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  # 2225416 26-Apr-2019 11:42
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ockel:

Spark have blamed it's provider. Earlier today on the Herald website headlines said:

Spark pins blame for Hockey stuff up.
Not our fault says Spark Sport boss.

I agree that Spark should wear the blame. Should be refunding hockey fans for yesterday's blunder.

 

Its obvious, that as the named provider, this is a Spark problem and failure. Its where the buck stops. Thats patently obvious to anyone. Is it a problem to state that the cause of the failed hockey was its streaming provider? And that the livestream was 100% fine, as usual? Is it best to say nothing so that punters have no idea whats the issue, and what will happen at RWC time???  Or maybe lets be transparent


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  # 2225418 26-Apr-2019 11:48
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If you look at day one till now, and assess the failures, and assess the non failures, you would see that its 100% the vast period of time. Yes this was a fail, we all know why, another issue locked down. The commentary here would suggest to new readers that its an ongoing problem, all the time, these problems just keep on happening, so yes RWC is a huge worry. But if you look at the facts and ignore the bluster, you would see that it actually works and works very well. And there are issues that need to be sorted on some devices, and yesterday was poor, given the reason. But its inherently doing whats its required to do, the vast majority of the time, lessons being learned

 

Thats it from me


 
 
 
 


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  # 2225428 26-Apr-2019 12:32
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I don't care that Sky doesn't have RWC so long as Spark will provide an equivalent service, which so far they don't in my eyes. If Sky made this stuff up, people (including me) would be equally rabbid about it, it's what comes with the territory of being responsible for sport content in NZ. If you don't like the heat, time to step out of the kitchen.  You and a few of the others here, seem to take any small amount of critism incredibly personally, which seems strange really. 

 

I have been following this since day one, perhaps not every single post and every single page, but I am aware of how it's going. There are still issues being discovered and that concerns me 4 months from the most signfiicant sporting event in NZ in 2019. 

 

You can minimize the concerns that *paying* punters have if you wish, but the concerns people have are legitimate, unlike many of the usual blathering hate fests on Sky (such as claims their technology is antiquated and Sky are ripping everyone off which are provably incorrect).

 

No-one cares if Spark does their job properly, it's what they are paid for, they will only care if they don't get it right. Spark has been the receipient of some good feedback here, from me included, so it's time to stop waving the "it's a bashing thread" flag quite so vigourously and accept that negative feedback and sentiment is fair if Spark make a mistake.

 

The concern I have with this streaming platform, is that Spark will be able to "explain away" any issues as someone elses problem (wifi, internet, device fault, software issue, end user compentency), which Sky can't do, because they own the solution end to end, and people are generally accepting of the fact Sky is very reliable even if it has its share of other faults. 

 

Spark Sport were transparant about the cause of the fault, good for them, however, the reason for the fault in and of itself is exceptionally concerning to a lot of people, and fair enough too. If you make a mistake, you need to own the bad feedback, it's part of providing a service.  I think most people are wondering how we got to be 140 days from the RWC and are still discovering that it's possible to miss 30 minutes of a sporting event because "someone forgot to press a button".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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  # 2225469 26-Apr-2019 12:57
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networkn:

 

I don't care that Sky doesn't have RWC so long as Spark will provide an equivalent service, which so far they don't in my eyes. If Sky made this stuff up, people (including me) would be equally rabbid about it, it's what comes with the territory of being responsible for sport content in NZ. If you don't like the heat, time to step out of the kitchen.  You and a few of the others here, seem to take any small amount of critism incredibly personally, which seems strange really. 

 

I have been following this since day one, perhaps not every single post and every single page, but I am aware of how it's going. There are still issues being discovered and that concerns me 4 months from the most signfiicant sporting event in NZ in 2019. 

 

You can minimize the concerns that *paying* punters have if you wish, but the concerns people have are legitimate, unlike many of the usual blathering hate fests on Sky (such as claims their technology is antiquated and Sky are ripping everyone off which are provably incorrect).

