Netflix to crack down on unblockers

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Reply # 1473542 18-Jan-2016 10:10

SaltyNZ:
tstone: Saturday evening my Netflix on Xbox One, using Unblock-US, accessing USA content stopped working. I've yet to trawl through the Unblock-US support forums to try and identify if this can be resolved. https://goo.gl/photos/sr6N8EuTWwZmsoQe8
We were watching Netflix Canada via Unblock-US last night. I wonder if they are blocking proxies via some DNS servers but not others? Unblock-US currently tells me to configure a different pair of DNS servers to what it originally told me to use. AFAIK the old ones are still working since I have a couple of devices that have those configured, but others have the new ones. (Stupid Asus router only lets you enter one DNS server, and insists on itself being the second one, which is useless).

NF are working through IP ranges and blocking or about to block them, or might be, so geoblockers are changing on the fly to keep ahead of NF? Fascinating iof thats the case, true cat and mouse in action.

BuzzLightyear

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Reply # 1473586 18-Jan-2016 10:45

NF are working through IP ranges and blocking or about to block them, or might be, so geoblockers are changing on the fly to keep ahead of NF? Fascinating iof thats the case, true cat and mouse in action.

Is this official from any of the unblocking companies? The silence from them on any action is annoying if that is the case.

tdgeek

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Reply # 1473604 18-Jan-2016 10:59

BuzzLightyear: .
NF are working through IP ranges and blocking or about to block them, or might be, so geoblockers are changing on the fly to keep ahead of NF? Fascinating iof thats the case, true cat and mouse in action.
Is this official from any of the unblocking companies? The silence from them on any action is annoying if that is the case.

No, that was just my question

jmh

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Reply # 1473649 18-Jan-2016 11:40

tdgeek:
mattwnz: I think part of the issue is some providers are buying exclusive rights, which I presume they pay more for. Exclusive rights though create monopolies. I think the easy way around it, would be to outlaw exclusive rights agreements in NZ. If all providers were able to buy the content they wanted, and there was no exclusive rights to show that content, so multiple providers could show it, then that would create a more level playing field. It should also be better for consumers, as they then wouldn't need 5 different providers for their content, they may only need 2. Part of the problem in NZ, is we had one main player who used to have most of the content, meaning noone could compete. They do still have almost all the popular sport in NZ, but overtime that may change as online streaming gains more of a foothold. Maybe the solution is what is happening in the US and UK. But NZ is a far smaller market, and can only sustain a few companies in this market.
Sky has always had competition if others chose to purchase the content but they didnt. Lately some providers have outbid Sky, power to them. Now, if content owners sold rights to everyone, that woud be great. No restrictions. I could watch everything on TVOne, Sky, Netflix, Quickflix, Lightbox, Neon, etc, etc. The rights would be very cheap as they are spread over everyone. TVOne would be able to have FTA, plas a cheap pay service $13 a month. Sky can reduce their subscription as many contents are cheap. We would have multiple providers all selling the same thing. The provider that made that the easiest to access will win. No one will have more than one provider in theory. This is what many here are hoping for? If the contebt owners get the same revenue I doubt they will care what happens. It could be like Telco's here, all sell the same thing at the same prices, near enough, so added value and service become king. Then I guess one provider gets a cool added value service exclusive, and they become a monopoly, as there is no reason to stay with any other provider. All theory off course

I think that we are more likely to get more market differentiation. So, I pay for the providers that deliver all the docos, history programmes and British series that I like, while others can subscribe to providers offering superhero/vampire films aimed at teens and young people. You would subscribe to the selection that best suited your household mix. You might have some duplication of programme offerings. Other ways of differentiating are added value, as you suggest.

NonprayingMantis

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Reply # 1473686 18-Jan-2016 12:22

BuzzLightyear: .
NF are working through IP ranges and blocking or about to block them, or might be, so geoblockers are changing on the fly to keep ahead of NF? Fascinating iof thats the case, true cat and mouse in action.
Is this official from any of the unblocking companies? The silence from them on any action is annoying if that is the case.

nothing official yet - mainly because Netflix haven't actually said what they will be doing to stop them, so they can't really respond yet.

Some things the likes of unotelly could work around, but other things will not have anything to do with DNS/IP etc and so they will be utterly powerless to stop.

(imagine, for example, that Netflix put in a requirement for address verification via post to a residential address, a bit like Trademe have as an option. Nothing the unblockers could do to fix that and it would stop the vast majority of non-USA users from having a USA based account)

Rikkitic

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Reply # 1473707 18-Jan-2016 12:28

NonprayingMantis: Nothing the unblockers could do to fix that and it would stop the vast majority of non-USA users from having a USA based account)

Address services already exist. This would just be an incentive for more. Measures like this will only stimulate counter-measures.

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nzconan

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Reply # 1473708 18-Jan-2016 12:30

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MikeB4:
SaltyNZ:
davidcole:
SaltyNZ:
geekiegeek: Look at NZ as an example, if Sky already have the local rights then Netflix cannot buy them.

