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29 posts

Geek
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  Reply # 883439 23-Aug-2013 15:12
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expression:
gunnerpc:
StarBlazer: Wow - I'm really glad you doom merchants weren't around when Mr Bell was working on his telephone - we'd still be sending stuff by Morse Code or worse - paper!!!

Wishing the company would go bust and similar comments are childish and unhelpful.  If you don't like the service, state why you don't and what you would do better.  To launch to 10s if not 100s of thousands of people on one day in a very narrow window of connection is no small feat which I think they pulled off reasonably well.  Is it perfect? No.  Will it get better? Yes.  The Android app has flawless quality.

If you want to complain, write to Sky and tell them how disappointed you are that they were unable to secure the rights to the EPL.  Ask them why they are not able to offer a service for EVERY game in the EPL.  Also ask why they are not able to provide a service where you can select which sports you want and only pay for that rather than paying for 20+ sports that you are not interested in! 

Don't give me the "there's not enough space on the satellite" cop-out.  They already have iSky as a delivery platform there was nothing stopping them from extending that service in the same way that PLP have delivered. 

Sky won't do it because they are a greedy monopoly.  I'm happy to support anyone who challenges that.

The status-quo has to be removed - we need genuine options other than Sky.

This is where it starts with companies like PLP.

</rant>


For me this analogy isn't very good. 
Bell was creating something that wasn't otherwise available. A product that could and did change the world. Voice over a wire. 
PLP have taken a product that already exists (TV over internet), dumbed it down, and broadcast it to the masses in the most cost effective way for them.
They didn't take a product that wasn't here and create it. They didn't even take a product that existed and made it better. 
We all know its possible to broadcast better quality than they are over the internet. But will they? Maybe. When? Soon, When - Ah no one really knows. They know, but will they tell us? NO. 

Trust me, they are just as greedy as sky, if not geedier in my opinion. Like for like @ 250.00 for a season you One sport for 21 per/m. Sky you get/got all sports for 26 per/m. 

I do agree, I would love to pick and choose what I subscribe to. 
Has PLP broken up a monopoly? No they havent, they have created a Duopoly. 
Sommet Sport, they have broken up a monopoly. Football, free to air. Good on them. 
And Igloo, where you can choose to subscribe to certain channels. 
Thats where it starts. Not with PLP. 

I'm all for the internet, its great. But tell me, whats wrong with the current way we get TV?
Why would a company want to broadcast only via the internet? Its cheaper maybe, and they don't need to invest in all that expensive broadcasting equipment. 

If TV over the internet is going to be the way we all watch TV for the future, who is driving this demand? If the demand was really that strong, wouldn't all of the networks, have a lot more invested in it than they currently do. Wouldn't they be pushing us that way, rather than having it as a convenient alternative for us to watch reruns. 
I know they are always adding services, but are they doing for convenience for us, or so they can try something out, that isn't quite ready yet. 

Why couldn't PLP broadcast in HD and SD, over the airwaves AND online, even in conjunction with IGLOO or via their own set top box. Or on a freeview channel, with ads. 
I would buy their set top box, if it meant I could get HD, and didn't have to rely on my intermittent internet, and WIFI. I would pay $200.00 for their set top box. 

For me, the infrastructure of the internet, especially in NZ, isn't ready yet to be the only way someone can get access to television shows. 


Completely disagree.

Investment in IPTV is growing. The commonly quoted statistic is that a third of internet traffic in America is from Netflix. Cable companies are beginning to offer access to channels over the internet in America. Sky in NZ are preparing to launch Sky Go. It is all driven by the consumer, who ultimately wants more control over the content they want to watch.

As has been mentioned previously on several occasions, capacity on broadcast technology over airwaves is almost full. The internet presents a unique opportunity to get around this.

Regarding a set top box, that requires a large investment on their part ultimately culminating in additional costs for consumers. Its more cost effective to release a plethora of apps for different devices offering access to the service.

Internet infrastructure has been improving rapidly in New Zealand for years. Data caps are growing exponentially and the availability of UFB is increasing.


I live in Pt Chev, Auckland. I cant get UFB until June 2014, I cant even get VDSL right now. I live in a fairly central Auckland suburb and I cant get these.
Imagine all of these people that live outside of the main cities and in rural NZ, they don't stand a chance. 
Didn't Netflix come to NZ recently and say, no thanks, your infrastructure isn't good enough?