 

No-one cares if Spark does their job properly, it's what they are paid for, they will only care if they don't get it right. Spark has been the receipient of some good feedback here, from me included, so it's time to stop waving the "it's a bashing thread" flag quite so vigourously and accept that negative feedback and sentiment is fair if Spark make a mistake.

 

The concern I have with this streaming platform, is that Spark will be able to "explain away" any issues as someone elses problem (wifi, internet, device fault, software issue, end user compentency), which Sky can't do, because they own the solution end to end, and people are generally accepting of the fact Sky is very reliable even if it has its share of other faults. 

 

Spark Sport were transparant about the cause of the fault, good for them, however, the reason for the fault in and of itself is exceptionally concerning to a lot of people, and fair enough too. If you make a mistake, you need to own the bad feedback, it's part of providing a service.  I think most people are wondering how we got to be 140 days from the RWC and are still discovering that it's possible to miss 30 minutes of a sporting event because "someone forgot to press a button".

 

 

I don't disagree with a lot of what you say in this post. What I do see is you criticise me minimising, and I see you maximising. I have no issue with feedback, good or bad, there is nowhere for Spark to hide. But its not failing every 45 minutes. If you compared the number of fails of transmission, you would see its very rare. 3 in 6 weeks of feeds. If the services were great, the app and website was great, but the feeds always buffer and stop most livestreams, so inherently unwatchable, then that's a HUGE issue. My HUGE concern was F1 livestreamed, I had Fanpass, it was useless. SS F1 is 10/10 viewing wise. Teething issues are easily fixed, poor transmission is a BIG problem, that doesn't exist here.

 

As to streaming that's another argument. Its the same with Netflix. How is your Netflix? Mines fine, along with a few hundred thousand others, playing all at the same time. The issue of end user competency is the way it goes with streaming, everyone will need to get up to speed, its the same when anything in life changes.

 

I'd rather have a brand new car that had some issues that will get fixed after my complaints and feedback, than an issue free car than is a permanent dog to drive. Which is not easily fixable. Drive = Video as the analogy. SS video feeds "drive great". Phew. The rest is a pain at times, but if you feel the forgotten button guy will happen all the time, every now and then, and that the service will generally be like this, best to look elsewhere maybe 


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  # 2225479 26-Apr-2019 13:13
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Your analogy isn't accurate. My "old" car isn't a Dog to drive, it;s comfortable and it drove just fine thank you very much. Has air conditioning, but not climate control. Sadly for a fair number of people, the new fuel the new car uses isn't being supplied in sustainable/acceptable quantities so they can't drive at all any more.

 

Problem is, there is no option to look "elsewhere" since Spark has the exclusive rights in NZ for the RWC.

 

The AB games are viewed on another channel, but in the example of the issue with the hockey, that would have made no difference. If this happened during the RWC it would be a disaster for every fan that wanted to watch it.

 

I have "questionable" options as a backup, which 95% of NZ won't have.


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  # 2225485 26-Apr-2019 13:18
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tdgeek:

 

networkn:

 

I don't care that Sky doesn't have RWC so long as Spark will provide an equivalent service, which so far they don't in my eyes ...

 

No-one cares if Spark does their job properly, it's what they are paid for, they will only care if they don't get it right. 

 

The concern I have with this streaming platform, is that Spark will be able to "explain away" any issues as someone elses problem (wifi, internet, device fault, software issue, end user compentency), which Sky can't do, because they own the solution end to end ...

 

 

SS F1 is 10/10 viewing wise.

 

 

SS F1 is NOT 10/10 viewing wise - numerous observations here talk about how tricky it is to live stream in real-life (interrupted) circumstance, where rewind, pause and restart are crucial. 

 

The reasons are in networkn's observation above. A streaming service is inherently reliant on a number of different devices, owned by different players, and set-up by different people. This includes the end user who must acquire and set-up various gear. It's an inherently unreliable environment and will differ enough at detail level to make it very hard to facilitate a consistent user experience. Casting to Chromecast is an example (and it's what I do to watch SS) and the combination of the way the cast instruction results in a different view/pause circumstance between casting device (e.g. iPad) and the CC on TV is hugely problematic for the lay viewer. 

