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'That VDSL Cat'
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  # 1004366 12-Mar-2014 15:57
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richms: I'm glad that it's not mandatory as I don't need or want one as I have a single jack. To force me to pay for a chorus visit that will achieve nothing is absurd.

by all means insist on it for installs with multiple sockets but to blanket send a tech out via a chorus booking is not cool.


whats the harm in a tech coming, giving your single jackpoint the tick and leaving again?




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  # 1004367 12-Mar-2014 15:58
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An additional $5 a month to the isp for a start. IMO the isp should be financing the install not chorus.




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'That VDSL Cat'
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  # 1004374 12-Mar-2014 16:06
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richms: An additional $5 a month to the isp for a start. IMO the isp should be financing the install not chorus.


your only going to have an installation once though.

by that logic, one could argue, i dont use google services, so why should i be contributing to costs for google cache servers?


im sure if you were upfront with an isp, hey im moving my connection and a splitter is already installed, they would skip the sending the tech out stage.




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  # 1004391 12-Mar-2014 16:33
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hio77:
richms: An additional $5 a month to the isp for a start. IMO the isp should be financing the install not chorus.


your only going to have an installation once though.

by that logic, one could argue, i dont use google services, so why should i be contributing to costs for google cache servers?


im sure if you were upfront with an isp, hey im moving my connection and a splitter is already installed, they would skip the sending the tech out stage.


Having talked to a few ISPs in the last week, and stating that a master filter had already been installed, they implied that there'd still be a site visit. (Even though Chorus have visited due to other faults since, and not said a word about the installation - which I'm assuming means that they feel it passes muster)

I think both sides are in the right here, because there are so many difference forces that dictate how something has to be done, regardless of it's a $5 discount that Bigpipe get, or a $5 additional charge that other ISPs get (or something else in between), exempting specific end customers from charges (or passing on the $5/mo as an addition 'surcharge') is one sure fire way of inviting the wrath of the Commerce Commission/Consumer Affairs on them (I can't find the link at the moment, but I know one of them has a whole guidance of having the clearly explain all costs - a single fee for all makes sense from a billing/administration POV).

But, maybe Bigpipe need to put up some better guidance on the issue, yes it may be optional from Chorus, but simply saying "as an electrician" doesn't seem to be the best advice, maybe if they explain what one does (and even looks like), why people may want/should get one, then there shouldn't be as many issues.  Still recommend that an electrician/installer do the job (I'm NOT saying start selling DIY kits), but just make it clearer on the advantages and what exactly someone should be asking to be done to their house.

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  # 1004554 12-Mar-2014 21:09
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You say its $5 over 30 months?

How come people only need to sign up for 12 months to get VDSL on orcon or telecom etc

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  # 1004556 12-Mar-2014 21:11
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Because they have probably determined that it is as long as the market will take, and they have padded the VDSL options by enough to cover it?




Richard rich.ms

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  # 1004564 12-Mar-2014 21:18
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richms: Because they have probably determined that it is as long as the market will take, and they have padded the VDSL options by enough to cover it?


So they would be paying $12.50 a month instead of $5 to pay it off in 12 months instead of 30 months?

 
 
 
 


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  # 1004566 12-Mar-2014 21:19
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I guess the maths works out like that, but only the ISPs know for sure what happens if the customer bails part way thru while paying it back.




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  # 1004568 12-Mar-2014 21:26
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BigPipeNZ:
We've checked with Chorus (multiple times - including again this morning).  They are happy with us doing it this way.
They own the network and have all the technical knowledge required so they should rightfully have the final say in the matter.

It certainly makes for an interesting discussion to have on geekzone, and I'm happy to have that discussion as long as people keep things civil. Ultimately it comes down Chorus and the decision about their network. 


This issue has very little to do with Chorus. It's all about customer expectations, and the fact you're delivering your customers a product that in all likelihood will be of a lower standard than an identical product delivered by another ISP who chooses to install a master filter.

If you're OK with that then great, my recommendation will now be that Bigpipe should be avoided at all costs because you're clearly not interested in the end to end customer experience. This differs very much from the typical Telecom ethic of delivering a fully managed end to end products that delivers customers the best possible end user experience. Digital Ventures should be about creating cutting edge products that innovate in the marketplace, not delivering sub standard product offerings that result in disgruntled customers.







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  # 1004571 12-Mar-2014 21:27
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Yabanize:
richms: Because they have probably determined that it is as long as the market will take, and they have padded the VDSL options by enough to cover it?


