Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | ... | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21
1753 posts

Uber Geek


  #1476184 21-Jan-2016 14:42
Send private message

NonprayingMantis:

 

something I just realised

 

 

 

The title of this thread is "Legality and/or morality of geoblocking"

 

which is not the same thing as "legality and/or morality of getting around geoblocks."

 

 

 

It could well be perfectly legal and moral to use methods to get around geoblocking. (smart DNS etc etc)

 

It can ALSO be perfectly legal and moral for businesses to implement geoblocks. (IP blocking, etc)

 

 

One could argue that using geoblocking is a case of moral turpitude in that it meets the notion of false representation.  The user of a method to circumvent a geoblock is knowingly representing that he/she is a falsely representing their location and as such knowingly violating the Terms of Use:  "view[ing] a movie or TV show through the Netflix service primarily within the country in which you have established your account and only in geographic locations where we offer our service and have licensed such movie or TV show.".

 

 


758 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #1476187 21-Jan-2016 14:44
Send private message

NonprayingMantis:

something I just realised


 


The title of this thread is "Legality and/or morality of geoblocking"


which is not the same thing as "legality and/or morality of getting around geoblocks."


 


It could well be perfectly legal and moral to use methods to get around geoblocking. (smart DNS etc etc)


It can ALSO be perfectly legal and moral for businesses to implement geoblocks. (IP blocking, etc)



Yes, I suspect that simple statement nails it, which explains why this thread is so meandering!

 
 
 
 


20810 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #1476190 21-Jan-2016 14:57
Send private message

ockel:

 

NonprayingMantis:

 

something I just realised

 

 

 

The title of this thread is "Legality and/or morality of geoblocking"

 

which is not the same thing as "legality and/or morality of getting around geoblocks."

 

 

 

It could well be perfectly legal and moral to use methods to get around geoblocking. (smart DNS etc etc)

 

It can ALSO be perfectly legal and moral for businesses to implement geoblocks. (IP blocking, etc)

 

 

One could argue that using geoblocking is a case of moral turpitude in that it meets the notion of false representation.  The user of a method to circumvent a geoblock is knowingly representing that he/she is a falsely representing their location and as such knowingly violating the Terms of Use:  "view[ing] a movie or TV show through the Netflix service primarily within the country in which you have established your account and only in geographic locations where we offer our service and have licensed such movie or TV show.".

 

 

 

 

Another way to look at it.

 

Its clearly wrong, as you outline. But a geo bypasser isn't a criminal, often a nice person, everyone does it, it saves money, studios are rich, its a very small jab against society and the economy, and its often cool to criticise the establishment when it doesnt suit my needs. There, I feel cleansed and justified!

 

As MF said, its minor in the grand scheme of things

 

 




5362 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #1476195 21-Jan-2016 15:04
Send private message

tdgeek:

 

it saves money

 

 

 

 

TIL I'm the world's worst money saver - I pay for Netflix in USD, and I pay for an additional service that lets me watch out of region.





iPad Pro 11" + iPhone XS + 2degrees 4tw!

 

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.


1753 posts

Uber Geek


  #1476205 21-Jan-2016 15:24
Send private message

tdgeek:

 

ockel:

 

NonprayingMantis:

 

something I just realised

 

 

 

The title of this thread is "Legality and/or morality of geoblocking"

 

which is not the same thing as "legality and/or morality of getting around geoblocks."

 

 

 

It could well be perfectly legal and moral to use methods to get around geoblocking. (smart DNS etc etc)

 

It can ALSO be perfectly legal and moral for businesses to implement geoblocks. (IP blocking, etc)

 

 

One could argue that using geoblocking is a case of moral turpitude in that it meets the notion of false representation.  The user of a method to circumvent a geoblock is knowingly representing that he/she is a falsely representing their location and as such knowingly violating the Terms of Use:  "view[ing] a movie or TV show through the Netflix service primarily within the country in which you have established your account and only in geographic locations where we offer our service and have licensed such movie or TV show.".

 

 

 

 

Another way to look at it.

 

Its clearly wrong, as you outline. But a geo bypasser isn't a criminal, often a nice person, everyone does it, it saves money, studios are rich, its a very small jab against society and the economy, and its often cool to criticise the establishment when it doesnt suit my needs. There, I feel cleansed and justified!