My point is simply, I (and Netflix) this we (NZ) isn't ready yet for this to be the only way to get media. 



229 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 883444 23-Aug-2013 15:19
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gunnerpc: I live in Pt Chev, Auckland. I cant get UFB until June 2014, I cant even get VDSL right now. I live in a fairly central Auckland suburb and I cant get these.
Imagine all of these people that live outside of the main cities and in rural NZ, they don't stand a chance. 
Didn't Netflix come to NZ recently and say, no thanks, your infrastructure isn't good enough?

My point is simply, I (and Netflix) this we (NZ) isn't ready yet for this to be the only way to get media. 


Like you I can't get UFB until late next year, however I am fortunate enough to be within range of VDSL (albeit only just), as are approximately 60% of ADSL users. Apparently the average broadband speed in NZ is 11.5Mbps, more than enough to stream 3 PLP games concurrently.

Rural users however, are an exception, although coverage is increasing for them too.

Edit: Netflix did say that almost 2 years ago. The New Zealand internet landscape has changed a lot since then.

 
 
 
 


956 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 883446 23-Aug-2013 15:19
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gunnerpc: Didn't Netflix come to NZ recently and say, no thanks, your infrastructure isn't good enough?

I believe it was because they didn't see demand because of the data caps.  The data caps are increasing and if PLP can prove that there is a domestic market for streaming the I'm sure Netflix will be back.

I wouldn't be surprised if their reasons were also that Sky had a stranglehold on the distribution rights for the films in NZ in the same way that some TV shows can't sell the DVDs here because the broadcasters are sat on the rights for a "future time" - now that is a different topic.

The more that demand is shown, then more will be shown for our demands.





Procrastination eventually pays off.


61 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 883453 23-Aug-2013 15:26
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expression:

Also worth noting that being a "geek" forum users here are more mindful of changes in quality. My flatmate remarked to me that PLP was good quality for the internet, whilst my parents barely notice the difference between an HD channel and an SD channel (once again, anecdotal).


My experience has been different. Both my parents and my parents in-law remarked how good our HD picture was without any prompting or questioning.

1495 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 883454 23-Aug-2013 15:27
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New Zealands NEEDS an agregated and packaged service provider in my opinion as the domestic market is far to small to support individual PPV services. Only the strong programs / channels would survive, so to all be careful what you wish for as unbundling will remove much choice (again in my opinion, just a hunch and no facts!)

558 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 883466 23-Aug-2013 15:46
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I can't see how Netflix is relevant to PLP. With Netflix for the most part you are watching content that has already been released beforehand. In this case PLP would be showing games 2 days after the fact for online viewing.

If you look at how sport is viewed in the US it is still predominately on a TV from a set top box. Those that view online normally only do so as last resort to see the sport. In the case of the US live in a state different to the team they support

558 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 46


  Reply # 883467 23-Aug-2013 15:47
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Benoire,

NZ market is smaller than most states in the US. A sport by sport model I also think would fail. I imagine too that some sports would want to stay with all fits one model as it guarantees them revenue

229 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 883477 23-Aug-2013 16:04
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Jas777: I can't see how Netflix is relevant to PLP. With Netflix for the most part you are watching content that has already been released beforehand. In this case PLP would be showing games 2 days after the fact for online viewing.

If you look at how sport is viewed in the US it is still predominately on a TV from a set top box. Those that view online normally only do so as last resort to see the sport. In the case of the US live in a state different to the team they support


Netflix is relevant as it delivers the content in a similar method to PLP. Granted, its not live, but the way its consumed is similar.

229 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 12


  Reply # 883498 23-Aug-2013 16:23
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Another open weekend?

https://twitter.com/AuckFootballFed/status/370761508076011520

http://www.aucklandfootball.org.nz/index.php?id=44&tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=2230&tx_ttnews%5BbackPid%5D=1&cHash=79a6ce8936

94 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 883516 23-Aug-2013 16:57
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JonnyCam:
Dororke:
Benoire: @Dororke,

It's a bit unfair to compare sky recorded to on demand as you where fully capable of watching the recording anytime, you just chose to allow your family to watch something instead.

How much data did you use on the tablet? Would have been a fairly large amount!


Well in the past when I tried iSky on demand the quality was poor on my PC unless you watched it in a little window. The PLP stream is much improved over that. I'm not a Sky subscriber to sports anymore so I can't compare today to see if Sky have improved or not. So it is perhaps a bit unfair I'll concede and not a scientific test.

