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113 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 1396795 29-Sep-2015 19:46
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toejam316: I know I'm probably retreading ground, but just for posterity: Have you tried ensuring that your Modem is configured to exactly match the settings that BigPipe advises (Authentication, ATM, VPI, MTU, etc), and have you used one of the two Modems at an alternate location (if possible) to prove the issue isn't with the modem? My next question would be, BigPipe, can you ask Chorus or VisionStream about the assigned ports, or more specifically, which port he was on initially while having issues, and which port he is on now? A port on a different card may have a better outcome.


Yes, bearing in mind the exact same config has been working with other ISPs for years and a collegue's router is configured the same way.

The router is CLI driven (enterprise grade) and I don't touch the DSL config unless I need to :)

There is only jack point in my house wired directly to the ETP.

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BigPipe

  Reply # 1397559 30-Sep-2015 19:58
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Thanks for your patience while we've been investigating the issue on your line. We’ve been continuing to monitor your line for the issues you’ve been describing - however, we've been unable to capture any issue with your line or port. Along with the ping and MTR tests you’ve been doing, we’ve also been running ping tests and LQDs or ELTs on your line from our end to help work out where the issue lies.

Please have a look at the results from these tests below: The green line on the "Downstream bitrate" graph indicates the utilisation on your line during the testing period. We have also been running smoke ping to your connection for the last week - that graph is below.





The graph below is of ping, over a longer time scale.



Please note how the actual downstream bitrate closely resembles the increases in ping you’ve been experiencing.



The above image indicates that during the testing period the DSL did not drop out.

An increase in ping is expected when there is a lot of traffic moving on a line. This is expected behaviour, and cannot be avoided due to the nature of the connection. If, for example, there is a computer uploading data to Dropbox, or a phone streaming YouTube videos, it's likely you’ll notice that your ping increases, along with potential spikes in packet loss. This is especially noticeable on ADSL connections as there is less bandwidth available.

Based on our extensive investigation we’re confident that your line is working normally. The problems with ping you’ve been experiencing appear to be due to clients on your network using your connection.

At this stage there's nothing further we can do, but if you have any further queries just let us know.

[edited for formatting]




www.bigpipe.co.nz

 

https://www.facebook.com/BigPipeNZ

 

https://twitter.com/BigPipeNZ

 


 
 
 
 




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Master Geek
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  Reply # 1397659 30-Sep-2015 22:15
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Hi Josh, there are several gaping holes in your 'there's nothing wrong on our end, it must be that you're DLing too much' theory:

JoshBigpipe: 

Please note how the actual downstream bitrate closely resembles the increases in ping you’ve been experiencing.

[edited for formatting]


1) Look a little closer at the correlation between the downstream graph and response times.

- Take just after 1200 this morning for example, almost no downstream activity but huge latency spike - how is this "Closely resembling"???

This issue is not related to downstream rate.

2) How do you explain these physical errors on the debug output of my router?

*Sep 29 17:52:20:581 2015 rtr01 DRVDBG/7/debugging:(Atm0/0)PHY/ERR:DRV_IPC_PhyRcvFromRemote(1525): Error: IPC_DeFragment

3) How is it that these issues only started happening around 3 weeks ago with no change in pattern of user traffic? For the record we are actually very light users, Netflix for a couple of hours between 8-11 is about the heaviest our connection is used.

4) How is it that during one of the outages experienced last week, neither one of 2 modems could even sync at all?


What I am struggling with is that you will refuse to look outside the box of your standard tests. Why will you not even consider that there could be another  issue that doesn't present itself as a dodgy line?

Apart from line diagnostics, what troubleshooting have you done on your end?

I think its about time Bigpipe stop making me jump through hoops and own the issue instead of blaming it on me. The previous response displays incompetence as the graphs were completely misinterpreted.

I suggest you escalate this case within Chorus explaining everything that I have explained to you. I cannot be the only person in NZ that has experienced a problem like this.

A port change would be a completely logical and worthwhile troubleshooting step in this investigation, but perhaps an ISP change would be more effective.

And I really don't want to play this card, but the level of the previous post demands it - I have worked for an ISP, worked alongside Chorus provisioning connections and I am a L3/L4 Network & Security engineer dealing with large enterprise networks on a daily basis - I don't need to be lectured about dropbox uploads and the like, I just need you to fix my DSL connection please.

I should really be billing you for my time spent investigating your network problem...

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BigPipe

  Reply # 1398222 1-Oct-2015 18:31
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Hey,

After the troubleshooting done above, we’ve also gone to Chorus to request a port change, and we've copied them in on this thread. 

We had a lengthy discussion with them, and the long and short of it is they haven't done a port change. To quote Chorus - “under normal circumstances we would not consider changing a port unless we are seeing some sort of a problem, which we don’t. The team have checked the card and there are no indications of issues on the card as a whole”.

In summary, we’d like nothing more than to get this issue resolved for you, but if we’re nearing the full extent of what we can analyse and change - both in terms of what we can do and what Chorus can do. 

We’ll PM you with further details about what we can do going forward. 




www.bigpipe.co.nz

 

https://www.facebook.com/BigPipeNZ

 

https://twitter.com/BigPipeNZ

 


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Biddle Corp
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  Reply # 1398231 1-Oct-2015 18:56
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Can you definately rule out saturating your upstream? Because after reading this whole thread it's the first thing on my list of probable causes.

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  Reply # 1398257 1-Oct-2015 19:39
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sbiddle: Can you definately rule out saturating your upstream? Because after reading this whole thread it's the first thing on my list of probable causes.