Hopefully the next time the contracts come up for renewal Sky will find it much harder to lock them up exclusively.

You pays teh monies, you gets the contracts...Should be as simple as that. Whoever has the bigger pockets and bigger desire will take it out I guess.

To a certain extent, yes. But now that Sky have multiple competitors, the rights holders will want to demand a lot more to give exclusivity - naively, say, up to 4x as much since such a deal would preclude them from selling to Netflix, Lightbox and Quickflix, but really 'as much more as they can get away with'. With Sky's customers and profits shrinking by the day, they'll start to find that a much tougher proposition in future.

Actually for Fiscal 2015 Sky's returns were up, that is Revenue, Profit, Assets and Equity.

2015 results include a Rugby World Cup :) ... 2016/2017 could be more telling

NonprayingMantis

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Reply # 1473715 18-Jan-2016 12:37

Rikkitic:
NonprayingMantis: Nothing the unblockers could do to fix that and it would stop the vast majority of non-USA users from having a USA based account)
Address services already exist. This would just be an incentive for more. Measures like this will only stimulate counter-measures.

but the crucial point you are missing is how much hassle people are willing to go through to get Netflix.

the reason people use the likes of unblock-us is that it is very very simple.

If you had to use another service to verify your address in the USA, and maybe use a US-based credit card, etc etc those are all things that make it 'too hard' for most people.

I've lost count of the number of people I've shown unblock-us and they just can't be bothered to even do that. Adding in an extra hurdle is going to cut down the number of people immensely.

Yes, there will always be workarounds for those of us in the know or who are willing to jump through hoops - but Netflix don't need to stop everyone. They just need to stop most people. Address verification or CC location would do exactly that.

tdgeek

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Reply # 1473721 18-Jan-2016 12:44

NonprayingMantis:
Rikkitic:
NonprayingMantis: Nothing the unblockers could do to fix that and it would stop the vast majority of non-USA users from having a USA based account)
Address services already exist. This would just be an incentive for more. Measures like this will only stimulate counter-measures.
but the crucial point you are missing is how much hassle people are willing to go through to get Netflix. the reason people use the likes of unblock-us is that it is very very simple. If you had to use another service to verify your address in the USA, and maybe use a US-based credit card, etc etc those are all things that make it 'too hard' for most people. I've lost count of the number of people I've shown unblock-us and they just can't be bothered to even do that. Adding in an extra hurdle is going to cut down the number of people immensely. Yes, there will always be workarounds for those of us in the know or who are willing to jump through hoops - but Netflix don't need to stop everyone. They just need to stop most people. Address verification or CC location would do exactly that.

What does it take to get a US based creditcard, and for that matter a US address? If you don't know anyone there. On the surface that does sound non do-able. For the masses, I'd imagine that once they see that, its game over.

tdgeek

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Reply # 1473722 18-Jan-2016 12:48

NonprayingMantis:
Rikkitic:
NonprayingMantis: Nothing the unblockers could do to fix that and it would stop the vast majority of non-USA users from having a USA based account)
Address services already exist. This would just be an incentive for more. Measures like this will only stimulate counter-measures.
but the crucial point you are missing is how much hassle people are willing to go through to get Netflix. the reason people use the likes of unblock-us is that it is very very simple. If you had to use another service to verify your address in the USA, and maybe use a US-based credit card, etc etc those are all things that make it 'too hard' for most people. I've lost count of the number of people I've shown unblock-us and they just can't be bothered to even do that. Adding in an extra hurdle is going to cut down the number of people immensely. Yes, there will always be workarounds for those of us in the know or who are willing to jump through hoops - but Netflix don't need to stop everyone. They just need to stop most people. Address verification or CC location would do exactly that.

They have said that they only want people to use Netflix in the country that they are in, so that seems to remove CC location as a means to block. They support me using US Netflix when I am in the US. They should support me using Kiwi Netflix from anywhere, thats normal, expected, and a whole lot easier, and avoids any issue of content I am used to that a foreign Netflix doesn't have.

NonprayingMantis

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Reply # 1473724 18-Jan-2016 12:53

tdgeek:
NonprayingMantis:
Rikkitic:
NonprayingMantis: Nothing the unblockers could do to fix that and it would stop the vast majority of non-USA users from having a USA based account)
Address services already exist. This would just be an incentive for more. Measures like this will only stimulate counter-measures.
but the crucial point you are missing is how much hassle people are willing to go through to get Netflix. the reason people use the likes of unblock-us is that it is very very simple. If you had to use another service to verify your address in the USA, and maybe use a US-based credit card, etc etc those are all things that make it 'too hard' for most people. I've lost count of the number of people I've shown unblock-us and they just can't be bothered to even do that. Adding in an extra hurdle is going to cut down the number of people immensely. Yes, there will always be workarounds for those of us in the know or who are willing to jump through hoops - but Netflix don't need to stop everyone. They just need to stop most people. Address verification or CC location would do exactly that.

