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  Reply # 1511197 11-Mar-2016 11:41
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shk292:

 

MikeB4:

 

shk292:

 

MikeB4:

 

 

 

If the Studio agrees to sell rights to Netflix to play a movie only in the US. You circumvent T&C's and watch it here in NZ through NF US, the studio has not been pain for you viewing it. So, $10  for US rights only, $20 for US and NZ rights so by circumventing $10 is lost to the studio bringing a reduced ROI, reduced returns on investment will flow onto less investment and a lose, lose scenario.

 

 

Wrong, because I'm paring the equivalent charge in the UK or US, so the equivalent revenue share is finding its way back to the rights holder.  Just like if I were a US viewer

 

 

 

 

No, the studio has a price for the US and a price for NZ it is not either or it is both. They are in effect charging you say $20 her not the $10 payable in the US. If NF has paid for ONLY US viewing then only US viewing it is. you may not

 

like it but that's life.

 

 

I give up.  You're completely missing the point, deliberately or not I don't care.  As others have said, this has become a circular argument and I'm butting out of it

 

 

 

 

No I am not

 

Are you a US resident?

 

Are you accessing Netfix's US library?

 

Has Netflix paid royalties for all it's US library to be viewed in NZ?

 

again are you a US resident?





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


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  Reply # 1511200 11-Mar-2016 11:45
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tdgeek:

 

 

 

To expand, as Ockel has many many times

 

1. Your paying Netflix only. Quite obvious, its not the studios

 

2. Your paying Netflix only, not the studios, you should be paying the SVOD provider here, as they paid the studios, and therefore your payment will be used to fund that studios payment

 

 

 

 

 

 

So, what you're saying is: Netflix US doesn't pay the studios, but Netflix NZ does. Who does Netflix US pay, then? Do they just steal everything and stream it for free? Is NZ the only branch of Netflix that pays the studios?





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These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.


 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1511215 11-Mar-2016 12:00
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SaltyNZ:

 

tdgeek:

 

 

 

To expand, as Ockel has many many times

 

1. Your paying Netflix only. Quite obvious, its not the studios

 

2. Your paying Netflix only, not the studios, you should be paying the SVOD provider here, as they paid the studios, and therefore your payment will be used to fund that studios payment

 

 

 

 

 

 

So, what you're saying is: Netflix US doesn't pay the studios, but Netflix NZ does. Who does Netflix US pay, then? Do they just steal everything and stream it for free? Is NZ the only branch of Netflix that pays the studios?

 

 

Right now, as far as anyone who isn't Netflix can tell, payment to the content creator is done on registered users; so if you live in the US / have a US NF registered account (and therefore pay in USD) and then you're paying your US sub which is counted.  If you live in New Zealand, have an NZ NF account but watching content which is NOT available on NZ NF but watching in the US then you're NOT counted as a US subscriber and therefore in terms of payment, you're not counted for payment to the creator. What is happening instead is your consuming content that is not being paid to the rights holder (I assume) because your account is NZ and the content is not with NF NZ and you're account is not considered part of the US subs.

 

Where the content is held in both NZ/US on NF then really circumventing the geoblock actually makes little difference as you're already paying the NZ sub rather than the US and the rights holders see their agreed money; you're probably in that case costing NF money depending on where the stream is held (local to NZ or overseas).

 

All of these posts are some what conjecture simply as we do not know the exact business models employed, but judging by the earlier link my thinking is probably a reasonable approach.  IF Netflix pay per stream on a delayed basis then perhaps this is all mute as any stream, no matter where it has come from would be counted; the only difference then is that Netflix is breaking the other agreements locally by allowing it to happen.

 

Ultimately, the rights holders have instructed Netflix to combat circumvention of the geolocks and NF must feel there is enough of a case to spend the time and effort to do what they have. 

 

 


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  Reply # 1511220 11-Mar-2016 12:05
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shk292:

 

tdgeek:

 

 

 

 

 

To expand, as Ockel has many many times

 

1. Your paying Netflix only. Quite obvious, its not the studios

 

2. Your paying Netflix only, not the studios, you should be paying the SVOD provider here, as they paid the studios, and therefore your payment will be used to fund that studios payment

 

As Mike said reduced ROI (Return On Investment) 

 

 

My point here, which you seem to be agreeing with by not addressing it at all, is that my decision to pay for access to material has exactly the same effect to the rights holder whether I pay Netflix UK or Sky NZ or Lightbox or anyone else.

