the shops are weak or both weak and relatively inefficient.

http://web.archive.org/web/20110719111918/http://www.efi.org/factoids/lumens.html

Also watch for the colour temperature kelvin. Some lights have wild kelvin ratings that in practice will drive you mad.

I've got Osram and Philips LEDs, I wouldn't buy Osram again. They're slower to turn on and have weird colour temperatures.

They warn not to put the bayonet and screw replacement lights in "enclosed" fixtures, how enclosed do they mean by "enclosed"? Nearly all fixtures are enclosed to some degree.

 
 
 
 


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  #568881 14-Jan-2012 18:35
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Those philips eco classics are still a dirty orange tho, they are a little better than an incandesent but not much. No way near the colour of a true 12v halogen.

I have now had 2 of them pop and take out the dimmer, I assume that is because inside they are just the same crap lamp that a GU10 based MR16 spotlight has in them which are well known for flashing over and blowing stuff when the lamp finally burns out.




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  #568903 14-Jan-2012 20:28
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bfginger:
I've got Osram and Philips LEDs, I wouldn't buy Osram again. They're slower to turn on and have weird colour temperatures.

What Philips LEDs have you got?

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  #568907 14-Jan-2012 21:03
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Skolink:
bfginger:
I've got Osram and Philips LEDs, I wouldn't buy Osram again. They're slower to turn on and have weird colour temperatures.

What Philips LEDs have you got?


Don't osrams have different levels of bulbs. eg a budget one, and a more expensive one. I must admit that my osrams do take a while to reach full brightness, but they are over 10 years old, and maybe using older technology from the newer ones..

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  #568909 14-Jan-2012 21:08
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bfginger: If you're not ready to put CFLs or LEDs into standard bayonet and screw fittings then I recommend the Philips EcoClassic halogens. They're more expensive than standard incandescents but they use 30% less electricity and last longer.

There is a lack of good LEDs for general lighting available in retail in New Zealand. By good I mean lights in the 800 lumens and up range. Most of the LEDs available in the shops are weak or both weak and relatively inefficient.

http://web.archive.org/web/20110719111918/http://www.efi.org/factoids/lumens.html

Also watch for the colour temperature kelvin. Some lights have wild kelvin ratings that in practice will drive you mad.

I've got Osram and Philips LEDs, I wouldn't buy Osram again. They're slower to turn on and have weird colour temperatures.

They warn not to put the bayonet and screw replacement lights in "enclosed" fixtures, how enclosed do they mean by "enclosed"? Nearly all fixtures are enclosed to some degree.



Yes the lack of LEDs is bad. I asked in the 2 big chain lighting stores, and they basically had nothing suitable to substitue normal lights. If you go to one of the lighting specialists, they can get them in, but they cost an arm and a leg. At an expo, one downlighters was about $200. They said you would save that over 10 years. Unfortunately NZ can be slow with new building technologies and materials as we are such a small market.

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  #568921 14-Jan-2012 21:43
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And even when you spend that much you can often get crap, with visible PWM powersupply ripple, or even worse some are still just putting the AC into a rectifier and calling that a power supply so they flicker with the mains like cheap LED Xmas lights.




Richard rich.ms

 
 
 
 


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  #568922 14-Jan-2012 21:47
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richms: And even when you spend that much you can often get crap, with visible PWM powersupply ripple, or even worse some are still just putting the AC into a rectifier and calling that a power supply so they flicker with the mains like cheap LED Xmas lights.


You can pick up LED lights, to fit into existing fittings on Deal Extreme, but I am not sure the quality and effectiveness. But at least they are more affordable, and some get good reviews. Household LED lightsn that are a good price for a new house are something I am on the hunt for.

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  #569021 15-Jan-2012 10:42
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Let's face it, LED room lighting isn't quite there yet. Give it 2 years and then take another look.

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  #569027 15-Jan-2012 11:05
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Timmay:Let's face it, LED room lighting isn't quite there yet. Give it 2 years and then take another look.
Your wrong IMO, except on price.