 

As MF said, its minor in the grand scheme of things

 

 

 

 

Kinda like using a fake ID to get into the pub or club?  

 

Or cheating in an exam?

 

Or falsely claiming your credentials in a CV?

 

Or selling concert tickets that you dont have?

 

All the same thing on a scale of varying proportions.


20810 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #1476206 21-Jan-2016 15:29
Send private message

ockel:

 

tdgeek:

 

ockel:

 

NonprayingMantis:

 

something I just realised

 

 

 

The title of this thread is "Legality and/or morality of geoblocking"

 

which is not the same thing as "legality and/or morality of getting around geoblocks."

 

 

 

It could well be perfectly legal and moral to use methods to get around geoblocking. (smart DNS etc etc)

 

It can ALSO be perfectly legal and moral for businesses to implement geoblocks. (IP blocking, etc)

 

 

One could argue that using geoblocking is a case of moral turpitude in that it meets the notion of false representation.  The user of a method to circumvent a geoblock is knowingly representing that he/she is a falsely representing their location and as such knowingly violating the Terms of Use:  "view[ing] a movie or TV show through the Netflix service primarily within the country in which you have established your account and only in geographic locations where we offer our service and have licensed such movie or TV show.".

 

 

 

 

Another way to look at it.

 

Its clearly wrong, as you outline. But a geo bypasser isn't a criminal, often a nice person, everyone does it, it saves money, studios are rich, its a very small jab against society and the economy, and its often cool to criticise the establishment when it doesnt suit my needs. There, I feel cleansed and justified!

 

As MF said, its minor in the grand scheme of things

 

 

 

 

Kinda like using a fake ID to get into the pub or club?  

 

Or cheating in an exam?

 

Or falsely claiming your credentials in a CV?

 

Or selling concert tickets that you dont have?

 

All the same thing on a scale of varying proportions.

 

 

 

 

I think most people see those examples as wrong. Piracy as wrong. But with bypassng blocking I think they see it as right.


BDFL - Memuneh
67443 posts

Uber Geek

Administrator
Trusted
Geekzone
Lifetime subscriber

  #1476207 21-Jan-2016 15:31
Send private message

ockel:

 

Kinda like using a fake ID to get into the pub or club?  

 

Or cheating in an exam?

 

Or falsely claiming your credentials in a CV?

 

Or selling concert tickets that you dont have?

 

All the same thing on a scale of varying proportions.

 

 

The difference is all you mention there are illegal things, geo-unblocking is not (or not defined as such).

 

 





 

 

These links are referral codes

 

Geekzone broadband switch | Eletricity comparison and switch | Hatch investment (NZ$ 10 bonus if NZ$100 deposited within 30 days) | Sharesies | Mighty Ape | Backblaze | Amazon | My technology disclosure 


 
 
 
 


67 posts

Master Geek


  #1476209 21-Jan-2016 15:34
Send private message

Kinda like using a fake ID to get into the pub or club?  

 

Or cheating in an exam?

 

Or falsely claiming your credentials in a CV?

 

Or selling concert tickets that you dont have?

 

All the same thing on a scale of varying proportions.

 



Have to disagree big time on your analogy. Why should it matter which country (race/eye colour/religion) I am from or have to access a service? If I am a traveller jetsetting to places, you restrict me from accessing your service simply 'cos I stopped over in a different country? To me, bypassing geoblocking is an excellent way of standing up to corporate greed. We pay our hard earned money to access your service but coming up with arguments like "oh now that you are out of US you are not allowed to watch this movie or that movie"...what a load of crap! If you don't want to stream your movie, then don't put it on the Internet, the last time I checked, Internet is/was a place used to get rid of silly man-made geo-restrictions and making things accessible to everyone! To deny a service cos I am in a different country is nothing but a form of racism and sheer stupidity.

Once upon a time, it was legal for only Whites to be offered services and DoS to Blacks. Thank goodness people stood against that.
Once upon a time, in a far away land, it was legal for Jews to be prosecuted!


1753 posts

Uber Geek


  #1476216 21-Jan-2016 15:39
Send private message

freitasm:

 

ockel:

 

Kinda like using a fake ID to get into the pub or club?  

 

Or cheating in an exam?

 

Or falsely claiming your credentials in a CV?

 

Or selling concert tickets that you dont have?