 

So it is completely wrong to assert that geo-unblocking is immoral, wrong or analogous to bootlegging; under the current licensing model, my choice of SVOD provider and region has exactly zero effect on the rights holders' revenue streams.  The only parties affected are the local distributors.

 

This whole problem/dispute is purely a symptom of the anachronistic licensing model in use

 

 

 

 

You need to read my post again or Ockels. Your not paying the rightsholder you are paying Netflix US

 

Ill keep it simple. Netflix doesnt sell the product in NZ that you want to buy. Someone else does , so pay them, or its yet to arrive on the someone elses service, yet, so pay them when it does, then the rights holder will get paid

 

But, its an entitlement issue, ignoring who owns the product and where they sell it

 

 


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  Reply # 1511224 11-Mar-2016 12:09
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SaltyNZ:

 

tdgeek:

 

 

 

To expand, as Ockel has many many times

 

1. Your paying Netflix only. Quite obvious, its not the studios

 

2. Your paying Netflix only, not the studios, you should be paying the SVOD provider here, as they paid the studios, and therefore your payment will be used to fund that studios payment

 

 

 

 

 

 

So, what you're saying is: Netflix US doesn't pay the studios, but Netflix NZ does. Who does Netflix US pay, then? Do they just steal everything and stream it for free? Is NZ the only branch of Netflix that pays the studios?

 

 

 

 

If NF US has the rights to air a series they pay the studios for that series, to air to the US, funded by US subscribers

 

IF another SVOD (could be NF, LB, Sky, TV3, anybody) has the rights in NZ, they pay the studios, and this gets funded by the NZ subscribers


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  Reply # 1511233 11-Mar-2016 12:23
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Benoire:

 

SaltyNZ:

 

tdgeek:

 

 

 

To expand, as Ockel has many many times

 

1. Your paying Netflix only. Quite obvious, its not the studios

 

2. Your paying Netflix only, not the studios, you should be paying the SVOD provider here, as they paid the studios, and therefore your payment will be used to fund that studios payment

 

 

 

 

 

 

So, what you're saying is: Netflix US doesn't pay the studios, but Netflix NZ does. Who does Netflix US pay, then? Do they just steal everything and stream it for free? Is NZ the only branch of Netflix that pays the studios?

 

 

Right now, as far as anyone who isn't Netflix can tell, payment to the content creator is done on registered users; so if you live in the US / have a US NF registered account (and therefore pay in USD) and then you're paying your US sub which is counted.  If you live in New Zealand, have an NZ NF account but watching content which is NOT available on NZ NF but watching in the US then you're NOT counted as a US subscriber and therefore in terms of payment, you're not counted for payment to the creator. What is happening instead is your consuming content that is not being paid to the rights holder (I assume) because your account is NZ and the content is not with NF NZ and you're account is not considered part of the US subs.

 

Where the content is held in both NZ/US on NF then really circumventing the geoblock actually makes little difference as you're already paying the NZ sub rather than the US and the rights holders see their agreed money; you're probably in that case costing NF money depending on where the stream is held (local to NZ or overseas).

 

All of these posts are some what conjecture simply as we do not know the exact business models employed, but judging by the earlier link my thinking is probably a reasonable approach.  IF Netflix pay per stream on a delayed basis then perhaps this is all mute as any stream, no matter where it has come from would be counted; the only difference then is that Netflix is breaking the other agreements locally by allowing it to happen.

 

Ultimately, the rights holders have instructed Netflix to combat circumvention of the geolocks and NF must feel there is enough of a case to spend the time and effort to do what they have. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yep. Another post, Ockels I think, somewhere stated that the fee paid to the studio, is not per stream, its a single fee.

