Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


Filter this topic showing only the reply marked as answer View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | ... | 73 | 74 | 75 | 76 | 77 | 78 | 79 | 80 | 81 | 82 | 83 | 84 | 85 | 86 | 87 | 88 | 89 | 90 | 91 | 92 | 93 | ... | 103
16947 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3364

Trusted

  # 2233699 9-May-2019 14:08
Send private message quote this post

Benoire:

 

So who pays for the transmission costs from akamai to the customer?  my ISP or Spark? With Sky you knew it was either Sky or atmospheric, with online, is it Spark, Akamai, my ISP?  Who can you hold to account?

 

 

I cant answer that, but how would Netflix work?  Feed is from US I assume, or maybe here perhaps. I assume there is a CDN for each RSP? As its streaming, it seems to be a similar means. Sky's OD also?

 

 

 

Good points though


1792 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 254

Subscriber

  # 2233702 9-May-2019 14:12
Send private message quote this post

Its a genuine question I guess for all online distributed stuff, who is ultimately responsible for the service and who is responsible for fixing the issues?  Effectively Spark Sport and my ISP hold custody over the content as they are both necessary for it to work.


 
 
 
 


126 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 32


  # 2233704 9-May-2019 14:16
Send private message quote this post

tdgeek:

 

You make it seem that this is frequent?

 

Is it better if when something goes wrong, they say nothing? The stream is from US to Akamai to the RSP. If something goes wrong and it wasnt Spark staff breaking it,(I dont actually think they touch it, I might be wrong) then they should not say what happened? That would be easy I guess, but not transparent, if end users dont know what happened, thus have no idea if its likely again.

 

But, ok.

 

 

Fairly frequent, I don't recall a completely clean F1 Weekend, where at least one stream either didn't work, didn't fail or glitch part way through, causing the live stream to need restarting by the customer, and/or causing the VOD asset not be created correctly or to be created but not covering the whole of the programming.

 

To be fair I have to say this is far from every stream, but at least one stream most F1 weekends thus far. (Some times it was F2 or the pre/post session SKYUK programming  for example). e.g. the first hour and a bit of the pre race programme from BAKU is missing from the VOD asset (due to a in-stream glitch which killed the live feed) (note the live feed also had an entire programme segment missing), one of the F2 races from China only appeared later in the week after the event). These are not RSP issues (or probably even Akamai issues, more likely transport issues from SKYUK or FOM to i-Planet))

 

I never said it is "Spark staff breaking it", however it about how Spark Sport respond to make good when it does break that is important to me as a customer. Transparency is good, but as a customer I don't really care what the cause was, just that they learn from it and make good to provide the content I have paid for. I only have a relationship with SS, if someone else causes a problem with the service to me that is a spark sport problem, I have no relationship with anyone else.

 

Sourcing and standing up a good copy of the feed from the source would also be a great way to respond. (they do exist on the internet if you look hard enough), but I would rather that SS get SkyUK or FOM to send a clean copy to IPlanet or whoever needs it, to provide the full programming I believed I was paying for.


16947 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3364

Trusted

  # 2233741 9-May-2019 14:21
2 people support this post
Send private message quote this post

Benoire:

 

Its a genuine question I guess for all online distributed stuff, who is ultimately responsible for the service and who is responsible for fixing the issues?  Effectively Spark Sport and my ISP hold custody over the content as they are both necessary for it to work.

 

 

My opinion is this, its my opinion/assumption/probably wrong!

 

 

 

SS and NF are fully responsible, its their product, no matter what.

 

The streaming provider whoever that may be,  may be tasked with delivering to Akamai, and/or a CDN

 

Akamai and/or the CDN has to do its thing, I guess they are technically responsible there (although overall as I said, its SS/NF)

 

If an RSP has to have Akamai "stuff" setup thats their task

 

If one of those fail, SS/NF own it, but its another company that has caused the fault, so SS/NF need to sort them out. So while I see that SS/NF own it all, they cannot probably control it all

 

 

 

 

 

 


4103 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2859

Trusted

  # 2233743 9-May-2019 14:29
3 people support this post
Send private message quote this post

As an extension of that argument, who's responsible if an ISP doesn't have enough handover bandwidth, or if the subscriber's VDSL line has lots of errors, or if their WIFI isn't very good? Or their PC is too old? Spark Sport can not be responsible for every single part of the chain, in the same way Sky shouldn't be responsible for a broken TV.