 

This is a geek forum, with technically knowledgeable and adaptable people (they/we can drill to find the problem and rectify it).  

 

The "ordinary" person in their lounge will struggle with this.

 

I think Spark needs to (a) own the result as suggested by networkn and (b) have tutorials and well staffed live call helpline etc. to help people cope.

 

cheers


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  # 2225527 26-Apr-2019 13:37
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networkn:

 

Your analogy isn't accurate. My "old" car isn't a Dog to drive, it;s comfortable and it drove just fine thank you very much. Has air conditioning, but not climate control. Sadly for a fair number of people, the new fuel the new car uses isn't being supplied in sustainable/acceptable quantities so they can't drive at all any more.

 

Problem is, there is no option to look "elsewhere" since Spark has the exclusive rights in NZ for the RWC.

 

The AB games are viewed on another channel, but in the example of the issue with the hockey, that would have made no difference. If this happened during the RWC it would be a disaster for every fan that wanted to watch it.

 

I have "questionable" options as a backup, which 95% of NZ won't have.

 

 

It is accurate. Clearly comparing some issues that are fixable with one that is not, but avoid away

 

There are options to look elsewhere as you have stated here more than once you are or expect to be doing that.

 

Ok, so the 30 minutes delay option of yesterday you have decided this is typical and will be typical , ok

 

I think Duke, has more than 5% availability, but yes, referring to Kayo is a better number for you. All games are on SS, Duke is backup, so you dont really have much to lose.

 

In any case, its clear that SS has issues all the time, so what happens on RWC day has already been decided i advance it seems. Just like a Sky thread


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  # 2225531 26-Apr-2019 13:44
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smidon:

 

 

 

SS F1 is NOT 10/10 viewing wise - numerous observations here talk about how tricky it is to live stream in real-life (interrupted) circumstance, where rewind, pause and restart are crucial. 

 

The reasons are in networkn's observation above. A streaming service is inherently reliant on a number of different devices, owned by different players, and set-up by different people. This includes the end user who must acquire and set-up various gear. It's an inherently unreliable environment and will differ enough at detail level to make it very hard to facilitate a consistent user experience. Casting to Chromecast is an example (and it's what I do to watch SS) and the combination of the way the cast instruction results in a different view/pause circumstance between casting device (e.g. iPad) and the CC on TV is hugely problematic for the lay viewer. 

 

This is a geek forum, with technically knowledgeable and adaptable people (they/we can drill to find the problem and rectify it).  

 

The "ordinary" person in their lounge will struggle with this.

 

I think Spark needs to (a) own the result as suggested by networkn and (b) have tutorials and well staffed live call helpline etc. to help people cope.

 

cheers

 

 

Its is for me. Yes FF/RW isnt as ideal as a remote, but thats streaming. Should Apple TV be out and if remote wielding Android boxes are supported as well as TV's then thats resolved. I use a boring iPad, a boring Chromecast, a boring TV that happens to have HDMI. Or I can Airplay from the iPad, to the ATV4. Stuff that many do already. Yes, SVOD is not as easy as a Sky remote, but when I see the ATV app, it will be. Funny how we complain about Sky we should be streaming it, now we complain about streaming???

 

How do you know that a) and b) are not the case? So much assumption, so little fact


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  # 2225555 26-Apr-2019 14:22
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You are getting too defensive I think. Yes SS works on a single device (phone, tablet, PC), now it needs to work, consistently, in the average home on the TV, in the typical home use case (interruptions, nipping off for a pee then continuing, etc.).

 

It will have come of age when Spark "owns" the outcome. Example: when AirNZ can't fly a plane for a mechanical reason they say "we have an engineering issue" ... that's WE have an issue ... not "oh those Boeings you know?" Perhaps because we're in Beta we hear the excuses? I don't know. I'm a paying customer, I'm paying 100% of the price, and I look forward to being able to watch, pause, rewind with accuracy, on my living room TV (via CC).  One simple thing (some RW/FF controls on cast) will help no end. As will Spark owning the solution for me.