 

If a user accessed a title thats on NF US and NZ, thats no issue, it will cost them the geo blocker fee for no reason

 

If they wish to watch on NF US when the title in NZ is playing on LB, Neon, TV3, Sky etc, thats the difference. Or will be in the future. Studios have been paid by that NZ service and missing out on funding, as the viewer bypassed the airing here


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  Reply # 1511263 11-Mar-2016 12:36
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So if someone wants to watch "Dark Matter" which is only on sky zone channel it's near $50 a month, and has adds in it.

US Netflix is around $16 NZ and has it add free. So the people saying geounblocking is wrong must think it's ok to have everyone in NZ be at the mercy of an expensive local distributor that can just price george everyone, great system.

Neon is only SD so again the local distrubutor is really dragging the chain there, you want it, we've brought exclusive rights so watch it the way we present it or go without, even though people can watch better quality other parts of the world. Plus they don't want Neon to complete with their $50 service, and $10 HD ticket on top for Zone Channel.

And I've concluded that light box has no interest in DD 5.1, for action programs it makes them more enjoyable, but tough again.

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  Reply # 1511264 11-Mar-2016 12:39
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ockel:

 

 

 

So please give some examples of content that you cant view here that you want to.

 

 

Nearly everything on ABC iView, BBC iPlayer, PBS, SBS. In other words, quality programming from countries with a public broadcasting system (unlike us). The imbecilic reality crap and infantile Ken and Barbie babble programming that qualifies as 'current events' here does not come even close to the programming I want to see. It is simply not made available here by our commercially-driven baby food media. Apart from that, almost no effort whatsoever is made to serve the significant part of our population with impaired hearing and vision. For closed caption and narrated video, overseas is practically the only option. Or do you not feel these people are entitled to media access that this country cannot (or will not) afford to provide locally? Quality children's television is another one. Kids who grow up with our TV will probably spend the rest of their lives walking around in circles with their mouths hanging open. The quality of our media content is so abysmally impoverished that I find it incredible that you can even ask such a question.

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  Reply # 1511266 11-Mar-2016 12:40
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Benoire:

 

 

 

 

 

What is happening instead is your consuming content that is not being paid to the rights holder (I assume) because your account is NZ and the content is not with NF NZ and you're account is not considered part of the US subs.

 

 

 

 

That's a big assumption!

 

Besides which these content licenses, for both US and internationally, are not based on how many views per region there are but rather it is a fixed fee over a defined time period with the option to renew based on subscriber numbers per region.

 

So Netflix for example would hedge their bets that the cost of a license per region will drive engagement to subscribe or stay subscribed in that region. They don't care if you watch it or not, however that does drive what they do or do not license and renew.


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  Reply # 1511267 11-Mar-2016 12:45
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As others are also saying, contract prices are usually fixed for an agreed period and are not based on actual Netflix views. There is usually no direct connection between contract payments to content providers and subscriber payments. Netflix determines the value proposition for each movie/TV series by using market data and forecasts from PWC's global media research. They combine this with their own info on subscriber preferences and demand. They track profitability of all content and use that information to help with future estimates of value and future negotations.

 

In future, it is expected that video streaming will move to a distribution model more like music which means video content is paid per stream and there will be a more direct connection between views and payments. But one difference might be that all videos are still not available from all distributors unlike music which is generally available on all the main distributors (Spotify, Google, Microsoft, Apple, Deezer, etc). Netflix actively culls content because they have found that they don't need every video on a particular topic, e.g. beekeeping, but just the best one or two.

 

One feature that is similar with music and video is that the main distributors set their margin and spend the rest of their income on content. For example, if they expect income above their target margin then Netflix plans to buy more content and Spotify pays a higher rate to providers. At the moment, Netflix is actually spending more than this because it doesn't aim to be profitable for another year or two. It is spending more than it receives because it is building up its catalogue and distributing into new territories


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  Reply # 1511277 11-Mar-2016 12:51
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rugrat: So if someone wants to watch "Dark Matter" which is only on sky zone channel it's near $50 a month, and has adds in it.

US Netflix is around $16 NZ and has it add free. So the people saying geounblocking is wrong must think it's ok to have everyone in NZ be at the mercy of an expensive local distributor that can just price george everyone, great system.