They have said that they only want people to use Netflix in the country that they are in, so that seems to remove CC location as a means to block. They support me using US Netflix when I am in the US. They should support me using Kiwi Netflix from anywhere, thats normal, expected, and a whole lot easier, and avoids any issue of content I am used to that a foreign Netflix doesn't have.

Not at all.

It would be pretty simple for them to also implement a rule that says something like " if you use Netflix in a region outside your CC region more than, say, 50% of the time in any three month period then you must switch to that regions credit card or be disconnected.

Add in another rule where rapid region switches also trigger a similar thing, and it makes cc location a fully viable way of policing the persons location whilst still allowing people to use it when travelling.

SaltyNZ

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Reply # 1473733 18-Jan-2016 12:58

NonprayingMantis:

It would be pretty simple for them to also implement a rule that says something like " if you use Netflix in a region outside your CC region more than, say, 50% of the time in any three month period then you must switch to that regions credit card or be disconnected.

Add in another rule where rapid region switches also trigger a similar thing, and it makes cc location a fully viable way of policing the persons location whilst still allowing people to use it when travelling.

I don't think would make much difference, really. I know what's on NZ Netflix; all that would happen would be that I would watch NZ Netflix if what I wanted was on it, and watch international Netflix if it wasn't. It would simply mean I would have to switch regions more often rather than just leaving it on one.

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These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

tdgeek

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Reply # 1473734 18-Jan-2016 12:59

NonprayingMantis:
tdgeek:
NonprayingMantis:
Rikkitic:
NonprayingMantis: Nothing the unblockers could do to fix that and it would stop the vast majority of non-USA users from having a USA based account)
Address services already exist. This would just be an incentive for more. Measures like this will only stimulate counter-measures.
but the crucial point you are missing is how much hassle people are willing to go through to get Netflix. the reason people use the likes of unblock-us is that it is very very simple. If you had to use another service to verify your address in the USA, and maybe use a US-based credit card, etc etc those are all things that make it 'too hard' for most people. I've lost count of the number of people I've shown unblock-us and they just can't be bothered to even do that. Adding in an extra hurdle is going to cut down the number of people immensely. Yes, there will always be workarounds for those of us in the know or who are willing to jump through hoops - but Netflix don't need to stop everyone. They just need to stop most people. Address verification or CC location would do exactly that.

They have said that they only want people to use Netflix in the country that they are in, so that seems to remove CC location as a means to block. They support me using US Netflix when I am in the US. They should support me using Kiwi Netflix from anywhere, thats normal, expected, and a whole lot easier, and avoids any issue of content I am used to that a foreign Netflix doesn't have.

Not at all.

It would be pretty simple for them to also implement a rule that says something like " if you use Netflix in a region outside your CC region more than, say, 50% of the time in any three month period then you must switch to that regions credit card or be disconnected.

Add in another rule where rapid region switches also trigger a similar thing, and it makes cc location a fully viable way of policing the persons location whilst still allowing people to use it when travelling.

Good points

NonprayingMantis

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Reply # 1473739 18-Jan-2016 13:07

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SaltyNZ:
NonprayingMantis:

It would be pretty simple for them to also implement a rule that says something like " if you use Netflix in a region outside your CC region more than, say, 50% of the time in any three month period then you must switch to that regions credit card or be disconnected.

Add in another rule where rapid region switches also trigger a similar thing, and it makes cc location a fully viable way of policing the persons location whilst still allowing people to use it when travelling.
I don't think would make much difference, really. I know what's on NZ Netflix; all that would happen would be that I would watch NZ Netflix if what I wanted was on it, and watch international Netflix if it wasn't. It would simply mean I would have to switch regions more often rather than just leaving it on one.

1) Oh whoops, you accidentally forgot to update your region to USA when you switched on your TV and now you logged into NZ netflix and have to wait 8 hours before you can access USA again. (switching regions faster than you can fly between countries triggers the rule)

2) And really, Netflix NZ is complete dross. If I had to watch 15 hours of Netflix NZ for every 15 hours of USA netflix, I think NZ Netflix would get very old, very fast.

Yeah, I don't think very many people would be keen on that.

SaltyNZ

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Reply # 1473744 18-Jan-2016 13:13

NonprayingMantis: 1) Oh whoops, you accidentally forgot to update your region to USA when you switched on your TV and now you logged into NZ netflix and have to wait 8 hours before you can access USA again. (switching regions faster than you can fly between countries triggers the rule)

Good point; I'll have to write a shell script to switch to NZ Netflix at night when I'm asleep, "stream" some TV during the day when I'm not at home (thanks, unlimited broadband) and then back again around 4pm-ish.

2) And really, Netflix NZ is complete dross. If I had to watch 15 hours of Netflix NZ for every 15 hours of USA netflix, I think NZ Netflix would get very old, very fast. Yeah, I don't think very many people would be keen on that.

Yes, which is why they'll be walking a very fine line. Adhering to their contracts is one thing. It's quite another when doing so costs them customers.

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These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

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