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# 141060 28-Feb-2014 11:21
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Hi all,

I know this has been discussed elsewhere but I have never seen a definate answer.  I have just had VDSL installed (today).  A couple of years ago  coffeebaron installed CAT5 from the demarcation point and installed an ADSL2 master splitter, which is still there.  I can connect at 10up and 43 down (attenuation was 7 down before VDSL installed) and I am approx 200m from the cabinet.  I will not be using POTS (obviously) and will be going down the VOIP road.

So my question is - do I need a master splitter at all?  Can I just take the CAT5 direct to the modem?  I did read some comments on other threads that doing this can affect others in the area (I asked the tech from Chorus and he said there seems to be only 1 other VDSL line on the street).

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  # 996258 28-Feb-2014 11:48
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If you have the modem connected directly to the demark no master filter is required. In all other cases a master filter is required.

There really aren't any words to come up with Bigpipe's decision to not install master filters, it really is just an idiotic concept created by people who clearly don't have a clue in the world how xDSL works. Even worse it has the ability to impact other VDSL2 users in the same MPF bundle by creating scenarios where FEXT can occur.

It's just dumb, dumb, dumb.




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  # 996274 28-Feb-2014 11:59
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sbiddle: If you have the modem connected directly to the demark no master filter is required. In all other cases a master filter is required.

There really aren't any words to come up with Bigpipe's decision to not install master filters, it really is just an idiotic concept created by people who clearly don't have a clue in the world how xDSL works. Even worse it has the ability to impact other VDSL2 users in the same MPF bundle by creating scenarios where FEXT can occur.

It's just dumb, dumb, dumb.





exactly this. hopefully at some point of beating the dead horse, bigpipe will smarten up on it..


given your sync speeds, it would be a VDSL compliant splitter that coffeebarron did, and so it should be good.


for your attenuation, its a decent sync rate too. 




#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.


 
 
 
 


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  # 996289 28-Feb-2014 12:18
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Thanks for the helpful and very constructive feedback Sbiddle.

We checked with Chorus this week (again) about filters on VDSL, and they still seem quite happy about how we're doing things. It is their network after all.

Having said that, we're considering all options, and looking at ways we can make things better, which may include options around master splitters in the near future if we can get the right customer proposition and maintain our commitment to no term contracts.

To the OP, if Coffeebaron installed a filter 2 years ago, then it is almost certainly a VDSL capable filter, so you don't need to pay for a new one. (which every other ISP doing VDSL would make you do).




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  # 996297 28-Feb-2014 12:27
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Every other ISP gets an filter install for 'free' because it's built into the monthly VWS0 cost for a 30 month period. With no cost to the end customer or ISP why are you not doing it?

Or have you negotiated a cheaper rate with Chorus to avoid paying the same VWS0 rate as others and as a result have a price advantage over ISPs with the downside of the customer in all likelihood suffering a degraded product experience?





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  # 996299 28-Feb-2014 12:29
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BigPipeNZ: We checked with Chorus this week (again) about filters on VDSL, and they still seem quite happy about how we're doing things. It is their network after all.


absurd.

i personally would be utterly unimpressed with having a bigpipe customer move in next to me, in my copper bundle, and their *possible* crosstalk wrecking havoc on my line.  while it may be *acceptable* in the eyes of how the network just works but as a provider who appears to be reasonable clued up, you seem to be making very bad moves.

your reply is almost laughing off reasonable concern for the effect it *could* cause.


last i checked, fullflavour did splitters, and they do no contracts. so why not you?




#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.


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  # 996305 28-Feb-2014 12:38
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sbiddle: Every other ISP gets an filter install for 'free' because it's built into the monthly VWS0 cost for a 30 month period. With no cost to the end customer or ISP why are you not doing it?

Or have you negotiated a cheaper rate with Chorus to avoid paying the same VWS0 rate as others and as a result have a price advantage over ISPs with the downside of the customer in all likelihood suffering a degraded product experience?






the Filter install is an extra $5/month (for 30 months) over the standard VDSL price - so it is more expensive to offer it. ($5 x 30 = $150 to be precise) 




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  # 996310 28-Feb-2014 12:44
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Gezz, looks like I started a bit of an argument there!

So it looks like even though I COULD just connect the CAT5 to my modem, I SHOULDN'T as it may affect other users.  I am more than happy with the speeds I am getting and hope the DLM process will tweak them a bit more.  If I do have a VDSL splitter installed then all is good.

One more question - how can I confirm that the splitter is a VDSL one and not just ADSL?

 
 
 
 


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  # 996311 28-Feb-2014 12:44
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hio77:
BigPipeNZ: We checked with Chorus this week (again) about filters on VDSL, and they still seem quite happy about how we're doing things. It is their network after all.


absurd.

i personally would be utterly unimpressed with having a bigpipe customer move in next to me, in my copper bundle, and their *possible* crosstalk wrecking havoc on my line.  while it may be *acceptable* in the eyes of how the network just works but as a provider who appears to be reasonable clued up, you seem to be making very bad moves.

your reply is almost laughing off reasonable concern for the effect it *could* cause.


last i checked, fullflavour did splitters, and they do no contracts. so why not you?


just tried to have a look at their site, but it seems to be down right now (for me, anyway).

http://fullflavourmedia.co.nz/services/vdsl

"Not Found

 

The requested URL /services/vdsl was not found on this server.

