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  Reply # 1530404 12-Apr-2016 08:14
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charliebrownnz:

 

tdgeek:

 

charliebrownnz:

 

 

 

I think we are in agreement. I was basically saying it is wrong to pay several times more for less content and a lesser service because NZ rights holders are bidding up prices to get exclusive access to providing a specific show based on an arbitrary factor such as where you live.

 

The whole concept of exclusive rights to show content is anti-competitive in the internet age. It is literally about creating little monopolies.

 

 

I don't follow. NZ is small, US is big, its not a fair comparison. Economies of Scale. 

 

Exclusive content is anti-competitive? But you just said NZ rights holders are bidding up prices, that signs competition for the content.

 

You cannot have monopolies. Mono = one. 

 

The internet age isn't relevant, the competition, marketing, this is all old stuff, its economics, supply and demand.

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Exclusive content is anti-competitive? But you just said NZ rights holders are bidding up prices, that signs competition for the content." - How many companies in NZ are allowed to show Game of thrones? Thats right, only sky tv has the rights to show that so if you want to watch it you have to sign up with sky tv. Its your only choice ie, a monopoly. There is competition between rights holders to shaft the consumer, there isn't competition between rights holders to provide the best service. They compete between each other to prevent the competition from providing a service. Competition is meant to provide better services cheaper, not the other way around.

 

 

And how many companies are allowed to show Game of Thrones in the US?  I think you'll find that you'll need an HBONow subscription at another USD15/mth.  Its not a Sky issue its the content providers choice whether to sell the property exclusively or non-exclusively.  Are you saying they should be forced to sell it to all?  And would you like to set the price too?

 

And Showtime content?  Or Starz content?  Or Amazon Prime content?  They all do it.  Exclusive content to attract and retain subscribers?

 

And how many companies have the rights to show Daredevil in NZ?  Oh, wait.  That'd be one.  It's your only choice.  Its a monopoly.  Netflix.  Why should a Lightbox subscriber be forced to subscribe to Netflix to watch Daredevil or other Netflix exclusive content ?  Hardly sounds fair.  


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  Reply # 1530446 12-Apr-2016 09:04
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I don't want to get embroiled in another personality conflict but this is an issue close to my heart. I remain convinced that chopping up the world into arbitrary geographical regions and selling 'exclusive' rights to content region by region is motivated purely by greed, or profit maximisation if you prefer. It is selling the same thing over and over again. Of course America is by far the biggest market for American productions. I would guess (no, I don't have figures) that in most, if not all cases, the cost of production and distribution is earned back from domestic sales there. Everything else is gravy. Well, I don't like being someone else's gravy just because I happen to live in a small country. My argument is not that we should be able to get anything for free. That is nonsense. My argument is that we should have a level playing field. Whether content is sold exclusively or not, it should be available to us on the same terms that it is available anywhere else. I think this will eventually happen, at least to a degree. Geographic distribution is an archaic concept in a digital world and it will not be sustainable in the long run. There is just too much consumer pressure in the other direction. 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  Reply # 1530447 12-Apr-2016 09:11
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There have always been good operational reasons for having geographical regions. Many of those reasons still exist e.g. language translation.


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  Reply # 1530449 12-Apr-2016 09:14
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Hammerer:

 

There have always been good operational reasons for having geographical regions. Many of those reasons still exist e.g. language translation.

 

 

 

 

Exactly. The bottom line is that these companies own the rights to the material and so they can pretty much do what they like with them. 

 

I'd be surprised to see people breaking into museums to see art because they disagreed with the times the museum were open and how much entry cost, and that only certain groups of people could see it at certain times of the day.


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  Reply # 1530465 12-Apr-2016 09:25
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networkn:

 

Hammerer:

 

There have always been good operational reasons for having geographical regions. Many of those reasons still exist e.g. language translation.

 

 

 

 

Exactly. The bottom line is that these companies own the rights to the material and so they can pretty much do what they like with them. 

 

I'd be surprised to see people breaking into museums to see art because they disagreed with the times the museum were open and how much entry cost, and that only certain groups of people could see it at certain times of the day.

 

 

 

 

Agree fully.