 

Having and maintaining good Akamai infrastructure is the responsibility of each ISP, either to have capacity in their network, or to arrange access to capacity. Spark has been extremely proactive in assisting ISPs and Akamai understand the requirements and possible max loads they may see, but ultimately it's up to each ISP to ensure that they have sufficient Akamai capacity.

 

Like Netflix, this is an example of where someone might want to choose an ISP on some metric other than the cheapest price possible. (That said, I think most if not all large and medium sized ISPs have good Akamai capacity.... I can't speak to the tiny ones)

 

Cheers - N





--

 

Please note all comments are the product of my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.


126 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 32


  # 2233757 9-May-2019 14:46
Send private message quote this post

Talkiet:

 

As an extension of that argument, who's responsible if an ISP doesn't have enough handover bandwidth, or if the subscriber's VDSL line has lots of errors, or if their WIFI isn't very good? Or their PC is too old? Spark Sport can not be responsible for every single part of the chain, in the same way Sky shouldn't be responsible for a broken TV.

 

Having and maintaining good Akamai infrastructure is the responsibility of each ISP, either to have capacity in their network, or to arrange access to capacity. Spark has been extremely proactive in assisting ISPs and Akamai understand the requirements and possible max loads they may see, but ultimately it's up to each ISP to ensure that they have sufficient Akamai capacity.

 

Like Netflix, this is an example of where someone might want to choose an ISP on some metric other than the cheapest price possible. (That said, I think most if not all large and medium sized ISPs have good Akamai capacity.... I can't speak to the tiny ones)

 

Cheers - N

 

 

SS have publicly stated they support all NZ ISP's I would take that as the answer.

 

If you have other Internet connectivity issues then why would you not have already addressed that with your ISP. SS have stated what the minimum connectivity they support is if your connection supports that and it still doesn't work my first point of escalation would be SS.


4103 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2859

Trusted

  # 2233761 9-May-2019 14:50
One person supports this post
Send private message quote this post

That's completely fair to have SS be the first point of contact is SS doesn't work well but other streaming services work well. That said, if it turns out to be an issue with capacity in an external network, there's nothing Spark Sport could do about it in the immediate term. We could (and would, if confirmed) speak to the relevant RSP about it, but THEY are in control of their networks.

 

 

 

Cheers - N





--

 

Please note all comments are the product of my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.


 
 
 
 


'That VDSL Cat'
10473 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2518

Trusted
Spark
Subscriber

  # 2233764 9-May-2019 14:54
Send private message quote this post

smcc:

 

If you have other Internet connectivity issues then why would you not have already addressed that with your ISP. SS have stated what the minimum connectivity they support is if your connection supports that and it still doesn't work my first point of escalation would be SS.

 

 

to be fair, and i'm sure you can ask this of many providers....

 

Customers do call in about their netflix buffering or not working correctly.

 

 

 

 

 

to end users, their issue isn't my internet is slow their issue is, netflix isnt HD.





#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.


126 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 32


  # 2233829 9-May-2019 16:03
One person supports this post
Send private message quote this post

hio77:

 

to be fair, and i'm sure you can ask this of many providers....

 

Customers do call in about their netflix buffering or not working correctly.

 

to end users, their issue isn't my internet is slow their issue is, netflix isnt HD.

 

 

I agree, but to some extend this comes with the territory, if you use the internet to deliver content then you as a supplier are going to have to deal with this from your customers (especially if it the general public).

 

Having said that, most of the issues we have been discussing are not about delivery to the end user, they are problems with the source material that is breaking the stream, and high quality and full VOD assets not being stood up by SS (or their suppliers). These are most definitely not an ISP issue. These issues are not Bandwidth or ISP service related they relate to how the stream is created and managed by SS (and its suppliers).

 

WRC+ for example seem to cope much better with stream glitches, which occur, it tends in general not to break the live stream completely and they can normally stand up a full VOD asset quite quickly even if the live stream had issues.

 

Also for fairness, I believe F1TV Pro had a bit of a horror weekend for Baku also, I believe they are offering refunds to those who bleet loudly enough. I believe they use the same streaming provider as SS.


