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dwl

363 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 43


  Reply # 888646 2-Sep-2013 21:47
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walt12: This product really is sub-standard.  There are a number of people on this forum flat out making excuses for an inferior product.  There is no way they would be defending it if this was another piece of technology kit.  Coliseum really need to sort it out.

The challenge with this product is there are a lot of variables.  I have no doubt some are getting better experiences than others and this could quite likely be due to their location / ISP and the nearest server being used.  While there are a number of Akamai servers around the country, not every end user will be guaranteed to get an adequate rate for the game even if their speedtest is fine (which should be done as a first check if issues).  There could be problems with seeding of the these caches or excessive loading.  I would have hoped that the PLP help desk could provide guidance as to whether there are known limitations (e.g. like they had reportedly mentioned on Twitter about Sunday mornings) but they might not have that visibility. This forum might be able to help see a pattern if users can identify their ISP, access and display technology and location but I suspect there are too few complaints to build a useful picture.

If there is a difference in performance between live and on demand there might be a further issue that live games (at least the one I checked for the iPad) are now using AES-128 bit encryption whereas the others are not.  I would have hoped that a new Nexus wouldn't have had any issues but there has been mention here that when DRM is added the video performance of Flash players on PCs can suffer.  This could be hard to debug if only on live games and there are question marks over whether the stream is coming in fast enough.  

For the users who have paid their money and not getting the experience they expect I think it is justifiable to call this an inferior product for them.  PLP have put their faith in CDN delivery and it seems for some it might not be up to the task. The problem at this stage is we don't know where the problems are for each user with buffering problems and while users on this forum might be able to fire up Wireshark on their PCs, when using tablets it gets a lot harder, especially when the only feedback the app gives is a spinning circle.

Provided PLP listen and are prepared to refund if it doesn't work in some cases then I don't think it is fair to expect them to provide this service to every reach of the Internet.  They are not in the game of providing the servers but are buying a service from another provider, NeuLion, who happens to rely on Akamai here in NZ and probably has wider technology options in the US (e.g. their other CDN partners I have seen used from here for the PLP service of Limelight and Level3 don't seem to have a presence in NZ - this backup stream needs to come from offshore).

Judging by the latest addition by Kim587, that particular game might have had an extra set of problems.  I would hope that PLP can openly state when there have been service delivery failings so that a more accurate picture of what the "normal" service is like can be determined.

Is it a sub-standard product? "Yes" for some customers and "no" for others.

dwl

363 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 43


  Reply # 888666 2-Sep-2013 22:27
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Kim587: Glad I'm not the only one who had problems with that game. I watched it live and it was buffer city, even when I set the bit rate to 'best available' and it went down to what looked like about 400kbps it had to buffer a bit. I doubt it was my connection, seeing as I'm on cable with a 15mbps download speed, it was about 4 in the morning and that was the only device I was running!
On the other hand, it was still good enough me to enjoy the fans' chants of 'What a waste of money'!   

For anyone who wants to check a bit further on this one, I believe the URL used for this live game was http://nlds5.cdnak.lon.neulion.com/nlds/coliseum/arsenal/as/live/arsenal_hd.m3u8.  For me on Telecom near Wellington this resolves to:

nlds5.cdnak.lon.neulion.com. 2785 IN CNAME nlds5.cdnak.lon.neulion.com.edgesuite.net.
nlds5.cdnak.lon.neulion.com.edgesuite.net. 10399 IN CNAME a336.g2.akamai.net.
a336.g2.akamai.net. 8 IN A 219.88.187.115
a336.g2.akamai.net. 8 IN A 219.88.187.35

For live and on-demand I see 7 servers ranging from nlds1.cdnak.lon.neulion.com through to nlds7.cdnak.lon.neulion.com and they each have two separate IP addresses.  Hopefully these are all close to you.

80 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 888670 2-Sep-2013 22:41
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For the record, my bad experience started off around about the 60 minute mark. Until then, it had streamed quite happily at 3000kbps, as had all the games I had watched previously. But then things went downhill quite significantly for probably the next 10 minutes or so.

dwl

363 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 43


  Reply # 888683 2-Sep-2013 23:22
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Kim587: For the record, my bad experience started off around about the 60 minute mark. Until then, it had streamed quite happily at 3000kbps, as had all the games I had watched previously. But then things went downhill quite significantly for probably the next 10 minutes or so.

I'm curious about how Akamai allocate resources.  If I look at the IP I get for PLP for the Arsenal game of 219.88.187.35 and then I look on the TVNZ OnDemand website I see addresses being used like:

download.tvnz.co.nz. 13719 IN CNAME download.tvnz.co.nz.edgesuite.net.
download.tvnz.co.nz.edgesuite.net. 13721 IN CNAME a1093.g.akamai.net.
a1093.g.akamai.net. 18 IN A 219.88.187.35
a1093.g.akamai.net. 18 IN A 219.88.187.24

Look familiar?  This is just me on Telecom and others will get different results but I have to wonder whether some other program might have started around 6am that was sharing the same server.  

I also note that for iSky my content was being delivered from  prod-ak.vod.isky.co.nz = a1603.g.akamai.net = A 219.88.187.123 which also overlaps with one of the addresses on nlds3.cdnak.lon.neulion.com.  As the use of on demand rises I can only hope that the server resources are adequately scaled to cope.

