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  # 1472918 16-Jan-2016 23:41
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It is clear that how we view theft/stealing depends upon how our philosophical position regarding intangible property.

Traditional definitions of theft, such as in the NZ Crimes Act, typically focus on tangible property. Many people agree that similar principles should apply to intangible property but, apparently, most people do not according to Freakanomics "Copying is not theft" with a memorable video.

But even if most people think that it is OK to copy intangible property that does not necessarily make it the better solution. Many of the laws we rely on today were originally only supported by a minority of people.

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  # 1472953 17-Jan-2016 06:45
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Please could we maybe split this thread into:

"Ethics and Legality of Unblocking - Bad Tempered Circular Discussion"

and

"Netflix to Crack Down on Unblockers - Verified and Informed Comment Only"

My brain is hurting - and my inbox.




Interests: HTPC, Web App authoring. 


 
 
 
 


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  # 1472968 17-Jan-2016 08:09
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turb: Please could we maybe split this thread into:

"Ethics and Legality of Unblocking - Bad Tempered Circular Discussion"

and

"Netflix to Crack Down on Unblockers - Verified and Informed Comment Only"

My brain is hurting - and my inbox.

Agreed, I'm butting out and apologise for boring people
Will be interesting to see how the technical side of this develops

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  # 1472969 17-Jan-2016 08:11
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From a purely commercial stand point, it will be interesting to see how Netflix respond, and whether other such as BBC etc. do something similar to the content on their systems...

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  # 1473010 17-Jan-2016 09:23
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turb: Please could we maybe split this thread into:

"Ethics and Legality of Unblocking - Bad Tempered Circular Discussion"

and

"Netflix to Crack Down on Unblockers - Verified and Informed Comment Only"

My brain is hurting - and my inbox.


The latter thread would be very short given that Netflix only stated their intention and not their implementation plan or technology.

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Ultimate Geek


  # 1473013 17-Jan-2016 09:36
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Would this work?

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  # 1473017 17-Jan-2016 09:42
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If Netflix do it properly and monitor the IP ranges, then no, a VPN will not be any more successful.  As an example, CatchupTV in the UK streams live TV plus an ondemand service.  Due to a decision (legal I think) that favoured the BBC and the other broadcasters, catchuptv blocked the IPs of all the datacenters that hosted VPNs as a service.  This caught out some legitimate UK users who then had to go through a lengthy unlocking process by proving they where in the UK etc... As a result, no one outside of the UK at that time could access the service and they where legally obliged to continue blocking new IPs that popped up otherwise their licenses would be revoked... So, Netflix could do this, and for a while it might work while the company catches up but a VPN would be no different to a DNS.

The only way a VPN would work is if the VPN endpoint IS NOT a commercial datacentre that hosts these services... I.e. when I first moved to NZ, my mate in the UK had a local ISP and he hosted a VPN for me and two others... Because the activity was low and pretty much all the IP addresses where used by businesses we where fine, just the performance was poor... So if you have a friend who will host a VPN for you either personally, or through their work you'll be fine for that country..

 
 
 
 


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  # 1473018 17-Jan-2016 09:55
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Hammerer:
turb: Please could we maybe split this thread into:

"Ethics and Legality of Unblocking - Bad Tempered Circular Discussion"

and

"Netflix to Crack Down on Unblockers - Verified and Informed Comment Only"

My brain is hurting - and my inbox.


The latter thread would be very short given that Netflix only stated their intention and not their implementation plan or technology.


They have that they will do things in coming weeks to stop Geoblockers. So thats talk and intention, and a plan. Off course they won't tell anyone the plan.
It will stop the masses, it will allow geeks to workaround it, although if it got to a point when its a weekly chore to fix it, many might just flag it. It will be an interesting time from a tech and political point of view

Lock him up!
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  # 1473049 17-Jan-2016 10:49
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This is an interesting discussion. I agree there is a fundamental difference between tangible and intangible property and the insistence of those with vested interests in treating intangible property as if it is tangible is a big part of the problem. 

Apart from that, no-one has mentioned the vested interests of the geo-unblocking services. This is like a guerrilla war. The content providers have deep pockets and the resources to bring out heavy weapons. The 'resistance' is not as well-equipped, but it is fast and light and only has to attack weak points in the defence before melting away again. The unblocking services also have an investment in their businesses and they will fight to protect it. This is a David and Goliath battle and agile David usually wins out over lumbering Goliath.