4447 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 685

Trusted

  # 2233928 9-May-2019 18:51
One person supports this post
Send private message quote this post

Talkiet:

 

For anyone to suggest we have "buggered up" F1 would be an overreaction of galactic proportions.

 

 

Sorry I didn't mean to imply that Spark Sport had. 

 

Just pointing out to others, that people will also be biased towards their sport, and if you read the media coverage, the F1 and hockey fans have had a bad run of it (and seeing complaints throughout this thread).

 

Also pointing out, that at the end of the day....it's just telly....it's not the end of the world even if there are problems.

 

Personally I'd had very few issues, and even on that first weekend, the mismatched audio/commentary wasn't the end of the world.





Previously known as psycik

OpenHAB: Gigabyte AMD A8 BrixOpenHAB with Aeotech ZWave Controller, Raspberry PI, Wemos D1 Mini, Zwave, Xiaomi Humidity and Temperature sensors and Bluetooth LE Sensors
Media:Chromecast v2, ATV4, Roku3, HDHomeRun Dual
Windows 10
Host (Plex Server/Crashplan): 2x2TB, 2x3TB, 1x4TB using DriveBender, Samsung 850 evo 512 GB SSD, Hyper-V Server with 1xW10, 1xW2k8, 2xUbuntu 16.04 LTS, Crashplan, NextPVR channel for Plex,NextPVR Metadata Agent and Scanner for Plex


4447 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 685

Trusted

  # 2233932 9-May-2019 18:56
Send private message quote this post

tdgeek:

 

davidcole:

 

BRING ON THE DEVICES!!!

 

 

https://help.sparksport.co.nz/your-account/what-devices-can-i-watch-spark-sport-on

 

Updates and timelines are there now

 

 

Interesting (and doesn't affect me), that it doesn't list android tv generically.  Isn't that what the dish tv, and shield tv comes under?

 

 





Previously known as psycik

OpenHAB: Gigabyte AMD A8 BrixOpenHAB with Aeotech ZWave Controller, Raspberry PI, Wemos D1 Mini, Zwave, Xiaomi Humidity and Temperature sensors and Bluetooth LE Sensors
Media:Chromecast v2, ATV4, Roku3, HDHomeRun Dual
Windows 10
Host (Plex Server/Crashplan): 2x2TB, 2x3TB, 1x4TB using DriveBender, Samsung 850 evo 512 GB SSD, Hyper-V Server with 1xW10, 1xW2k8, 2xUbuntu 16.04 LTS, Crashplan, NextPVR channel for Plex,NextPVR Metadata Agent and Scanner for Plex


'That VDSL Cat'
10473 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2518

Trusted
Spark
Subscriber

  # 2233944 9-May-2019 19:02
One person supports this post
Send private message quote this post

davidcole:

 

tdgeek:

 

davidcole:

 

BRING ON THE DEVICES!!!

 

 

https://help.sparksport.co.nz/your-account/what-devices-can-i-watch-spark-sport-on

 

Updates and timelines are there now

 

 

Interesting (and doesn't affect me), that it doesn't list android tv generically.  Isn't that what the dish tv, and shield tv comes under?

 

 

 

 

Android TV will be included, content missed it unfortunately.





#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.


16947 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3364

Trusted

  # 2233981 9-May-2019 20:19
Send private message quote this post

davidcole:

 

tdgeek:

 

davidcole:

 

BRING ON THE DEVICES!!!

 

 

https://help.sparksport.co.nz/your-account/what-devices-can-i-watch-spark-sport-on

 

Updates and timelines are there now

 

 

Interesting (and doesn't affect me), that it doesn't list android tv generically.  Isn't that what the dish tv, and shield tv comes under?

 

 

 

 

I dunno! I dont do Android, but as Troy (@Hio77) has confirmed its next week, as is iOS. I hope that generic Android TV works well


16947 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3364

Trusted

  # 2233989 9-May-2019 20:36
Send private message quote this post

smcc:

 

tdgeek:

 

You make it seem that this is frequent?

 

Is it better if when something goes wrong, they say nothing? The stream is from US to Akamai to the RSP. If something goes wrong and it wasnt Spark staff breaking it,(I dont actually think they touch it, I might be wrong) then they should not say what happened? That would be easy I guess, but not transparent, if end users dont know what happened, thus have no idea if its likely again.