And I really don't want to play this card, but the level of the previous post demands it - I have worked for an ISP, worked alongside Chorus provisioning connections and I am a L3/L4 Network & Security engineer dealing with large enterprise networks on a daily basis - I don't need to be lectured about dropbox uploads and the like, I just need you to fix my DSL connection please.


Apparently so



113 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 1398269 1-Oct-2015 20:12
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sbiddle: Can you definately rule out saturating your upstream? Because after reading this whole thread it's the first thing on my list of probable causes.


Yes, I've had situations where I have been unable to sync just a DV120 with nothing else plugged into it.

This is very different behaviour from when I actually was saturating my upstream uploading a whole lot of stuff to Amazon S3. I have a regular backup that runs at 0100 every Monday morning and even that isn't enough to kill my connection.

Although it seems that unless I was to plug in a brand spanking new router with factory settings, with nothing but a PC running ping tests for 24 hours, nobody will rule out my local network as a cause...


And just to put all arguements to rest, I have just reserved bandwidth for outbound ICMP. I will re-run the MTR tests and see if the latency spikes are still occuring...

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BigPipe

  Reply # 1398273 1-Oct-2015 20:39
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Although it seems that unless I was to plug in a brand spanking new router with factory settings, with nothing but a PC running ping tests for 24 hours, nobody will rule out my local network as a cause...



I realise this check is a nuisance, but: if you could try using just one router reset to factory settings, put in the Bigpipe connection defaults, disable all wifi and LAN connections but the one PC, and then check your network again / run your tests, then this will help us in advocating for your case for a port change with Chorus.




www.bigpipe.co.nz

 

https://www.facebook.com/BigPipeNZ

 

https://twitter.com/BigPipeNZ

 


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  Reply # 1398274 1-Oct-2015 20:43
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chrispchikin:

Although it seems that unless I was to plug in a brand spanking new router with factory settings, with nothing but a PC running ping tests for 24 hours, nobody will rule out my local network as a cause...


sometimes you just have to go right back the minimum in the aid of fault finding.

what can it hurt to rule something else out?



113 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 1398275 1-Oct-2015 20:47
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Jase2985:
chrispchikin:

Although it seems that unless I was to plug in a brand spanking new router with factory settings, with nothing but a PC running ping tests for 24 hours, nobody will rule out my local network as a cause...


sometimes you just have to go right back the minimum in the aid of fault finding.

what can it hurt to rule something else out?
'

It hurts the people in my family who are trying to work and use the internet. This has been going on for 4 weeks now.

I have already been back to the minimum and had no sync, as previously described. 



113 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 1398286 1-Oct-2015 20:51
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JoshBigpipe:
 

Although it seems that unless I was to plug in a brand spanking new router with factory settings, with nothing but a PC running ping tests for 24 hours, nobody will rule out my local network as a cause...



I realise this check is a nuisance, but: if you could try using just one router reset to factory settings, put in the Bigpipe connection defaults, disable all wifi and LAN connections but the one PC, and then check your network again / run your tests, then this will help us in advocating for your case for a port change with Chorus.


If it will mean that my LAN is not in question going forwards then I will set it up and run an MTR test overnight.

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  Reply # 1398289 1-Oct-2015 20:55
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unless you have called it something different or not mentioned it in here i cant see anywhere where it says you have factory reset the device and only had one device connected

if you want the connection fixed you will give that a go, if not, change ISP's and potentially face the same issues.

why not cancel your bigpipe connection and go to another ISP with no contract and try your connection like that, if it works cool you can tell bigpipe it was something in their end, if it doesnt, you end up eating humble pie.

i dont really see any other options.

the factory reset and the minor inconvenience is probably less annoying than trying to change ISP's

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BigPipe

  Reply # 1398290 1-Oct-2015 21:00
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chrispchikin:
JoshBigpipe:
 

Although it seems that unless I was to plug in a brand spanking new router with factory settings, with nothing but a PC running ping tests for 24 hours, nobody will rule out my local network as a cause...



I realise this check is a nuisance, but: if you could try using just one router reset to factory settings, put in the Bigpipe connection defaults, disable all wifi and LAN connections but the one PC, and then check your network again / run your tests, then this will help us in advocating for your case for a port change with Chorus.


If it will mean that my LAN is not in question going forwards then I will set it up and run an MTR test overnight.


Thanks. That will help. Incidentally, we are going to continue with the request for a port change. We want to get this resolved to everyone's satisfaction.  

I will be back here later - tomorrow, most likely - to let you know how things are going with Chorus. 




www.bigpipe.co.nz

 

https://www.facebook.com/BigPipeNZ

 

https://twitter.com/BigPipeNZ

 




113 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 1398294 1-Oct-2015 21:05
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Jase2985: unless you have called it something different or not mentioned it in here i cant see anywhere where it says you have factory reset the device and only had one device connected


No DSL sync is the minimum, while it hasn't been explicitly stated in this thread, it has been communicated to Bigpipe repeatedly that even a modem by itself doesn't work.


And no, I am not so stupid as to make such a big song and dance over an issue that I haven't thoroughly ruled out everything on my side.


Anyway, yes I am setting up to test overnight, for the sake of box ticking.



113 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 1398295 1-Oct-2015 21:13
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Jase2985: 
the factory reset and the minor inconvenience is probably less annoying than trying to change ISP's


And just for the record, one does not simply 'factory reset' enterprise grade kit. SOHO stuff yes.

It just doesn't work like that.

You don't hear the likes of Spark going and performing a write erase reload on their CLNEs, because for that sort of kit its not a sensible idea, that's what debugging is for.

Factory resetting gear really just masks problems like memory leaks and the like from poorly written software, but at the end of the day doesn't fix the root cause.


But again, for the sake of ticking the 'factory reset' box, I have just reset a DV120 that I have spare and will use that for the test.

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