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SaltyNZ
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  #1511031 11-Mar-2016 07:26
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tdgeek:

 

 

 

Wrong. Its copyrighted. Don't you read the fine print?? (I don't either), but its copyrighted. Give it 50 years at last look, and its public domain

 

 

 

 

It'll be 70 years after the TPP. So hooray for Lorde's great great great grandchildren, who will now be able to collect an annual $2 royalty cheque to split between them. Or, possibly, hooray for Disney who can continue to rake in billion dollar profits off a bunch of movie ideas they got from the public domain for another 20 years.





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SaltyNZ
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  #1511033 11-Mar-2016 07:30
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tdgeek:

 

 

 

It wont happen overnight but it will happen (TM) 

 

 

I hope you remembered to pay the rights holder for that quote.





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TeaLeaf
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  #1511040 11-Mar-2016 08:07
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i still think the point that wasting NZ tax payers money to create a law would be ludicrous when Netflix clearly dont really care about their T&Cs, if they did they would just cancel all accounts accessing the US site via Geo blocking.

 

Companines getting governments to inforce T&C's is just outrageous imo.




shk292
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  #1511051 11-Mar-2016 08:39
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tdgeek:

 

Rikkitic:

 

tdgeek:

 

 

 

Wrong. Its copyrighted. Don't you read the fine print?? (I don't either), but its copyrighted. Give it 50 years at last look, and its public domain

 

 

Don't you read the posts? Yes, it is copyrighted, and it is being paid for.

 

 

 

 

 

 

No its not, did you make payment that will go to the owners of the content, no, it goes 100% to Netflix only. But you got what you required. 

 

And yes I do.

 

 

OK if we're talking revenue streams, answer these questions:

 

1 - what's the difference in me in NZ paying Netflix UK as a new subscriber, vs Joe Bloggs in UK doing the same, from the studios' revenue perspective?

 

2 - what's the difference between me in NZ paying Netflix UK to watch Breaking Bad, vs me paying an NZ-based SVOD provider, again from the studios' revenue perspective?

 

So, unless you can think of an answer other than "none at all", your argument that it's piracy/bootlegging because all revenue goes only to Netflix is specious and irrelevant.


MikeB4
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  #1511089 11-Mar-2016 09:11
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shk292:

tdgeek:


Rikkitic:


tdgeek:


 


Wrong. Its copyrighted. Don't you read the fine print?? (I don't either), but its copyrighted. Give it 50 years at last look, and its public domain



Don't you read the posts? Yes, it is copyrighted, and it is being paid for.


 



 


No its not, did you make payment that will go to the owners of the content, no, it goes 100% to Netflix only. But you got what you required. 


And yes I do.



OK if we're talking revenue streams, answer these questions:


1 - what's the difference in me in NZ paying Netflix UK as a new subscriber, vs Joe Bloggs in UK doing the same, from the studios' revenue perspective?


2 - what's the difference between me in NZ paying Netflix UK to watch Breaking Bad, vs me paying an NZ-based SVOD provider, again from the studios' revenue perspective?


So, unless you can think of an answer other than "none at all", your argument that it's piracy/bootlegging because all revenue goes only to Netflix is specious and irrelevant.



Easy

1. Reduced ROI

2. As above

tdgeek
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  #1511107 11-Mar-2016 10:08
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MikeB4:
shk292:

 

tdgeek:

 

 

 

Rikkitic:

 

 

 

tdgeek:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wrong. Its copyrighted. Don't you read the fine print?? (I don't either), but its copyrighted. Give it 50 years at last look, and its public domain

 

 

 

 

 

 

Don't you read the posts? Yes, it is copyrighted, and it is being paid for.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No its not, did you make payment that will go to the owners of the content, no, it goes 100% to Netflix only. But you got what you required. 

 

 

 

And yes I do.

 

 

 

 

 

 

OK if we're talking revenue streams, answer these questions:

 

 

 

1 - what's the difference in me in NZ paying Netflix UK as a new subscriber, vs Joe Bloggs in UK doing the same, from the studios' revenue perspective?

 

 

 

2 - what's the difference between me in NZ paying Netflix UK to watch Breaking Bad, vs me paying an NZ-based SVOD provider, again from the studios' revenue perspective?