Neon is only SD so again the local distrubutor is really dragging the chain there, you want it, we've brought exclusive rights so watch it the way we present it or go without, even though people can watch better quality other parts of the world. Plus they don't want Neon to complete with their $50 service, and $10 HD ticket on top for Zone Channel.

And I've concluded that light box has no interest in DD 5.1, for action programs it makes them more enjoyable, but tough again.

 

 

 

Good points. I dont disagree. Ends justify the means. And money as its cheaper. Ignore the T+C 

 

Are you saying geoblocking is wrong but this is why I do it, or are you saying geoblocking is not wrong? Even though you know that the rights in NZ for Kiwis is not NF?

 

Or, why didnt NF get the rights for NZ so it can air on NF NZ?

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1511288 11-Mar-2016 13:09
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Rikkitic:

 

ockel:

 

 

 

So please give some examples of content that you cant view here that you want to.

 

 

Nearly everything on ABC iView, BBC iPlayer, PBS, SBS. In other words, quality programming from countries with a public broadcasting system (unlike us). The imbecilic reality crap and infantile Ken and Barbie babble programming that qualifies as 'current events' here does not come even close to the programming I want to see. It is simply not made available here by our commercially-driven baby food media. Apart from that, almost no effort whatsoever is made to serve the significant part of our population with impaired hearing and vision. For closed caption and narrated video, overseas is practically the only option. Or do you not feel these people are entitled to media access that this country cannot (or will not) afford to provide locally? Quality children's television is another one. Kids who grow up with our TV will probably spend the rest of their lives walking around in circles with their mouths hanging open. The quality of our media content is so abysmally impoverished that I find it incredible that you can even ask such a question.

 

 

 

 

And why do you think that content is geolocked? Is it to deprive you of watching it?  NO.  Its because the content has VALUE.  There are people who will pay for the right to distribute that content.  Of all the content that has been paid for it would have to be public broadcasting content - so why is it not given away freely in other regions?  Why did the BBC have to abandon the global iPlayer?  Because the value of that content in other markets was being so heavily eroded that it had to restrict access.  Because so many people that should have been paying to watch it, were watching it for free by watching out of market.  Its exactly the reason we're having this discussion - devaluing the rights has resulted in the restriction of rights for all people.

 

I find it incredible that you cant see that content has value and that the content creators want a fair return such that they can reinvest in making more content to watch.  The content you prefer is a perfect case in point.


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  Reply # 1511294 11-Mar-2016 13:13
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rugrat: So if someone wants to watch "Dark Matter" which is only on sky zone channel it's near $50 a month, and has adds in it.

US Netflix is around $16 NZ and has it add free. So the people saying geounblocking is wrong must think it's ok to have everyone in NZ be at the mercy of an expensive local distributor that can just price george everyone, great system.

Neon is only SD so again the local distrubutor is really dragging the chain there, you want it, we've brought exclusive rights so watch it the way we present it or go without, even though people can watch better quality other parts of the world. Plus they don't want Neon to complete with their $50 service, and $10 HD ticket on top for Zone Channel.

And I've concluded that light box has no interest in DD 5.1, for action programs it makes them more enjoyable, but tough again.

 

IF Lightbox had acquired Dark Matter would you have subscribed to Lightbox to watch it?  Or just watched it on Netflix US because you could?


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  Reply # 1511304 11-Mar-2016 13:21
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ockel:

 

 

 

I find it incredible that you cant see that content has value and that the content creators want a fair return such that they can reinvest in making more content to watch.  The content you prefer is a perfect case in point.

 

 

Are you from this planet? I am HAPPY to pay for it. I would LOVE to pay for it. They won't let me.

 

 





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  Reply # 1511313 11-Mar-2016 13:33
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Rikkitic:

 

 

 

ockel:

 

 

 

I find it incredible that you cant see that content has value and that the content creators want a fair return such that they can reinvest in making more content to watch.  The content you prefer is a perfect case in point.

 

 

Are you from this planet? I am HAPPY to pay for it. I would LOVE to pay for it. They won't let me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think your latest insult isn't necessary

 

You'd love to pay for it thats great. Subscribe to the service that has the rights for it in NZ, that helps them pay for it. Whoever that is here in NZ isnt stopping you

 

So why the "they wont let me"?

 

 

 

 


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