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Master Geek
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Topic # 189554 4-Jan-2016 11:44
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Can anyone using Flip please tell if they are able to ping 8.8.8.8? I cannot.

It is not actually causing any problems (furthermore, DNS requests against 8.8.8.8 work fine), but I am just wondering why would pinging Google DNS be blocked? I can ping it using other internet providers but not Flip. Their support is reluctant to look into it as they do not see it as an issue.

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  Reply # 1460965 4-Jan-2016 11:51
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I'm pretty sure ICMP is blocked to 8.8.8.8 and 4.4.4.4 and has been for a couple of years.

I can't ping it here in the US right now (in an airport lounge), so can't comfirm conclusively that's the case everywhere as it could just be this connection.


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  Reply # 1460967 4-Jan-2016 11:59
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Works on 2degrees fiber.

ping 8.8.8.8

Pinging 8.8.8.8 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=36ms TTL=57
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=35ms TTL=57
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=37ms TTL=57
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=35ms TTL=57

Ping statistics for 8.8.8.8:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 35ms, Maximum = 37ms, Average = 35ms

ping 8.8.4.4

Pinging 8.8.4.4 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 8.8.4.4: bytes=32 time=37ms TTL=57
Reply from 8.8.4.4: bytes=32 time=36ms TTL=57
Reply from 8.8.4.4: bytes=32 time=35ms TTL=57
Reply from 8.8.4.4: bytes=32 time=35ms TTL=57

Ping statistics for 8.8.4.4:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 35ms, Maximum = 37ms, Average = 35ms




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  Reply # 1461007 4-Jan-2016 13:22
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I've always assumed 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4 to be globally ping-able (ICMP echo).

Ping statistics for 8.8.8.8:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 40ms, Maximum = 40ms, Average = 40ms

Ping statistics for 8.8.4.4:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 40ms, Maximum = 42ms, Average = 41ms

Assuming you haven't in some way redirected those Google Public DNS server addresses in your own config (many do for the purpose of setting up Chromecast etc.), it could be that your ISP is redirecting DNS lookups to their own servers. For example, if you ping/query whoami.akamai.net what server address does it resolve to?

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  Reply # 1461016 4-Jan-2016 13:43
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Or, since 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4 redirect to different servers depending on where you are, it seems likely that some are responding to ICMP and some aren't.

Cheers -N






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Master Geek
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  Reply # 1461017 4-Jan-2016 13:45
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it could be that your ISP is redirecting DNS lookups to their own servers. For example, if you ping/query whoami.akamai.net what server address does it resolve to?


dig whoami.akamai.net +short
103.9.40.1

Does that mean Flip is redirecting DNS lookups?

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  Reply # 1461025 4-Jan-2016 14:06
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Greendrake:

dig whoami.akamai.net +short
103.9.40.1

Does that mean Flip is redirecting DNS lookups?
Assuming that query was made against 8.8.8.8 or 8.8.4.4 then yes it's likely.



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Master Geek
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  Reply # 1461037 4-Jan-2016 14:37
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Assuming that query was made against 8.8.8.8 or 8.8.4.4 then yes it's likely.

Making the query explicitly against 8.8.8.8 produces different result:

dig whoami.akamai.net +short
54.184.36.28
dig @8.8.8.8 whoami.akamai.net +short
74.125.80.73


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  Reply # 1461038 4-Jan-2016 14:39
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The DNS resolution behaviour you are seeing may be related to their Safe Mode feature included in their plans. The feature is described on their website as "Safe Mode creates a first line of defence which blocks R16+ and illegal sites according to NZ law." 



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  Reply # 1461039 4-Jan-2016 14:43
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yitz: The DNS resolution behaviour you are seeing may be related to their Safe Mode feature included in their plans.

Good guess, but I've got that feature turned off in my account settings. As well as any blocking.
Would be nice to hear some comments from Flip guys here.

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  Reply # 1461068 4-Jan-2016 15:41
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Yes, you can't ping 8.8.8.8 & 8.8.4.4 on Flip, if you want to ping test something local you can use "ping.flip.co.nz". Here is why, as I know you guys love to know what's under the hood -
These addresses are redirected to load balanced local DNS clusters. this was done for many reasons including safe mode, global mode (people did not have to block them with Roku for example), BYO routers (prevents the "my YouTube is slow due to my friend helpfully changing the router to 8.8.8.8 as the previous ISP's DNS servers sucked). Yes some purists may get all wound up about this sort of thing, but the bottom line is local DNS servers work far better than remote generic ones as long as they are built properly (and Flip's are). This killed off a whole category of customer issues and has been running very nicely for the last couple of years. If you have Safe Mode turned off there is no blocking whatsoever on DNS or web traffic.

On a side note, there is no longer any P2P control on Flip's plans, that will disappear from the marketing guff in the coming weeks.






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  Reply # 1461072 4-Jan-2016 16:04
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[eyebrows raised almost off top of forehead!]

Oh, that's interesting.

Cheers - N


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  Reply # 1461124 4-Jan-2016 18:54
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noroad: [snip] If you have Safe Mode turned off there is no blocking whatsoever on DNS or web traffic.



Greendrake:
yitz: The DNS resolution behaviour you are seeing may be related to their Safe Mode feature included in their plans.

Good guess, but I've got that feature turned off in my account settings. As well as any blocking.
Would be nice to hear some comments from Flip guys here.


So if the OP's got all that turned off, what's the issue?



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Master Geek
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  Reply # 1461131 4-Jan-2016 19:09
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 So if the OP's got all that turned off, what's the issue?

My understanding is that, as noroad said:
These addresses are redirected to load balanced local DNS clusters. this was done for many reasons including safe mode, global mode

which happens to all Flip customers regardless of what they have turned off.

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  Reply # 1461141 4-Jan-2016 20:10
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If it's not the safe mode thing, it could be something left over from global mode, as you need to block 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4 for netflix/chromecast to work when faking country

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  Reply # 1461143 4-Jan-2016 20:12
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So if your ISP sneakily redirects traffic its ok, but if someone else does it then its hacking and wrong? Ok. Good to know I should take flip off the list for ISPs to consider.




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