 

 

 

So, unless you can think of an answer other than "none at all", your argument that it's piracy/bootlegging because all revenue goes only to Netflix is specious and irrelevant.

 



Easy

1. Reduced ROI

2. As above

 

 

 

To expand, as Ockel has many many times

 

1. Your paying Netflix only. Quite obvious, its not the studios

 

2. Your paying Netflix only, not the studios, you should be paying the SVOD provider here, as they paid the studios, and therefore your payment will be used to fund that studios payment

 

As Mike said reduced ROI (Return On Investment)

 

 

 

 


tdgeek
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  #1511114 11-Mar-2016 10:14
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Lias:

 

 I swear a decent number of people on this thread must work for big media companies, Lightbox, Quickflix, Sky, etc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I dont think that comes into it. I am sure everyone on here as or did take advantage of the alternative sources, or geo unblocking. Either geo unblocking is cheating the system or its not. In my opinion its obviously yes. If someone wants to cheat the system as they can thats fine, just don't justify it as all kosher.

 

Do people get a radar detector as they believe the speed limit is unfair and the fines too expensive? No. They get them to allow them to speed and not get caught. No idea why they are legal, but they are, and thats another story, especially with the safety element

 

 




PhantomNVD
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  #1511115 11-Mar-2016 10:14
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Personally, I think the real issue is the content that is not provided here by ANYONE.

If there's no legal way for me to pay a local provider for the content, the 'most' legal way is to pay A provider who has legal right to provide the content, even if T&C limits geographically, and the closest analogy to this is again a DVD... Which I AM legally allowed to import and play on my 'zone free' player... Just like the US NF plays locally once I've bought a 'pass' (postage?) to watch it as if I'm in the USA.

Interestingly, my NZ Netflix account ENTITLES me to watch US content if I were physically visiting there too... So it's ROI to the producer is the same then, and only AirNZ would make the extra for me to be there...

ockel
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  #1511119 11-Mar-2016 10:23
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PhantomNVD: Personally, I think the real issue is the content that is not provided here by ANYONE.

If there's no legal way for me to pay a local provider for the content, the 'most' legal way is to pay A provider who has legal right to provide the content, even if T&C limits geographically, and the closest analogy to this is again a DVD... Which I AM legally allowed to import and play on my 'zone free' player... Just like the US NF plays locally once I've bought a 'pass' (postage?) to watch it as if I'm in the USA.

Interestingly, my NZ Netflix account ENTITLES me to watch US content if I were physically visiting there too... So it's ROI to the producer is the same then, and only AirNZ would make the extra for me to be there...

 

Well the example given before was Breaking Bad.  Which is available both on Lightbox and Quickflix.  Will you pay the extra $13/mth to see it and other content Lightbox has but Netflix NZ does not?  Why does Netflix NZ not pony up and pay as another non-exclusive provider of Breaking Bad in NZ?  ROI.  

 

So please give some examples of content that you cant view here that you want to.





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shk292
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  #1511149 11-Mar-2016 10:49
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tdgeek:

 

 

 

 

 

To expand, as Ockel has many many times

 

1. Your paying Netflix only. Quite obvious, its not the studios

 

2. Your paying Netflix only, not the studios, you should be paying the SVOD provider here, as they paid the studios, and therefore your payment will be used to fund that studios payment

 

As Mike said reduced ROI (Return On Investment) 

 

 

My point here, which you seem to be agreeing with by not addressing it at all, is that my decision to pay for access to material has exactly the same effect to the rights holder whether I pay Netflix UK or Sky NZ or Lightbox or anyone else.

 

So it is completely wrong to assert that geo-unblocking is immoral, wrong or analogous to bootlegging; under the current licensing model, my choice of SVOD provider and region has exactly zero effect on the rights holders' revenue streams.  The only parties affected are the local distributors.

 

This whole problem/dispute is purely a symptom of the anachronistic licensing model in use


MikeB4
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  #1511163 11-Mar-2016 11:04
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shk292:

 

tdgeek:

 

 

 

 

 

To expand, as Ockel has many many times

 

1. Your paying Netflix only. Quite obvious, its not the studios

 

2. Your paying Netflix only, not the studios, you should be paying the SVOD provider here, as they paid the studios, and therefore your payment will be used to fund that studios payment

 

As Mike said reduced ROI (Return On Investment) 

 

 

My point here, which you seem to be agreeing with by not addressing it at all, is that my decision to pay for access to material has exactly the same effect to the rights holder whether I pay Netflix UK or Sky NZ or Lightbox or anyone else.