 

Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request."




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  # 996312 28-Feb-2014 12:45
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BigPipeNZ:
hio77:
BigPipeNZ: We checked with Chorus this week (again) about filters on VDSL, and they still seem quite happy about how we're doing things. It is their network after all.


absurd.

i personally would be utterly unimpressed with having a bigpipe customer move in next to me, in my copper bundle, and their *possible* crosstalk wrecking havoc on my line.  while it may be *acceptable* in the eyes of how the network just works but as a provider who appears to be reasonable clued up, you seem to be making very bad moves.

your reply is almost laughing off reasonable concern for the effect it *could* cause.


last i checked, fullflavour did splitters, and they do no contracts. so why not you?


just tried to have a look at their site, but it seems to be down right now (for me, anyway).

http://fullflavourmedia.co.nz/services/vdsl

"Not Found The requested URL /services/vdsl was not found on this server. Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request."


http://fullflavour.co.nz/services/




#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.


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  # 996314 28-Feb-2014 12:46
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timbosan: Gezz, looks like I started a bit of an argument there!

So it looks like even though I COULD just connect the CAT5 to my modem, I SHOULDN'T as it may affect other users.  I am more than happy with the speeds I am getting and hope the DLM process will tweak them a bit more.  If I do have a VDSL splitter installed then all is good.

One more question - how can I confirm that the splitter is a VDSL one and not just ADSL?


check the filter itself? it should say it on the side




#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.




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  # 996315 28-Feb-2014 12:47
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hio77:
timbosan: Gezz, looks like I started a bit of an argument there!

So it looks like even though I COULD just connect the CAT5 to my modem, I SHOULDN'T as it may affect other users.  I am more than happy with the speeds I am getting and hope the DLM process will tweak them a bit more.  If I do have a VDSL splitter installed then all is good.

One more question - how can I confirm that the splitter is a VDSL one and not just ADSL?


check the filter itself? it should say it on the side


You mean on the components inside the plastic box? I will have a look when I get home.  Thanks!

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  # 996317 28-Feb-2014 12:49
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timbosan:
hio77:
timbosan: Gezz, looks like I started a bit of an argument there!

So it looks like even though I COULD just connect the CAT5 to my modem, I SHOULDN'T as it may affect other users.  I am more than happy with the speeds I am getting and hope the DLM process will tweak them a bit more.  If I do have a VDSL splitter installed then all is good.

One more question - how can I confirm that the splitter is a VDSL one and not just ADSL?


check the filter itself? it should say it on the side


You mean on the components inside the plastic box? I will have a look when I get home.  Thanks!


as said earlier though, given your sync speeds and the fact that coffeebarron did it, your highly likely to be a vdsl splitter.




#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.


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  # 996327 28-Feb-2014 12:54
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hio77:
BigPipeNZ:
hio77:
BigPipeNZ: We checked with Chorus this week (again) about filters on VDSL, and they still seem quite happy about how we're doing things. It is their network after all.


absurd.

i personally would be utterly unimpressed with having a bigpipe customer move in next to me, in my copper bundle, and their *possible* crosstalk wrecking havoc on my line.  while it may be *acceptable* in the eyes of how the network just works but as a provider who appears to be reasonable clued up, you seem to be making very bad moves.

your reply is almost laughing off reasonable concern for the effect it *could* cause.


last i checked, fullflavour did splitters, and they do no contracts. so why not you?


just tried to have a look at their site, but it seems to be down right now (for me, anyway).

http://fullflavourmedia.co.nz/services/vdsl

"Not Found The requested URL /services/vdsl was not found on this server. Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request."


http://fullflavour.co.nz/services/


There is almost no info about VDSL plans, pricing, contracts on the 'services' page.

When I click on the link in that page to take me to the VDSL plans and pricing it is broken.


 




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  # 996331 28-Feb-2014 12:57
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BigPipeNZ: 
There is almost no info about VDSL plans, pricing, contracts on the 'services' page.

When I click on the link in that page to take me to the VDSL plans and pricing it is broken.


yes, you are right, their site doesnt give all the information you need.


if it did, i would have quoted it myself. as i said "last i saw".




#include <std_disclaimer>

 

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.


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  # 996335 28-Feb-2014 13:02
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hio77:
BigPipeNZ: 
There is almost no info about VDSL plans, pricing, contracts on the 'services' page.

When I click on the link in that page to take me to the VDSL plans and pricing it is broken.


yes, you are right, their site doesnt give all the information you need.


if it did, i would have quoted it myself. as i said "last i saw".


well, it's pretty hard to compare to an ISP who's site doesn't even work. 

I did find their previous VDSL offer though:

http://fullflavour.co.nz/blog/2013/2/7/limited-vdsl-broadband-offer/

That was no contract, but had a mandatory $150+GST connection fee, AND an optional wiring charge for a master filter of $150+GST, so that would probably explain how they could do no contract.




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