36 posts

Geek
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  Reply # 888714 3-Sep-2013 08:31
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Kim587: For the record, my bad experience started off around about the 60 minute mark. Until then, it had streamed quite happily at 3000kbps, as had all the games I had watched previously. But then things went downhill quite significantly for probably the next 10 minutes or so.


thats happened to me a few times. the last 10 mins always seem to ick.
(and not because my team cant score from open play either)

1445 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 888728 3-Sep-2013 08:43
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This disappoints me greatly. The whole point of subbing is so that you can get a consistently good stream AT ALL times, not be intermittent as it appears to be for some people. I don't intend to harp on about the consistency of the previous service but if PLP are to be taken seriously, they need to sort out the variability in the streams that people suffer from (iMHO of course).

17 posts

Geek


  Reply # 888867 3-Sep-2013 11:49
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Anyone on here know how I can get to watch Champions League now that I've cancelled Sky Sports...or will I have to grovel back to Sky? Really hope not!

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  Reply # 888868 3-Sep-2013 11:51
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Al Jazeera Sport with a smart DNS or Sky Sports... No other legal ways I'm afraid.

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Geek


  Reply # 888898 3-Sep-2013 12:32
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Benoire: Al Jazeera Sport with a smart DNS or Sky Sports... No other legal ways I'm afraid.


I have US unblock set up for my ATV, so how do I get Al Jazeera?


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  Reply # 888964 3-Sep-2013 13:48
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goto www.en.aljazeerasport.tv. IF you can access the signup page then you can sign up using the DNS. It is a pay service, approximately $170NZD a year but it does cover EPL, bundasliga champs league etc.

67 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 888997 3-Sep-2013 14:41
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Benoire: goto www.en.aljazeerasport.tv. IF you can access the signup page then you can sign up using the DNS. It is a pay service, approximately $170NZD a year but it does cover EPL, bundasliga champs league etc.


Benoire: what way does this work exactly do you have to spend 170$ on the aljazeera service? Then spend another x$ per year for the DNS service? Is the DNS service just giving you an IP address in a region that is allowed to view the material? What games do you get for that price? 

many thanks  


Re PLP:
I watched Liverpool v ManU on monday night on demand. I was very happy with the service. I watched it through my laptop hooked up to my projector, and was very happy with this setup. I am also very happy I can watch all liverpool games for the rest of the season. I am only missing the League Cup and FA Cup.

----------
 

On another note can someone advise me on the best way I can setup my projector for best viewing from my laptop or point me the direction of getting a better understanding of these terms below?

my projector has the following settings:
SVGA (800 x 600)==> 0.48mega pixels => (800*600)/1000/1000 = 0.48)
Or
XGA (1024 x 768)==> 0.78mega pixels => (1024*768)/1000/1000 = 0.78)

Aspect Ratio:
4:3 (Native) on the projector

Video Compatibility on the projector:
NTSC, NTSC 4.43, PAL, PAL-M, PAL-N, PAL 60, SECAM, SDTV /HDTV (480i, 525i, 480p, 525p, 720p, 750p, 1080i, 1125i)

Now to get HD I need to have the following settings:
1080i => 16:9, a spatial resolution of 1920 × 1080 (2.1 megapixels) ==> (1920*1080)/1000/1000 = 2.0736 mega pixels

but I understand this depends on the source. Am I correct in saying that at up to 3000kbps, with PLP this HD cannot be achieved? appreciate any advice here.
X

1445 posts

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  Reply # 889001 3-Sep-2013 14:47
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The DNS service (I use Openplay) spoofs your location as being in the country. With this single DNS I can be anywhere in the world (as long as they support the country) and get full speed downloads.

With regards to Al Jazeera they carry all the EPL games, bundasliga, La Liga, Seria A, Champions League, Europa League etc. Plus they also have lots of other sports too. For around $210NZD a year you can get all that with English commentary (the EPL program has Andy Gray and Martin Tyler). It is also in 'HD' (4200 kbps).

If you have PLP then it is only worth doing if a) you don't already have sky basic and b) the other sports are worth watching in your opinion.

Your project doesn't appear to do 16:9 ratios so any HD resolution is out of reach as far as I can tell.

Also, the top PLP stream isn't 'HD' quality if there is such a term. It is 720p in resolution but the bitrate is too low to get the definition of HD streams.

67 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 3


  Reply # 889014 3-Sep-2013 15:04
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thanks, how much does openlay cost you? This is the way I will be going jsut probs not this season.

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  Reply # 889023 3-Sep-2013 15:10
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Think Openplay DNS is $50USD a year or $4.99 a month. I'm on the month by month basis while I test Al Jazeera Sport.

If Al Jazeera had a decent interface to acces their content I would be very happy to use them, as it stands its web based with some applications that I cannot load on to my Samsung Tablet unfortunately. but it has far more value than PLP in my opinion and currently has a higher bitrate, although as they use auto quality I cannot say if the stream is at 4.2mbps at all times. They're improving their online infrastructure as they've only started to offer the higher quality stream this season.

229 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 12


  Reply # 889148 3-Sep-2013 18:07
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You can get one champions league game a week live on itv.co.uk

DNS/VPN required.

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