 

Its a business, it will evolve over time. I feel one day everything will be everywhere, but then I see that there will be dissent when the content is spread across various platforms or providers. If you want GOT or anything else, its always availabe legally in NZ. It may be on 4 services, or 3, or 2, or exclusive to 1. All that is 100% fine. Then this geo issue is fully and 100% resolved. Thats how I see it happening.


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  Reply # 1530468 12-Apr-2016 09:28
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tdgeek:

 

networkn:

 

Hammerer:

 

There have always been good operational reasons for having geographical regions. Many of those reasons still exist e.g. language translation.

 

 

 

 

Exactly. The bottom line is that these companies own the rights to the material and so they can pretty much do what they like with them. 

 

I'd be surprised to see people breaking into museums to see art because they disagreed with the times the museum were open and how much entry cost, and that only certain groups of people could see it at certain times of the day.

 

 

 

 

Agree fully.

 

Its a business, it will evolve over time. I feel one day everything will be everywhere, but then I see that there will be dissent when the content is spread across various platforms or providers. If you want GOT or anything else, its always availabe legally in NZ. It may be on 4 services, or 3, or 2, or exclusive to 1. All that is 100% fine. Then this geo issue is fully and 100% resolved. Thats how I see it happening.

 

 

I did see a Netflix talkng head the other month saying it could take 20 years to get world wide licensing  so in the meantime it's DNS unblocking or piracy..





Regards,

Old3eyes


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  Reply # 1530470 12-Apr-2016 09:30
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old3eyes:

 

tdgeek:

 

networkn:

 

Hammerer:

 

There have always been good operational reasons for having geographical regions. Many of those reasons still exist e.g. language translation.

 

 

 

 

Exactly. The bottom line is that these companies own the rights to the material and so they can pretty much do what they like with them. 

 

I'd be surprised to see people breaking into museums to see art because they disagreed with the times the museum were open and how much entry cost, and that only certain groups of people could see it at certain times of the day.

 

 

 

 

Agree fully.

 

Its a business, it will evolve over time. I feel one day everything will be everywhere, but then I see that there will be dissent when the content is spread across various platforms or providers. If you want GOT or anything else, its always availabe legally in NZ. It may be on 4 services, or 3, or 2, or exclusive to 1. All that is 100% fine. Then this geo issue is fully and 100% resolved. Thats how I see it happening.

 

 

I did see a Netflix talkng head the other month saying it could take 20 years to get world wide licensing  so in the meantime it's DNS unblocking or piracy..

 

It's not a RIGHT to see this content at your convenience. 

 

 

Heh, well there is a third option, and that is wait till the content is available in your region. It's what people had to do a few years back.  I am not saying that's ideal or that it's the route I am taking, but there are valid and legal ways to get this content, if you wait.


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  Reply # 1530471 12-Apr-2016 09:33
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I like the museum analogy though I don't agree. As has been pointed out elsewhere, there are two main issues, one being the way content is distributed (i.e., via Sky), the other being content availability. Blockbuster programmes like GOT are generally made available in New Zealand. I don't agree with the model that requires you to take out an excessively expensive multi-layered subscription to Sky in order to access it (which is why people go overseas), but that is another argument. What matters more to me is being able to access something at all. A lot of programming simply is not made available here. If the art I want to see is not offered in my local museum, why should I not be able to go to another city, pay the admission, and view it there?

 

   





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  Reply # 1530473 12-Apr-2016 09:34
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networkn:

 

old3eyes:

 

tdgeek:

 

networkn:

 

Hammerer:

 

There have always been good operational reasons for having geographical regions. Many of those reasons still exist e.g. language translation.

 

 

 

 

Exactly. The bottom line is that these companies own the rights to the material and so they can pretty much do what they like with them. 

 

I'd be surprised to see people breaking into museums to see art because they disagreed with the times the museum were open and how much entry cost, and that only certain groups of people could see it at certain times of the day.

 

 

 

 

Agree fully.

 

Its a business, it will evolve over time. I feel one day everything will be everywhere, but then I see that there will be dissent when the content is spread across various platforms or providers. If you want GOT or anything else, its always availabe legally in NZ. It may be on 4 services, or 3, or 2, or exclusive to 1. All that is 100% fine. Then this geo issue is fully and 100% resolved. Thats how I see it happening.