 

So it is completely wrong to assert that geo-unblocking is immoral, wrong or analogous to bootlegging; under the current licensing model, my choice of SVOD provider and region has exactly zero effect on the rights holders' revenue streams.  The only parties affected are the local distributors.

 

This whole problem/dispute is purely a symptom of the anachronistic licensing model in use

 

 

 

 

If the Studio agrees to sell rights to Netflix to play a movie only in the US. You circumvent T&C's and watch it here in NZ through NF US, the studio has not been pain for you viewing it. So, $10  for US rights only, $20 for US and NZ rights so by circumventing $10 is lost to the studio bringing a reduced ROI, reduced returns on investment will flow onto less investment and a lose, lose scenario.


shk292
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  #1511167 11-Mar-2016 11:08
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MikeB4:

 

 

 

If the Studio agrees to sell rights to Netflix to play a movie only in the US. You circumvent T&C's and watch it here in NZ through NF US, the studio has not been pain for you viewing it. So, $10  for US rights only, $20 for US and NZ rights so by circumventing $10 is lost to the studio bringing a reduced ROI, reduced returns on investment will flow onto less investment and a lose, lose scenario.

 

 

Wrong, because I'm paring the equivalent charge in the UK or US, so the equivalent revenue share is finding its way back to the rights holder.  Just like if I were a US viewer


dclegg
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  #1511178 11-Mar-2016 11:10
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MikeB4:

 

If the Studio agrees to sell rights to Netflix to play a movie only in the US. You circumvent T&C's and watch it here in NZ through NF US, the studio has not been pain for you viewing it. So, $10  for US rights only, $20 for US and NZ rights so by circumventing $10 is lost to the studio bringing a reduced ROI, reduced returns on investment will flow onto less investment and a lose, lose scenario.

 

 

One thing this argument doesn't consider are SVOD providers that are also the owners or creators of the content. I can't speak for others, but 66.66% of the SVOD providers I geo-unblock fit into this category.


MikeB4
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  #1511181 11-Mar-2016 11:18
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shk292:

 

MikeB4:

 

 

 

If the Studio agrees to sell rights to Netflix to play a movie only in the US. You circumvent T&C's and watch it here in NZ through NF US, the studio has not been pain for you viewing it. So, $10  for US rights only, $20 for US and NZ rights so by circumventing $10 is lost to the studio bringing a reduced ROI, reduced returns on investment will flow onto less investment and a lose, lose scenario.

 

 

Wrong, because I'm paring the equivalent charge in the UK or US, so the equivalent revenue share is finding its way back to the rights holder.  Just like if I were a US viewer

 

 

 

 

No, the studio has a price for the US and a price for NZ it is not either or it is both. They are in effect charging you say $20 her not the $10 payable in the US. If NF has paid for ONLY US viewing then only US viewing it is. you may not

 

like it but that's life.


shk292
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  #1511194 11-Mar-2016 11:38
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MikeB4:

 

shk292:

 

MikeB4:

 

 

 

If the Studio agrees to sell rights to Netflix to play a movie only in the US. You circumvent T&C's and watch it here in NZ through NF US, the studio has not been pain for you viewing it. So, $10  for US rights only, $20 for US and NZ rights so by circumventing $10 is lost to the studio bringing a reduced ROI, reduced returns on investment will flow onto less investment and a lose, lose scenario.

 

 

Wrong, because I'm paring the equivalent charge in the UK or US, so the equivalent revenue share is finding its way back to the rights holder.  Just like if I were a US viewer

 

 

 

 

No, the studio has a price for the US and a price for NZ it is not either or it is both. They are in effect charging you say $20 her not the $10 payable in the US. If NF has paid for ONLY US viewing then only US viewing it is. you may not

 

like it but that's life.

 

 

I give up.  You're completely missing the point, deliberately or not I don't care.  As others have said, this has become a circular argument and I'm butting out of it


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