 

The use case for watching F1 is to pause, rewind, FF often. "Did you see that? Here look." I have looked up the help files to help with the problem of the CC getting out of kilter with the app on my iPad. About Chromecast the help says "buy yourself a Chromecast and follow the manufacturer's instructions" ... hmmmm. Some Apps have added user controls. I look forward in hope that Spark will do this. Soon.

 

Soon because meanwhile I'm paying my money and Spark practises on me, for the all important RWC. That grates.

 

This is not personal with anyone here BTW, it's frustration about being paying guinea pigs.


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  # 2225576 26-Apr-2019 14:59
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smidon:

 

You are getting too defensive I think. Yes SS works on a single device (phone, tablet, PC), now it needs to work, consistently, in the average home on the TV, in the typical home use case (interruptions, nipping off for a pee then continuing, etc.).

 

It will have come of age when Spark "owns" the outcome. Example: when AirNZ can't fly a plane for a mechanical reason they say "we have an engineering issue" ... that's WE have an issue ... not "oh those Boeings you know?" Perhaps because we're in Beta we hear the excuses? I don't know. I'm a paying customer, I'm paying 100% of the price, and I look forward to being able to watch, pause, rewind with accuracy, on my living room TV (via CC).  One simple thing (some RW/FF controls on cast) will help no end. As will Spark owning the solution for me.

 

The use case for watching F1 is to pause, rewind, FF often. "Did you see that? Here look." I have looked up the help files to help with the problem of the CC getting out of kilter with the app on my iPad. About Chromecast the help says "buy yourself a Chromecast and follow the manufacturer's instructions" ... hmmmm. Some Apps have added user controls. I look forward in hope that Spark will do this. Soon.

 

Soon because meanwhile I'm paying my money and Spark practises on me, for the all important RWC. That grates.

 

This is not personal with anyone here BTW, it's frustration about being paying guinea pigs.

 

 

Im not being defensive, and its a pity when it all ends up as an argument

 

SS is new, it has teething issues. Its beta. Its free for a month IIRC, and its still beta. I can see the point about charging for a beta. If every 3rd feed failed, then wow, ugly. But its not like that. Some commentary here sees it has a continual fail fest. I'm sure if I watched Hockey I'd be miffed, but its a beta, the issue at least was not a technical failure, in fact it was not technical or a system issue, it was a person (yes its should have been automated). But if some wish to act as though it been a few weeks it must be perfect whats wrong, then not really much to say anymore

 

The fact that it was stated who caused the fail doesn't means Spark are passing the blame. They stated WHO caused this issue and WHY, so everyone now knows. They could have kept is secret so  nobody will know if that can happen every now and then. If we need a beta that is perfect, and they keep secrets, well, thats not good. Maybe better to not have had a beta, and not play the sport till later?  This is a geek site, teething issues has been heard before, we all have been there done that, at work and at play, but it seems that doesnt apply here

 

Streaming wise, that's not a Spark issue its a streaming issue. True, when more devices are supported officially that have remotes, that will improve. FF/RW. Its beta

 

PS If you use an iPad , CC and a TV, Im surprised you are having issues. Pause is easy, RW isnt, but I touch the timeline not drag it. When ATV4 has the app, it will have Sky ease of use

 

Knowing my luck, there will be a fail on FP1 tonight and I will be hiding under the bed!  But I expect to just turn it on and watch as has almost been the case all through with F1.

 

 


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  # 2225629 26-Apr-2019 15:24
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tdgeek:

 

It is accurate. Clearly comparing some issues that are fixable with one that is not, but avoid away

 

There are options to look elsewhere as you have stated here more than once you are or expect to be doing that.

 

Ok, so the 30 minutes delay option of yesterday you have decided this is typical and will be typical , ok

 

I think Duke, has more than 5% availability, but yes, referring to Kayo is a better number for you. All games are on SS, Duke is backup, so you dont really have much to lose.

 

In any case, its clear that SS has issues all the time, so what happens on RWC day has already been decided i advance it seems. Just like a Sky thread

 

 

Can you PLEASE stop with your passive aggressive style of arguing? It's *unbearable*.