 

 

If you mean subscribe to Sky or buy the blu-rays from JB HiFi  forget it..

 

I did see a Netflix talkng head the other month saying it could take 20 years to get world wide licensing  so in the meantime it's DNS unblocking or piracy..

 

It's not a RIGHT to see this content at your convenience. 

 

 

Heh, well there is a third option, and that is wait till the content is available in your region. It's what people had to do a few years back.  I am not saying that's ideal or that it's the route I am taking, but there are valid and legal ways to get this content, if you wait.

 

 

If you mean subscribe to Sky or buy the blu-rays from JB HiFi  forget it..





Regards,

Old3eyes


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  Reply # 1530481 12-Apr-2016 09:40
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Rikkitic:

 

I like the museum analogy though I don't agree. As has been pointed out elsewhere, there are two main issues, one being the way content is distributed (i.e., via Sky), the other being content availability. Blockbuster programmes like GOT are generally made available in New Zealand. I don't agree with the model that requires you to take out an excessively expensive multi-layered subscription to Sky in order to access it (which is why people go overseas), but that is another argument. What matters more to me is being able to access something at all. A lot of programming simply is not made available here. If the art I want to see is not offered in my local museum, why should I not be able to go to another city, pay the admission, and view it there?

 

   

 

 

See, it doesn't MATTER if you agree with it, it's the way it is. The rights are controlled by the rights holder and that is the end of the argument. 

 

No one is stopping you going to another REGION to view your content, feel free to get on a plane to America, there you can see what you want to see whenever it suits. 

 

I believe the right course of action given you feel strongly about this, is for you to pull together a couple of hundred billion dollars of your own money, outbid all the other rights holders for the rights to the content, then create a distribution network, and let everyone have it as YOU see fit (and wait for the whining about the rates you are charging, or the viewing platforms you support, or the features your platform doesn't have, all that justify someone stealing the content anyway).

 

Even in the USA, people subscribe to multiple different networks, as no service has every episode of TV. Do you disagree that you can't buy Pams brand at Countdown because it's exclusively a New World Brand?


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  Reply # 1530484 12-Apr-2016 09:41
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Your free to fly to the overseas museum, pay the admission and view it there. You can always do that with content, but that's rather expensive, although LAX is only about 900 return at the moment


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  Reply # 1530485 12-Apr-2016 09:42
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If you mean subscribe to Sky or buy the blu-rays from JB HiFi  forget it..

 

 

 

 

Or not watch the content at all. You seem to fail to understand, you don't have any RIGHTS to the material. 


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  Reply # 1530513 12-Apr-2016 09:50
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If everything was available in NZ, how much would we pay for access to all of it?

 

Note that there would off course be multiple providers.

 

Also, the mentions of Sky aren't relevant. Its a provider, same as everyone else, it has the same ability to be part of the supply and demand as everyone else. If you dont like Sky, dont use it, but dont blame what you miss out on, as thats competition

 

If everything was available in NZ, how much would we pay for access to all of it?

 

 


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  Reply # 1530517 12-Apr-2016 10:03
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tdgeek:

 

 

 

If everything was available in NZ, how much would we pay for access to all of it?

 

 

 

 

If we're being fair about it, the same as the Americans pay. Sky is a bit different as they have an enormous legacy satellite infrastructure to maintain, but everyone else is cloud based. It costs Netflix no more to serve NZ than it costs them to serve the US - it is, literally, the same infrastructure. That's the nice thing about the internet. I am no longer limited by the fact that I live on a small island in the South Pacific.

 

The old reasoning behind higher local prices being that it costs a lot to import stuff do not apply in any meaningful way to the internet.





iPad Air + iPhone SE + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.


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  Reply # 1530528 12-Apr-2016 10:15
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Hey all - this thread is degenerating into arguments that are NOT on topic - remember this is about Netflix, unblockers, DNS, VPN type stuff.

If you want to argue about licensing, regional restrictions, etc, can you do it on another/new thread?


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