Don't know for sure how much I used data wise as it is a company sim. I watched ~ an hour's worth on mobile so logic suggests (1,600Kbps x 60 secs x 60 mins) = 5,760,000bits/8 = 720KB. The company pools all their data plans amongst some 600 mobiles. I'm hoping my usage stays under the radar.



Aren't you missing a kilo there?

1600 Kbps = 1.6 Mbps = 12 MB / min = 720 MB per hour?

Might not stay under the radar if you watch too many games (depending on what the shared pool cap is)



Lol - well spotted. Yes that should have read MB not KB. I'd have taken more care to get it right if it were my data plan. :p

1495 posts

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  Reply # 883527 23-Aug-2013 17:22
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@Expression

Sorry missed the post about Al Jazeera. Still got 3 weeks left on my sub, will be testing it out. On demand content appears to arrive a few days after the game, but the stream is active with a 13 hour timeshift which works, it is just unfortunate that they don't bookmark start of games on the timeline so you have to try and work out when the game would ahve started to get to that point in time.

Slight issue with the HD feed in that it appears to stutter, AJS have only just released HD so this is teething issues but they're trying to fix it... Not sure if I will continue on after my month test though, depends on stutter.

Friend is from Iraq so I'm going to ask him (he has subscribed too) about smart tv apps, bookmarking the stream and connection api's in arabic to make it seem more convincing. While there are many expats in the middleeast, its better if he asks.

I'd rather pay for PLP out of them all as I support local companies where possible, but if Al Jazeera got F1 in HD then I'd drop Sky Sports and use Al Jazeera extensively.

287 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 883613 23-Aug-2013 20:59
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Lust:
compost: EPL in NZ before PLP was like a world where you could only fly Concorde. A good experience (frankly not THAT amazing) - but only a small minority could justify the price. Now we can all "fly", even if it's not at mach 2. Bankers and oligarchs may cry but the rest of us are smiling.


THAT is brilliant. Over 200 pages and you sir have composed the best post. Never thought of comparing myself to an oligarch or banker. Just a working class lad who grew up on the terraces.

Have you packed up your tent from Vic park or are you still rocking the "occupy wall
St" NZ Chapter badge of honor?


Feel the power of analogy brother. If Sky took their business model to food, power or petrol then you could forget about tents, it'd be guillotines all the way.

So, genuine working class or middle class but ashamed of it? These seem to be the main groups identifying as working class in the UK these days.




A time-poor geek is hardly a geek at all

dwl

363 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 43


  Reply # 883622 23-Aug-2013 21:11
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MePLUR: My experience this weekend was disappointing. The stream was constantly buffering when trying to watch the game at 3000 Kbps. Set it to 'Best Available' and this is what I got at the end of the Crystal Palace vs. Tottenham game. Pretty sure it wasn't my internet connection. Did a speed test at the time to a local server and was downloading at 16 Mbps. Even if the content was hosted on an overseas server, I should be able to stream at 3000 Kbps.

The LiveSport audio from Tuesday had Tim Martin indicating they had some issues with the CDN on Sunday morning.  Releasing 10,000 free day passes probably didn't help.  I think this is pushing the technology and the effects will vary around the country.  Obviously the intention is that every subscriber can access the highest bandwidth feed (assuming their connection is usually adequate) but there will probably be regional issues or some ISPs that don't quite have the infrastructure to provide enough separate streams without issues.  We can hope that some tuning will make sure it runs cleanly but I think it is unrealistic to expect that across the whole country straight away.

gunnerpc: We all know its possible to broadcast better quality than they are over the internet. But will they? Maybe. When? Soon, When - Ah no one really knows. They know, but will they tell us? NO.

Putting aside issues where 3 Mbps average can't be achieved, to get better quality really means more bandwidth.  I think it is prudent for PLP not to release higher rates until they have some confidence that the networks (both contribution to the servers and distribution to the clients) can cope.  Coping isn't just getting it right 95% of the time so there has to be some margin to allow for the normal variability of the networks.  News events that might occur weekly causing lots of people to turn on their browsers, or worse looking at TV OnDemand news feeds, does cause issues.  The planners can make assumptions but I would be surprised if they could give any guarantees that higher quality can be broadcast with a high degree of certainty that there won't be issues.  There is learning for everyone and unfortunately this time there are paying subscribers for this service that is only available online, not just as an add-on like you get with iSky.

gunnerpc: Why couldn't PLP broadcast in HD and SD, over the airwaves AND online, even in conjunction with IGLOO or via their own set top box. Or on a freeview channel, with ads.
I would buy their set top box, if it meant I could get HD, and didn't have to rely on my intermittent internet, and WIFI. I would pay $200.00 for their set top box.

