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113 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 1398528 2-Oct-2015 10:32
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TimA:
chrispchikin:
TimA:
chrispchikin:

I know I could have said "It definitely supports QoS" but doesn't quite carry the same weight (excuse the pun :).

As above I am testing with a DV120 as often as I can get away with...


Can you see the traffic stats on that router for LAN devices?
Can you also throttle devices?



Not historically without SNMP monitoring.
Yes.


Can you change a setting in the QOS to always leave at least 200K spare of upload and download for HTTP and what ever else?
I wouldn't know have not been in IT for a year now.



I'm not interested in making any such changes until a root cause has been identified.

I will be continuing with the current troubleshooting approach.

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  Reply # 1398574 2-Oct-2015 11:12
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chrispchikin:
TimA:
chrispchikin:
TimA:
chrispchikin:

I know I could have said "It definitely supports QoS" but doesn't quite carry the same weight (excuse the pun :).

As above I am testing with a DV120 as often as I can get away with...


Can you see the traffic stats on that router for LAN devices?
Can you also throttle devices?



Not historically without SNMP monitoring.
Yes.


Can you change a setting in the QOS to always leave at least 200K spare of upload and download for HTTP and what ever else?
I wouldn't know have not been in IT for a year now.



I'm not interested in making any such changes until a root cause has been identified.

I will be continuing with the current troubleshooting approach.


Your testing in the right place now anyway. I am very certain you will find an issue with the QOS any day now.
Having dealt with over 100 of these examples every last one of them ended up being that.





 
 
 
 




113 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 1398984 2-Oct-2015 18:08
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Right, some results...

I haven't been able to test with just a single PC for very long yet - will look at that later tonight.

In the meantime I have acquired a device that can monitor bandwidth per client :)

Using DV120.

I am hammering my upload by uploading a file to Google Drive:



As you can see, throughput for this client is maxing out the DSL upstream:





MTR stats aren't great, fair amount of packet loss, some pretty high RTT's:



Yet, web requests aren't timing out, I'm not seeing the ridiculous response times of ~4000ms.

For fun, I'm also connected to a remote access VPN, syncing Outlook, and I can continue to browse the web (albeit a little slowly).

I can even stream a movie over Netflix.


This doesn't even come close to resembling the outages we've been experiencing for the last month.

So given that, I can comfortably rule out upstream saturation as the cause of the issue experienced.


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Master Geek
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BigPipe

  Reply # 1398985 2-Oct-2015 18:14
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chrispchikin: Right, some results...


Quick question: are you doing this testing with a router reset to factory, or are you using the same settings you've been using this whole time? 

 

Also, an update: we've escalated the port change request with the relevant people at Chorus and will keep you informed. 




www.bigpipe.co.nz

 

https://www.facebook.com/BigPipeNZ

 

https://twitter.com/BigPipeNZ

 




113 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 1399015 2-Oct-2015 18:28
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JoshBigpipe:
chrispchikin: Right, some results...


Quick question: are you doing this testing with a router reset to factory, or are you using the same settings you've been using this whole time?  Also, an update: we've escalated the port change request with the relevant people at Chorus and will keep you informed. 


Thanks Josh, I'm testing with factory reset DV120.

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Master Geek
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BigPipe

  Reply # 1399024 2-Oct-2015 19:04
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chrispchikin: Right, some results...

...Yet, web requests aren't timing out, I'm not seeing the ridiculous response times of ~4000ms.

For fun, I'm also connected to a remote access VPN, syncing Outlook, and I can continue to browse the web (albeit a little slowly).

I can even stream a movie over Netflix.


This doesn't even come close to resembling the outages we've been experiencing for the last month.

So given that, I can comfortably rule out upstream saturation as the cause of the issue experienced.



chrispchikin:
JoshBigpipe:
chrispchikin: Right, some results...


Quick question: are you doing this testing with a router reset to factory, or are you using the same settings you've been using this whole time?


Thanks Josh, I'm testing with factory reset DV120.


I don't want to jump the gun here, but... from what you've just said, it looks like your connection is working fine when you're using your factory reset modem with the Bigpipe default settings...




www.bigpipe.co.nz

 

https://www.facebook.com/BigPipeNZ

 

https://twitter.com/BigPipeNZ

 


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Biddle Corp
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  Reply # 1399067 2-Oct-2015 19:45
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chrispchikin:

So given that, I can comfortably rule out upstream saturation as the cause of the issue experienced.



So you're using completely different hardware during this testing? If so you can't rule this out, and it still fits in as being a possible cause.





113 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 1399136 2-Oct-2015 21:51
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sbiddle:
chrispchikin:

So given that, I can comfortably rule out upstream saturation as the cause of the issue experienced.



So you're using completely different hardware during this testing? If so you can't rule this out, and it still fits in as being a possible cause.




OK back to the drawing board it is...

Some more results, testing with iperf outbound: 'iperf3 -u -c 3.testdebit.info -t 1000'

This truly does bring the upstream to its knees and replicate the symptoms of the issue.

[ 4] 133.01-134.01 sec 128 KBytes 1.05 Mbits/sec 16
[ 4] 134.01-135.01 sec 128 KBytes 1.05 Mbits/sec 16

1) HP MSR 935, with just the config required to make the DSL go with one client

MTR results to Bigpipe DNS around ~4000ms

2) Draytek DV120

Almost 100% timeouts


So not a hardware specific issue.

Still doesn't officially rule out my LAN, I know, but I will have some more stats shortly.


In thinking about all of this and the history of events, I think there were definite physical issues that were repaired by the tech fixing loose connections at the ETP and exchange which has stopped the re-trains.

I agree, the remaining issue 'feels' like it is contention related but it still doesn't explain the 5Mbps difference in sync speed on the other port the tech tried, and doesn't explain the physical errors in the debug logs from my router.