 

There are options to look elsewhere. I have the technical knowledge and finaces to do this. >95% of the population wouldn't have a clue. It's not an option for them. This means Spark Sport MUST deliver because there are no other options. Just because *I* might be ok, doesn't make me arguing that SS should be further along than they are, invalid. 

 

I didn't say the issue from the Hockey it was typical. Not once, not ever. Knock it off with the BS. You don't like it when others put words in your mouth, you need to apply the same courtesy in return.

 

Duke will show some games but not all games (is my understanding), so it's not an option for those of us who want to watch all games. The Duke broadcast would have been affected yesterday as well is my understanding.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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  # 2225635 26-Apr-2019 15:43
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networkn:

 

tdgeek:

 

It is accurate. Clearly comparing some issues that are fixable with one that is not, but avoid away

 

There are options to look elsewhere as you have stated here more than once you are or expect to be doing that.

 

Ok, so the 30 minutes delay option of yesterday you have decided this is typical and will be typical , ok

 

I think Duke, has more than 5% availability, but yes, referring to Kayo is a better number for you. All games are on SS, Duke is backup, so you dont really have much to lose.

 

In any case, its clear that SS has issues all the time, so what happens on RWC day has already been decided i advance it seems. Just like a Sky thread

 

 

Can you PLEASE stop with your passive aggressive style of arguing? It's *unbearable*.

 

There are options to look elsewhere. I have the technical knowledge and finaces to do this. >95% of the population wouldn't have a clue. It's not an option for them. This means Spark Sport MUST deliver because there are no other options. Just because *I* might be ok, doesn't make me arguing that SS should be further along than they are, invalid. 

 

I didn't say the issue from the Hockey it was typical. Not once, not ever. Knock it off with the BS. You don't like it when others put words in your mouth, you need to apply the same courtesy in return.

 

Duke will show some games but not all games (is my understanding), so it's not an option for those of us who want to watch all games. The Duke broadcast would have been affected yesterday as well is my understanding.

 

 

Pardon me??  How bout keeping to the facts and avoid the exaggeration, avoidance, and general anger. Its JUST a discussion. You think it should have been perfect in a short space of time, after all its only streaming. I see it for what it is, its new, its beta. The issue that have occurred can be compared against the vast majority of non issues, its progress.

 

Your not ok as you have been miffed from day one, thats been clear, and personally I get that. Many cannot afford Sky, so they go without.

 

Google it. All games are on SS. TVNZ shows some games. Backup is within minutes Duke will show any failed SS games, so theoretically they are all on Duke. Spark and TVNZ are partners.

 

"I didn't say the issue from the Hockey it was typical. Not once, not ever. Knock it off with the BS. " You have been going on and on. To you anything less than perfect is an issue. If you can cease the anger, and be like others and just discuss that would be good. But in any case think what you want, or blame Spark for buying the rights or blame World Rugby for selling them. If it turned out perfect, might scrape a 5.5/10 thats the rose coloured I see

 

Calm down, its just a discussion, its not point scoring


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  # 2225640 26-Apr-2019 15:52
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tdgeek:

 

PS If you use an iPad , CC and a TV, Im surprised you are having issues. Pause is easy, RW isnt, but I touch the timeline not drag it. When ATV4 has the app, it will have Sky ease of use

 

 

Yes I know, it's weird. What I find is that I'll start the play (usually a VOD rather than live o/a of F1 timing) on my iPad, cast it and watch on the TV. The ipad has no video on it, just the red line. To pause is easy. To rewind is tricky, often it's for something that just happened and you only want to go back a few seconds. But my clumsy fingers take me back maybe 1 or 2 minutes or whatever - that's where some controls (FWD/REW in say 10 sec intervals would do). BUT the thing I find is, say we've watched 45 or 60 minutes of racetime after a bit of pausing here and there. So elapsed time might be 60-90 minutes. If I uncast so that I'm watching now on the iPad ... the iPad will be at that 90 minute mark. And the inverse happens if I've cast it, then uncast and watch on the i[pda (perhaps to rewind with more accuracy) then go back to the CC and it's back where it was plus the elapsed time it took me to do that. It's as though the device I'm not watching just plays at normal speed ignoring pauses & REW on the other device.  