 

All the same thing on a scale of varying proportions.

 

 

The difference is all you mention there are illegal things, geo-unblocking is not (or not defined as such).

 

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure that cheating in an exam is not illegal.  It is usually a violation of the rules and regulations and sanctionable.  But not legally a crime. These are all examples of moral turpitude.  At some point in the sliding scale they move from being immoral and legal to being immoral and illegal.  


20810 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  #1476221 21-Jan-2016 15:44
Send private message

weera2500:

 

Kinda like using a fake ID to get into the pub or club?  

 

Or cheating in an exam?

 

Or falsely claiming your credentials in a CV?

 

Or selling concert tickets that you dont have?

 

All the same thing on a scale of varying proportions.

 



Have to disagree big time on your analogy. Why should it matter which country (race/eye colour/religion) I am from or have to access a service? If I am a traveller jetsetting to places, you restrict me from accessing your service simply 'cos I stopped over in a different country? To me, bypassing geoblocking is an excellent way of standing up to corporate greed. We pay our hard earned money to access your service but coming up with arguments like "oh now that you are out of US you are not allowed to watch this movie or that movie"...what a load of crap! If you don't want to stream your movie, then don't put it on the Internet, the last time I checked, Internet is/was a place used to get rid of silly man-made geo-restrictions and making things accessible to everyone! To deny a service cos I am in a different country is nothing but a form of racism and sheer stupidity.

 

 

 

 

You could complain to Netflix


67 posts

Master Geek


  #1476231 21-Jan-2016 15:48
Send private message

tdgeek:

 

weera2500:

 

Kinda like using a fake ID to get into the pub or club?  

 

Or cheating in an exam?

 

Or falsely claiming your credentials in a CV?

 

Or selling concert tickets that you dont have?

 

All the same thing on a scale of varying proportions.

 



Have to disagree big time on your analogy. Why should it matter which country (race/eye colour/religion) I am from or have to access a service? If I am a traveller jetsetting to places, you restrict me from accessing your service simply 'cos I stopped over in a different country? To me, bypassing geoblocking is an excellent way of standing up to corporate greed. We pay our hard earned money to access your service but coming up with arguments like "oh now that you are out of US you are not allowed to watch this movie or that movie"...what a load of crap! If you don't want to stream your movie, then don't put it on the Internet, the last time I checked, Internet is/was a place used to get rid of silly man-made geo-restrictions and making things accessible to everyone! To deny a service cos I am in a different country is nothing but a form of racism and sheer stupidity.

 

 

 

 

You could complain to Netflix

 


I am sure enough people have complained to them already. But 'cos they don't listen (but very happy to take my money) I use services of geo-unblockers.

Back in the day, many people complained to the US govt for racism against Blacks. Took a while for them to listen, right?


6434 posts

Uber Geek


  #1476244 21-Jan-2016 16:12
Send private message

freitasm:

ockel:


Kinda like using a fake ID to get into the pub or club?  


Or cheating in an exam?


Or falsely claiming your credentials in a CV?


Or selling concert tickets that you dont have?


All the same thing on a scale of varying proportions.



The difference is all you mention there are illegal things, geo-unblocking is not (or not defined as such).


 


Pretty sure cheating in an exam isn't illegal,
Neither is lying on your cv. (It can be in some circumstances if you claim certain qualifications - like being a CA or lawyer, but it's not illegal to lie about other stuff.)

Using fake id is illegal I believe, but simply lying about your age in the hope you'll get into a bar isn't illegal afaik.

Basically, Using smartdns type services is essentially lying about who you are in order to gain access to a service you wouldn't otherwise be able to.
So it's like pretending to be over 65 to get a free bus pass.
Pretending to be out of work or sick to get benefits/ACC

In any case, the morality of something is not necessarily tied to its legality. Something can be perfectly legal, and totally immoral.

(And referring to my previous post, we can also say that it is possible for geoblocking to be immoral AND for the act of getting round geoblocking to ALSO be immoral.)




I think the comparison to human rights is absolutely absurd. It's basically saying that civil rights like the right to vote, equal treatment under law for races and religions, is the same sort of thing as having to wait a few weeks to watch game of thrones.
This is not even the same ballpark.