 

But, ok.

 

 

Fairly frequent, I don't recall a completely clean F1 Weekend, where at least one stream either didn't work, didn't fail or glitch part way through, causing the live stream to need restarting by the customer, and/or causing the VOD asset not be created correctly or to be created but not covering the whole of the programming.

 

To be fair I have to say this is far from every stream, but at least one stream most F1 weekends thus far. (Some times it was F2 or the pre/post session SKYUK programming  for example). e.g. the first hour and a bit of the pre race programme from BAKU is missing from the VOD asset (due to a in-stream glitch which killed the live feed) (note the live feed also had an entire programme segment missing), one of the F2 races from China only appeared later in the week after the event). These are not RSP issues (or probably even Akamai issues, more likely transport issues from SKYUK or FOM to i-Planet))

 

I never said it is "Spark staff breaking it", however it about how Spark Sport respond to make good when it does break that is important to me as a customer. Transparency is good, but as a customer I don't really care what the cause was, just that they learn from it and make good to provide the content I have paid for. I only have a relationship with SS, if someone else causes a problem with the service to me that is a spark sport problem, I have no relationship with anyone else.

 

Sourcing and standing up a good copy of the feed from the source would also be a great way to respond. (they do exist on the internet if you look hard enough), but I would rather that SS get SkyUK or FOM to send a clean copy to IPlanet or whoever needs it, to provide the full programming I believed I was paying for.

 

 

While not trying to defend SS, the level of glitches per feed has been very low. Ive watched F1 for years. There are inherent glitches. Take Monza and its not the only one, when cars go under bridges it stops. Many times some interviews are audio out of sync, this was on Sky. The press conferences were often out of sync. 

 

Point is, yes some glitches can be SS, but some are the feed


'That VDSL Cat'
10473 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2518

Trusted
Spark
Subscriber

  # 2233992 9-May-2019 20:40
Send private message quote this post

tdgeek:

 

I dunno! I dont do Android, but as Troy (Hio77) has confirmed its next week, as is iOS. I hope that generic Android TV works well

 

 

I'm not sure i confirmed next week? i confirmed a post that stated a month that's been publically shared.

 

 

 

Pretty sure that month wasnt may...





#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.


1 | ... | 73 | 74 | 75 | 76 | 77 | 78 | 79 | 80 | 81 | 82 | 83 | 84 | 85 | 86 | 87 | 88 | 89 | 90 | 91 | 92 | 93 | ... | 103
Filter this topic showing only the reply marked as answer View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic



Twitter and LinkedIn »



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

New Zealand government unveils new digital service to make business easier
Posted 16-Jul-2019 17:35


Scientists unveil image of quantum entanglement
Posted 13-Jul-2019 06:00


Hackers to be challenged at University of Waikato
Posted 12-Jul-2019 21:34


OPPO Reno Z now available in New Zealand
Posted 12-Jul-2019 21:28


Sony introduces WF-1000XM3 wireless headphones with noise cancellation
Posted 8-Jul-2019 16:56


Xero announces new smarter tools, push into the North American market
Posted 19-Jun-2019 17:20


New report by Unisys shows New Zealanders want action by social platform companies and police to monitor social media sites
Posted 19-Jun-2019 17:09


ASB adds Google Pay option to contactless payments
Posted 19-Jun-2019 17:05


New Zealand PC Market declines on the back of high channel inventory, IDC reports
Posted 18-Jun-2019 17:35


Air New Zealand uses drones to inspect aircraft
Posted 17-Jun-2019 15:39


TCL Electronics launches its first-ever 8K TV
Posted 17-Jun-2019 15:18


E-scooter share scheme launches in Wellington
Posted 17-Jun-2019 12:34


Anyone can broadcast with Kordia Pop Up TV
Posted 13-Jun-2019 10:51


Volvo and Uber present production vehicle ready for self-driving
Posted 13-Jun-2019 10:47


100,000 customers connected to fibre broadband network through Enable
Posted 13-Jun-2019 10:35



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.


Support Geekzone »

Our community of supporters help make Geekzone possible. Click the button below to join them.

Support Geezone on PressPatron



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.