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  Reply # 1399175 3-Oct-2015 00:19
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chrispchikin:
sbiddle:
chrispchikin:

So given that, I can comfortably rule out upstream saturation as the cause of the issue experienced.



So you're using completely different hardware during this testing? If so you can't rule this out, and it still fits in as being a possible cause.




OK back to the drawing board it is...

Some more results, testing with iperf outbound: 'iperf3 -u -c 3.testdebit.info -t 1000'

This truly does bring the upstream to its knees and replicate the symptoms of the issue.

[ 4] 133.01-134.01 sec 128 KBytes 1.05 Mbits/sec 16
[ 4] 134.01-135.01 sec 128 KBytes 1.05 Mbits/sec 16

1) HP MSR 935, with just the config required to make the DSL go with one client

MTR results to Bigpipe DNS around ~4000ms

2) Draytek DV120

Almost 100% timeouts


So not a hardware specific issue.

Still doesn't officially rule out my LAN, I know, but I will have some more stats shortly.


In thinking about all of this and the history of events, I think there were definite physical issues that were repaired by the tech fixing loose connections at the ETP and exchange which has stopped the re-trains.

I agree, the remaining issue 'feels' like it is contention related but it still doesn't explain the 5Mbps difference in sync speed on the other port the tech tried, and doesn't explain the physical errors in the debug logs from my router.








I think it would be fair to say your stretching your little DSL line to its limits :)

As physics would state, No two copper lines are the same. Especially after 50 years of being buried in a damp earth.
So it could have been just that line is better, Or even your modem connected with a lower SNR.








113 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 1399212 3-Oct-2015 09:10
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I've been made an offer I can't refuse from a friend's ISP, as such I'll be requesting a disconnection from Bigpipe.

Thanks for all of your help Bigpipe, took a bit of pressure but in the end you really came to the party and provided information in a public forum.

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  Reply # 1399223 3-Oct-2015 09:30
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I do hope you update this thread with whether it fixes it or not. I'm still very much of the opinion the issue is likely to be upstream congestion and the configuration of your network, so changing ISPs won't fix the problem if it is the issue.



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  Reply # 1399309 3-Oct-2015 13:08
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sbiddle: I do hope you update this thread with whether it fixes it or not. I'm still very much of the opinion the issue is likely to be upstream congestion and the configuration of your network, so changing ISPs won't fix the problem if it is the issue.




Steve, he himself 100% proved it was not the bigpipe network at fault.

And I really don't want to play this card
"I am a L3/L4 Network & Security engineer dealing with large enterprise networks on a daily basis"
If your employer saw this thread they would think twice about your position mate - At least if i was your employer i would.







113 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 1399326 3-Oct-2015 13:29
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TimA:
sbiddle: I do hope you update this thread with whether it fixes it or not. I'm still very much of the opinion the issue is likely to be upstream congestion and the configuration of your network, so changing ISPs won't fix the problem if it is the issue.




Steve, he himself 100% proved it was not the bigpipe network at fault.

And I really don't want to play this card
"I am a L3/L4 Network & Security engineer dealing with large enterprise networks on a daily basis"
If your employer saw this thread they would think twice about your position mate - At least if i was your employer i would.


No, I haven't proved it wasn't Bigpipe, what I have proved is that running iperf on a DSL connection kills it, but that will happen on DSL connection.

I would happily show this thread and the statement above to my employer, but if I were you I would leave personal comments such as yours out of this discussion.

And I gave you a free router, so be nice :)

4911 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 1399347 3-Oct-2015 13:39
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chrispchikin:
TimA:
sbiddle: I do hope you update this thread with whether it fixes it or not. I'm still very much of the opinion the issue is likely to be upstream congestion and the configuration of your network, so changing ISPs won't fix the problem if it is the issue.




Steve, he himself 100% proved it was not the bigpipe network at fault.

And I really don't want to play this card
"I am a L3/L4 Network & Security engineer dealing with large enterprise networks on a daily basis"
If your employer saw this thread they would think twice about your position mate - At least if i was your employer i would.


No, I haven't proved it wasn't Bigpipe, what I have proved is that running iperf on a DSL connection kills it, but that will happen on DSL connection.

I would happily show this thread and the statement above to my employer, but if I were you I would leave personal comments such as yours out of this discussion.

And I gave you a free router, so be nice :)


Haha for the banter matey all for the banter.

I ran iperf from my VDSL to a local server just then and i can still browse sweet and stream even tho the connection is flat lining.







113 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 1399350 3-Oct-2015 13:43
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TimA:
chrispchikin:
TimA:
sbiddle: I do hope you update this thread with whether it fixes it or not. I'm still very much of the opinion the issue is likely to be upstream congestion and the configuration of your network, so changing ISPs won't fix the problem if it is the issue.




Steve, he himself 100% proved it was not the bigpipe network at fault.

And I really don't want to play this card
"I am a L3/L4 Network & Security engineer dealing with large enterprise networks on a daily basis"
If your employer saw this thread they would think twice about your position mate - At least if i was your employer i would.


No, I haven't proved it wasn't Bigpipe, what I have proved is that running iperf on a DSL connection kills it, but that will happen on DSL connection.

I would happily show this thread and the statement above to my employer, but if I were you I would leave personal comments such as yours out of this discussion.

And I gave you a free router, so be nice :)


Haha for the banter matey all for the banter.

I ran iperf from my VDSL to a local server just then and i can still browse sweet and stream even tho the connection is flat lining.


So that would suggest an xDSL connection should be able to cope, yet mine doesn't.

I'd be curious to see your sync speed and iperf speed (with UDP).

Would you mind running iperf and a continuous ping to your ISP's DNS server and seeing if iperf kills that?

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