So they would be paying $12.50 a month instead of $5 to pay it off in 12 months instead of 30 months?


No.


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  # 1004573 12-Mar-2014 21:29
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sbiddle:
Yabanize:
richms: Because they have probably determined that it is as long as the market will take, and they have padded the VDSL options by enough to cover it?


So they would be paying $12.50 a month instead of $5 to pay it off in 12 months instead of 30 months?


No.



Explain?

I mean when someone signs up for 12 months on orcon unlimited VDSL they get free installation of the master filter

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  # 1004613 12-Mar-2014 22:13
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We have 2x VDSL connections at work, both with Snap and a master filter was never installed nor discussed, so I think a lot of the hate at BigPipe in this thread is misguided and should be pointed at Chorus instead.

Side note, I'm moving to BigPipe myself later this week and would actually rather not have to be forced to pay for a master filter considering I've put one in myself in at the demarc (& disconnected the rest of the phone jacks in the house at the same time).




 


'That VDSL Cat'
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  # 1004620 12-Mar-2014 22:20
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Peppery: We have 2x VDSL connections at work, both with Snap and a master filter was never installed nor discussed, so I think a lot of the hate at BigPipe in this thread is misguided and should be pointed at Chorus instead.

Side note, I'm moving to BigPipe myself later this week and would actually rather not have to be forced to pay for a master filter considering I've put one in myself in at the demarc (& disconnected the rest of the phone jacks in the house at the same time).


how long ago was this installed though?


the "hate" as you put it, is because the provider themselves down talks a filter as not being a crucial part of a vdsl installation considering what the average household is like.


chorus not installing a filter, if they were meant to, is a whole different kettle of fish.





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  # 1004640 12-Mar-2014 23:25
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hio77:
Peppery: We have 2x VDSL connections at work, both with Snap and a master filter was never installed nor discussed, so I think a lot of the hate at BigPipe in this thread is misguided and should be pointed at Chorus instead.

Side note, I'm moving to BigPipe myself later this week and would actually rather not have to be forced to pay for a master filter considering I've put one in myself in at the demarc (& disconnected the rest of the phone jacks in the house at the same time).


how long ago was this installed though?


the "hate" as you put it, is because the provider themselves down talks a filter as not being a crucial part of a vdsl installation considering what the average household is like.


chorus not installing a filter, if they were meant to, is a whole different kettle of fish.



So you've said that not having a filter will impact other customers, but how much impact are we talking here?

if it is a serious amount, then chorus shouldn't even be allowing no filter connections, so you should be talking about them, not the ISPs. They are the ones who own and run the network, know it best, and have the rights and expertise to make that decision.

If it's minimal, like 1-2Mbps difference or something, and only impacts geeks who want to wring every last Kbps out of their connection, then frankly it seems like a storm in a teacup.

sbiddle seem to be getting much more emotional about this than last year when snap were doing no filter installs, or full flavor were doing no filter installs. Why is that? Big pipe is surely way smaller than they are, (well, smaller than snap anyway for sure) having only launched last month. The trial isn't even finished yet.

Are there any real world stats available on what the impact of having no filter is on your own connection or on others? 1%? 10%? 50%?

(I have bigpipe vdsl, and already had a filter from my previous telecom vdsl, so pretty happy I don't have a second, totally pointless, filter built into the price of my connection)

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  # 1004660 13-Mar-2014 07:34
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Peppery: We have 2x VDSL connections at work, both with Snap and a master filter was never installed nor discussed, so I think a lot of the hate at BigPipe in this thread is misguided and should be pointed at Chorus instead.

Side note, I'm moving to BigPipe myself later this week and would actually rather not have to be forced to pay for a master filter considering I've put one in myself in at the demarc (& disconnected the rest of the phone jacks in the house at the same time).


As I have mentioned before, the filter is only part of the solution, the real issue it creating an untapped transmission line from demarc to modem, the filter simply allows you to liven the remainder of the houses network for voice purposes should that service be available. The process of installing "the filter" is probably 10% of the job, creating a single clean transmission line from demarc to modem is the remainng 90%

So maybe we should re name the process as "Transmission Line Optimisation", the purpose of this is to ensure the VDSL signal makes it in optimal condition to the modem.

Often in commerical situations the demarc is in the comms room where the modem is to go and its a naked connection, so yes no filter may have been installed, or if the line also provided a PABX voice line or fax a master filter or simple inline filter is used at the demarc to separate the services, so often its a lot less complex to deploy.

Cyril

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