 

I believe (via a comment on this thread way back) that the command to cast causes the CC to go and source the content and stream it. But I thought that the iPad (or phone, or PC, etc.) would be a controller over that cast. It doesn't seem to be, or anyway not to maintain an elapsed time match. 

 

Does that make sense? On every race so far (3 of them) this has happened.  I saw the podium on one of them ... grrrr. It might be operator error (moi) in which case a CC 101 would be excellent!  

 

Thanks


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  # 2225647 26-Apr-2019 16:05
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tdgeek:

 

Calm down, its just a discussion, its not point scoring

 

 

It's also just tv...not the end of the world.  I find it laughable people being so angry..."gees they can't get these insignificant sport right (and offending hockey/f1/wrc fans in the process) how are they going to get religion.....sorry sportsball....right".

 

And I don't just mean on GZ...there has been a little of that, but holy crap some of the nastiness in other places....for Gods Sake it's just some sport.  If you're annoyed sky doesn't have it. petition them to win it at all costs next time the contract is up, and support them wholeheartedly to get it.  That's how bidding rights work.





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  # 2225648 26-Apr-2019 16:05
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smidon:

tdgeek:


PS If you use an iPad , CC and a TV, Im surprised you are having issues. Pause is easy, RW isnt, but I touch the timeline not drag it. When ATV4 has the app, it will have Sky ease of use



Yes I know, it's weird. What I find is that I'll start the play (usually a VOD rather than live o/a of F1 timing) on my iPad, cast it and watch on the TV. The ipad has no video on it, just the red line. To pause is easy. To rewind is tricky, often it's for something that just happened and you only want to go back a few seconds. But my clumsy fingers take me back maybe 1 or 2 minutes or whatever - that's where some controls (FWD/REW in say 10 sec intervals would do). BUT the thing I find is, say we've watched 45 or 60 minutes of racetime after a bit of pausing here and there. So elapsed time might be 60-90 minutes. If I uncast so that I'm watching now on the iPad ... the iPad will be at that 90 minute mark. And the inverse happens if I've cast it, then uncast and watch on the i[pda (perhaps to rewind with more accuracy) then go back to the CC and it's back where it was plus the elapsed time it took me to do that. It's as though the device I'm not watching just plays at normal speed ignoring pauses & REW on the other device.  


I believe (via a comment on this thread way back) that the command to cast causes the CC to go and source the content and stream it. But I thought that the iPad (or phone, or PC, etc.) would be a controller over that cast. It doesn't seem to be, or anyway not to maintain an elapsed time match. 


Does that make sense? On every race so far (3 of them) this has happened.  I saw the podium on one of them ... grrrr. It might be operator error (moi) in which case a CC 101 would be excellent!  


Thanks



Perfect sense. Turn the iPad off and it will keep playing. I got a CC only for this and while I don’t flip to iPad and back I’ve noticed that but never took any notice. Why would you flip from tv to iPad ?

There was an issue last race where when you pick up the already started feed, you could only watch from live not from start. That was an iOS app issue, laptop was fine. It’s known and probably fixed by now. That may also have got in the way of your issue perhaps

I’ll be on it tonight for FP1 we can catchup there if need be

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Posted 14-May-2019 07:25


Kordia boosts cloud performance with locally-hosted Microsoft Azure ExpressRoute
Posted 8-May-2019 10:25


Microsoft Azure ExpressRoute in New Zealand opens up faster, more secure internet for Kiwi businesses
Posted 8-May-2019 09:39


Vocus Communications to deliver Microsoft Azure Cloud Solutions through Azure ExpressRoute
Posted 8-May-2019 09:25


Independent NZ feature film #statusPending to premiere during WLG-X
Posted 6-May-2019 22:13


The ultimate dog photoshoot with Nokia 9 PureView #ForgottenDogsofInstagram
Posted 6-May-2019 09:41



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