I use these 50w Halogen replacements from Philips:

MASTER LEDspot MR16 Dimmable Version 2

The MAsTER LEDspot MR16 integrates a high
power LED light source with an innovative
thermal management system to provide a long
life and high output solution as an energy-efficient
replacement to the standard halogen MR16. This
lamp is available in a range of colours and beam
angles as either a 7W, to replace a 35W halogen,
or a 10W, to replace a 50W halogen. Functionally dimmable and able to
be retrofitted on existing circuits with unique optiDrive technology, it is
suitable for a wide range of spot and general lighting applications

I have installed these into a family Bach, and I am very surprised with the output of the lamps... You cannot tell the difference between this and a normal Halogen 50w lamp. These also have mini fans built into the base of the lamps, which are silent. (Version 1 was noisy as hell) (I have installed, supplied thousands of halogens over the years)

Here is a sample, (bear in mind it was taken with my Nexus S)


 

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  #569109 15-Jan-2012 14:34
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Problem is that the 50w halogens have never really being suitable for room lighting to start with unless you have 10's of them which is bloody inefficiant, so in those cases there is a viable upgrade path, but there is still nothing GLS sized that has a uniform output, no ugly heatsinking and a decent light output to compete with a standard 100 or 150w lamp.

Is there any air path thru the philips ones? Many of the cheaper ones have a heatsink that has gaps between the 2 sides of the fitting, so would be useless in a sealed bathroom fitting and create drafts in a normal downlight fitting. Also is the philips suitable for insulating over or just abutted like a halogen in a heatcan?




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  #569225 15-Jan-2012 20:55
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richms: Problem is that the 50w halogens have never really being suitable for room lighting to start with unless you have 10's of them which is bloody inefficiant, so in those cases there is a viable upgrade path, but there is still nothing GLS sized that has a uniform output, no ugly heatsinking and a decent light output to compete with a standard 100 or 150w lamp.


note: Philips do a Par38 LED lamp to rival a 75W incandescent lamp. And the masterLED range including the Par38 and MR16 lamps do not have big 'ugly' heat sinks.


Is there any air path thru the philips ones? Many of the cheaper ones have a heatsink that has gaps between the 2 sides of the fitting, so would be useless in a sealed bathroom fitting and create drafts in a normal downlight fitting. Also is the philips suitable for insulating over or just abutted like a halogen in a heatcan?


The sample picture I showed you is a LED lamp in a IP54/56? rated outdoor fitting, so little or no air flow exists between inside and out. This was designed straight from the manufactures specs, and I have a 24 month manufacture warranty on the lamps... so if one blows within 2 years I get another one to replace it free of charge.

I have wired many a house, and from my experience, GLS (BC or ES) type light fittings are only ever used in spec homes, or homes that are on the cheap. The difference in price between a house load of ES type downlights and/or battern BC fittings, and a house with only Halogen lamp style downlights is less than $1000.

Yes a load of 50w halogens may be more inefficient, but you also get more 'good, usable' light in the room compared to a single source ES/BC fitting. It sounds like you are anti Halogen fittings, when in reality, they can be better if designed properly.

Back to LED, in NZ, Yes they are more expensive, but IMO they have now matched incandescent lights in terms of output. It is now solely a matter of cost.



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  #569227 15-Jan-2012 21:00
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Well if they had LED bulbs that fitted a standard downlight screw fitting, and produced reasonably similar light, I'd be keen to know about it. I am going to the USA in a few days, I can bring a few back and save on freight and import duty. Cheers

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  #569228 15-Jan-2012 21:02
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richms:  Also is the philips suitable for insulating over or just abutted like a halogen in a heatcan?


As far as I am aware, the insulation can go up to the heatcan, but not over it unless you get a lower rated output LED lamp.

One note: the 50W lamps are very expensive. $90-100 trade, but with a 2 year warranty.

http://www.lighting.philips.co.nz/pwc_li/nz_en/lightcommunity/assets/Philips_Trade_LED_range_2011.pdf 

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  #571900 22-Jan-2012 14:18
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Skolink: 
What Philips LEDs have you got?

Philips Vision LED Globe E27. The heatsink becomes far too hot to touch, but the Osram does the same thing too in a completely unenclosed fitting after some minutes.

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