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  # 1473058 17-Jan-2016 11:07
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Rikkitic: This is an interesting discussion. I agree there is a fundamental difference between tangible and intangible property and the insistence of those with vested interests in treating intangible property as if it is tangible is a big part of the problem. 

Apart from that, no-one has mentioned the vested interests of the geo-unblocking services. This is like a guerrilla war. The content providers have deep pockets and the resources to bring out heavy weapons. The 'resistance' is not as well-equipped, but it is fast and light and only has to attack weak points in the defence before melting away again. The unblocking services also have an investment in their businesses and they will fight to protect it. This is a David and Goliath battle and agile David usually wins out over lumbering Goliath.



Thats over dramatising the issue.

Fact is the content owners are correct. Its their content they can sell it to whoever they wish, its a free world. If they tell NF to stop allowing workarounds, thats fine with me. Whats wrong with that?? The unblocking services are just making easy money by allowing users to bypass Netflix Terms and Conditions, its hardly an honest and upfront business. Its like radar detectors. But for some, its cool, its a David and Goliath, we all love the underdog, but in this issue, its the David thats the bad apple. You can argue about allowing all content everywhere,well if that was a financially sound decision, they would do that. Or shall we criticise a business for maximising returns? The content that they sell, and therefore restrict  will arrive in Netflix's library, just not today. Now if the content providers decided to remove regional restrictions, and charge NF the same money, and NF doubles or triples its fee, that would be a good option I feel. Too many want everything here and now, with no interest in the wider implications. 

BDFL - Memuneh
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  # 1473063 17-Jan-2016 11:11
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I was going to post a long reply but better not.

In short. Keep this on topic, which is about Netflix crack down on geo-unblocing. Not the reasoning behind it but HOW and WHAT.






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  # 1473107 17-Jan-2016 12:38
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NonprayingMantis:
freitasm:
NonprayingMantis: Could make the argument that it is entirely Netflix fault.

They have signed contracts with content providers where they pay a much lower fee to only sell the content in one or two countries. The contract also likely says they MUST take steps to stop customers accessing the content outside those countries.


Except that Netflix is now available in 190 countries so this argument doesn't stack up.




Except it does.

If they had the same content in all countries legitimately, there would be no need for unblockers.

The fact that they have very different content libraries across all countries means they only buy rights in some countries and not in others - which was precisely my point. They have to take steps to stop viewers in other countries from accessing the content where they don't have the rights.


Sounds like you've bought the media companies PR spin job.




Regards,

Old3eyes


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  # 1473122 17-Jan-2016 12:59
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networkn: 
Err I hate to break it to you sport, but you are depriving them of something they value considerably, that would be INCOME!



You're not depriving anyone of income when copying something they refuse to sell to you in the first place.




iPad Pro 11" + iPhone XS + 2degrees 4tw!

 

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.


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  # 1473128 17-Jan-2016 13:12
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SaltyNZ:
networkn: 
Err I hate to break it to you sport, but you are depriving them of something they value considerably, that would be INCOME!



You're not depriving anyone of income when copying something they refuse to sell to you in the first place.


Do you really think that? Is this a Green Party thread? Its capitalism and we all love it. Its business, pure and simple. 
If you want NF to host everything, your saying that content owners don't deserve to make money. Or your happy if NF fees tripe or quadruple?
Cant have it both ways. Don't get me wrong, Im not flying the content owners (note the word owners) flag, its business.
I don't see any complaints that House of Cards amongst many other series exist only one on provider.

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  # 1473135 17-Jan-2016 13:21
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tdgeek: 
Do you really think that?


Yes, I do. If Disney hypothetically refused to screen Star Wars in NZ because reasons, then they lost 100% of the revenue they could have generated by screening Star Wars in NZ, right there, period. Whether or not some people managed to see it anyway is irrelevant to their revenue levels. It is no different whatsoever from the formally declared legal practice of buying a region 1 DVD from Amazon in the US when there is no region 4 DVD for sale (or even if there is). 

I pay for Netflix. Netflix pays for content. Netflix pays the same for that content whether I watch the local library or an international one. Everyone's getting paid. There are no starving Hollywood megastars, or even lowly boom operator's assistants. I therefore feel absolutely no obligation to feel guilty.

Like the man said, 'Shut up and take my money!' If content owners won't take it, they shouldn't complain about not having it.




iPad Pro 11" + iPhone XS + 2degrees 4tw!

 

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.


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