15203 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted
Subscriber

  #1476255 21-Jan-2016 16:28
Send private message

NonprayingMantis:
freitasm:

 

ockel:

 

 

 

Kinda like using a fake ID to get into the pub or club?  

 

 

 

Or cheating in an exam?

 

 

 

Or falsely claiming your credentials in a CV?

 

 

 

Or selling concert tickets that you dont have?

 

 

 

All the same thing on a scale of varying proportions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The difference is all you mention there are illegal things, geo-unblocking is not (or not defined as such).

 

 

 

 

 


Pretty sure cheating in an exam isn't illegal,
Neither is lying on your cv. (It can be in some circumstances if you claim certain qualifications - like being a CA or lawyer, but it's not illegal to lie about other stuff.)

Using fake id is illegal I believe, but simply lying about your age in the hope you'll get into a bar isn't illegal afaik.

Basically, Using smartdns type services is essentially lying about who you are in order to gain access to a service you wouldn't otherwise be able to.
So it's like pretending to be over 65 to get a free bus pass.
Pretending to be out of work or sick to get benefits/ACC

I think the comparison to human rights is absolutely absurd. It's basically saying that civil rights like the right to vote, equal treatment under law for races and religions, is the same sort of thing as having to wait a few weeks to watch game of thrones.
This is not even the same ballpark.

 

 

 

Putting false detail on a CV could be at a stretch seen as fraud or using a document for pecuniary advantage





Mike
Change Management Consultant
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

He waka eke noa


669 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #1476265 21-Jan-2016 16:43
Send private message

The Roy Morgan numbers quoted earlier are pretty accurate. Netflix has approx. 160,000 subscribers in NZ. 6 months ago they had 35,000. Huge growth. Don't ask me to provide a source, its not Roy Morgan :)


1753 posts

Uber Geek


  #1476271 21-Jan-2016 16:52
Send private message

MileHighKiwi:

 

The Roy Morgan numbers quoted earlier are pretty accurate. Netflix has approx. 160,000 subscribers in NZ. 6 months ago they had 35,000. Huge growth. Don't ask me to provide a source, its not Roy Morgan :)

 

 

The Roy Morgan numbers were for Jun 2015 - about 3 months after launch.  Estimated 164,000 homes.  Six months prior to that would have been those accessing Netflix offshore.   

 

Was published in October but only reported in the NZH in December.  So the numbers are very stale.  If Netflix still has 160,000 subs in NZ in late 2015 it'd be disappointing to think that it had reached market saturation already.  


1 | ... | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic



Twitter and LinkedIn »



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

Menulog change colours as parent company merges with Dutch food delivery service
Posted 2-Jul-2020 07:53


Techweek2020 goes digital to make it easier for Kiwis to connect and learn
Posted 2-Jul-2020 07:48


Catalyst Cloud launches new Solutions Hub to support their kiwi Partners and Customers
Posted 2-Jul-2020 07:44


Microsoft to help New Zealand job seekers acquire new digital skills needed for the COVID-19 economy
Posted 2-Jul-2020 07:41


Hewlett Packard Enterprise introduces new HPE GreenLake cloud services
Posted 24-Jun-2020 08:07


New cloud data protection services from Hewlett Packard Enterprise
Posted 24-Jun-2020 07:58


Hewlett Packard Enterprise unveils HPE Ezmeral, new software portfolio and brand
Posted 24-Jun-2020 07:10


Apple reveals new developer technologies to foster the next generation of apps
Posted 23-Jun-2020 15:30


Poly introduces solutions for Microsoft Teams Rooms
Posted 23-Jun-2020 15:14


Lenovo launches new ThinkPad P Series mobile workstations
Posted 23-Jun-2020 09:17


Lenovo brings Linux certification to ThinkPad and ThinkStation Workstation portfolio
Posted 23-Jun-2020 08:56


Apple introduces new features for iPhone iOS14 and iPadOS 14
Posted 23-Jun-2020 08:28


Apple announces Mac transition to Apple silicon
Posted 23-Jun-2020 08:18


OPPO A72 a top mid-tier smartphone
Posted 19-Jun-2020 18:02


D-Link A/NZ launches new smart AX1500 Wi-Fi 6 Router
Posted 19-Jun-2020 15:03



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.


Support Geekzone »

Our community of supporters help make Geekzone possible. Click the button below to join them.

Support Geezone on PressPatron



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.