Why not? - in one symbol $ !!!.  As has been mentioned here there isn't much spare capacity for broadcast.  A clarification about Igloo - it wasn't just a box that Sky released but a whole transmission channel that was added to the terrestrial platform - they added capacity as well as the decoder needed for this new DVB-T2 system and that capacity doesn't come cheap.  There is a massive advantage for broadcast in that it does only need one stream to serve everyone but only if the content is identical.  PLP make it a selling point you can pause or get on-demand without needing extra boxes.  Even just the simultaneous live games are unlikely to fit in the few spare slots.  Some of the IPTV systems using multicast can get some synergies but I suspect if you look at all the active unicast PLP viewing streams the percentage that had exactly the same content (both program and time) may be low.  A CDN approach can deliver this time and channel flexibility but it does need the servers out close to the viewers to minimise the network loading.  

gunnerpc: For me, the infrastructure of the internet, especially in NZ, isn't ready yet to be the only way someone can get access to television shows.

I totally agree it isn't ready to be the only way.  While the core infrastructure, with a good dose of CDN spread around, might soon be up to it, there are so many variables, either at the local network or home level, that means traditional TV broadcasting will be around for a long time as a primary method of delivery.  However, when it comes to flexibility of content delivery (with wide range of what and when) then over the internet makes a lot of sense. 

85 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 14


  Reply # 883630 23-Aug-2013 21:22
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compost:
Lust:
compost: EPL in NZ before PLP was like a world where you could only fly Concorde. A good experience (frankly not THAT amazing) - but only a small minority could justify the price. Now we can all "fly", even if it's not at mach 2. Bankers and oligarchs may cry but the rest of us are smiling.


THAT is brilliant. Over 200 pages and you sir have composed the best post. Never thought of comparing myself to an oligarch or banker. Just a working class lad who grew up on the terraces.

Have you packed up your tent from Vic park or are you still rocking the "occupy wall
St" NZ Chapter badge of honor?


Feel the power of analogy brother. If Sky took their business model to food, power or petrol then you could forget about tents, it'd be guillotines all the way.

So, genuine working class or middle class but ashamed of it? These seem to be the main groups identifying as working class in the UK these days.


Lol. I'm well aware of an analogy sir. False analogies are an equally important thing to understand. Yor seem an expert in the creation of them if not in recognising them. Not sure why the hell I should justify my background to you but ill bite. Grew up in a council flat in Stoke Newington (look it up) before it gentrified, single parent family, no higher education, left school at 16 to work for Arsenal in the club shop. That working class enough for you son?

I suggest you jog on now!

36 posts

Geek
+1 received by user: 1


  Reply # 883650 23-Aug-2013 21:53
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Benoire: @Expression

Sorry missed the post about Al Jazeera. Still got 3 weeks left on my sub, will be testing it out. On demand content appears to arrive a few days after the game, but the stream is active with a 13 hour timeshift which works, it is just unfortunate that they don't bookmark start of games on the timeline so you have to try and work out when the game would ahve started to get to that point in time.

Slight issue with the HD feed in that it appears to stutter, AJS have only just released HD so this is teething issues but they're trying to fix it... Not sure if I will continue on after my month test though, depends on stutter.

Friend is from Iraq so I'm going to ask him (he has subscribed too) about smart tv apps, bookmarking the stream and connection api's in arabic to make it seem more convincing. While there are many expats in the middleeast, its better if he asks.

I'd rather pay for PLP out of them all as I support local companies where possible, but if Al Jazeera got F1 in HD then I'd drop Sky Sports and use Al Jazeera extensively.



Unfortunately you cannot join Aljazeera sports due to

"rights restrictions, premium content is not available to view where you are"

Unless you have a VPN from the middle east

1 | ... | 95 | 96 | 97 | 98 | 99 | 100 | 101 | 102 | 103 | 104 | 105 | 106 | 107 | 108 | 109 | 110 | 111 | 112 | 113 | 114 | 115 | ... | 210
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