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'That VDSL Cat'
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  Reply # 2042159 22-Jun-2018 09:28
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Modems do fail... Often they are replaced unnecessarily imo.
Your problem description here compared to the first post is very different though...

Are you actually loosing dsl?




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  Reply # 2042163 22-Jun-2018 09:35
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Handle9:
nunz:

 

Handle9:

 

ISPs do offer business SLAs. The client has to pay for that type of plan. If you want an SLA BigPipe isn't the correct type of ISP for this.

 

 

Where? Tried getting them from 2Talk sales and failed, tried talking to Sparks sales and failed. Bigpipe don't offer them. so where?  The SLA's  / enterprise level support from Spark (via their enterprise numbers) dont work outside of 9-5 so completely useless for weekend opening businesses.

 



Spark, along with most business isps, offer offer 24x7 support. Their sales and associated account staff are only available during business hours. You can also pay for a managed product, with an associated level of performance, cost and support.

http://www.sparkdigital.co.nz/solutions/connectivity/internet-service/

If you want guaranteed uptime etc then you're not going to get that for $100-200 a month. There's not enough margin in the products and the infrastructure isn't designed to support it. You need to go to a higher end offering which will often get built for you as a customised product.

2Talk and Bigpipe are budget offerings with an associated level of support. In bigpipes case they are explicit that they offer a product designed for residential customers and they aren't a business provider. It's how they are able to offer such a cheap product.

 

Sparks enterprise level is run by what is left of genii after they were absorbed. it is a 9-5, 5 days per week offering which is useless for those working after hours or weekeneds. Further more the times i have dealt with enterprise Support it has been less helpful than those poor under resourced folks from the Philipines or Mumbai (or where ever it is they are porting their support calls to now days) have been. And that is saying something.

 

We had enterprise networks and enterprise mail and both have been less than adequate with unsatisfactory levels of support. every support call has failed to be responded to or resolved in a timely fashion.

 

We moved to Snap as they had great support and technical staff. Unfortunately they got gutted when taken by 2degrees. We no longer touch 2Degrees after some spectacular failures and complete lack of support. Their staff were completely incompetent, there is no way to escalate and they will not let you get past the list quoting front end newbies.

 

We tried bigpipe as at least they seemed responsive and capable. They were - until recently when re-introduced back into the Spark system .Complete failure of support since then.

 

We were with vodafone but after politely bringing up an issue (that wasn't resolved after 1 week or longer)  and not complaining but laying out a list of what we were struggling with, our attempts at resolution and asking if anyone at GZ had any ideas - ended up with VF threatening our CEO. We will never go near them again as their bully boy tactics are completely unacceptable.

 

So now i'm looking for a technically competent, responsive ISP to work with. they don't have to be perfect (snap wasn't) but they need to take responsibility and work to resolve issues and treat technically literate people with some level of respect - not pushing dumb ideas off a list. Snap did. Big Pipe did. RIP both of them.

 

 





nunz

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  Reply # 2042165 22-Jun-2018 09:39
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Sounds like you should be paying for a business grade ISP with agreed SLA's (managed service) 24/7 

 

Dedicated number to call that will not be routed to the consumer call centre but a business call centre

 

You will get advised of planned outages ahead of time that could impact a internet connection and you be advised of unplanned outages

 

I can tell you now many ISP's offer this but it's not going to be cheap

 

Thousands of $$$ per month

 

John





Ex JohnR VodafoneNZ 17 years 4 days



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  Reply # 2042182 22-Jun-2018 09:46
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hio77: Modems do fail... Often they are replaced unnecessarily imo.
Your problem description here compared to the first post is very different though...

Are you actually loosing dsl?

 

My first post was asking if any BP people are here and can they help. We need to talk to them to get this resolved.

 

No not losing DSL .Thus their continued requests to try different jacks (which we cant - hard wired dedicated line) is a dumb waste of time. It is not a layer 1 / 2 issue. They took 7.5 hours and some very strong heckling from me to actually  start a line check. an hour on chat telling them I have reconnections and them saying they cant see that. Basically dont believe me even when I sent a screen shot from inside the network.

 

We need them to pull finger and talk to us to resolve this. so far they haven't done anything other than say we are not authenticated (which is obviously not a user / pass problem as we get intermittent re-connections). They failed to believe me when I told them we were getting reconnections.

 

 

 

So far they have told me to:

 

  • Try a differnt jack ( DSL shows not layer 1 issue) and we are hard wired and it is in a locked cabinet and no one has been near it in months
  • Change modem settings (from the settings we have to identical settings).
  • We had already rebooted modem
  • Reboot modem and insert identical settings (already rebooted)
  • Factory reset modem (losing tons of settings) and install identical settings.

 

 

The reconnects show settings are not the issue.

 

We need better diagnostics about what is happening at their end.

 

TR out of the system shows failures of response in the first 2-5 steps out of the router. No BP gateway response to pings / TR. TR in reverse direction shows slow response and lack of response even when the line is up.

 

All internal networks are responding in sub 1ms times.

 

 

 

 





nunz



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  Reply # 2042183 22-Jun-2018 09:48
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Linux:

 

Sounds like you should be paying for a business grade ISP with agreed SLA's (managed service) 24/7 

 

Dedicated number to call that will not be routed to the consumer call centre but a business call centre

 

You will get advised of planned outages ahead of time that could impact a internet connection and you be advised of unplanned outages

 

I can tell you now many ISP's offer this but it's not going to be cheap

 

Thousands of $$$ per month

 

John

 

 

Had it with Telecom. Failed with Telecom. Slow, didn't make speeds we were told it would. didn't respond when it failed.  when you have 5 business centres with a central VPN, taking hundreds of calls and bookings, without internet - so they cant - that really blows!! 

 

 





nunz

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  Reply # 2042186 22-Jun-2018 09:55
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nunz:

 

Linux:

 

Sounds like you should be paying for a business grade ISP with agreed SLA's (managed service) 24/7 

 

Dedicated number to call that will not be routed to the consumer call centre but a business call centre

 

You will get advised of planned outages ahead of time that could impact a internet connection and you be advised of unplanned outages

 

I can tell you now many ISP's offer this but it's not going to be cheap

 

Thousands of $$$ per month

 

John

 

 

Had it with Telecom. Failed with Telecom. Slow, didn't make speeds we were told it would. didn't respond when it failed.  when you have 5 business centres with a central VPN, taking hundreds of calls and bookings, without internet - so they cant - that really blows!! 

 

 

You must of been compensated well then as a true SLA business agreement would mean Telecom / Spark would of had to pay you

 

John





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  Reply # 2042250 22-Jun-2018 10:11
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nunz:

 

Sparks enterprise level is run by what is left of genii after they were absorbed. it is a 9-5, 5 days per week offering which is useless for those working after hours or weekeneds. Further more the times i have dealt with enterprise Support it has been less helpful than those poor under resourced folks from the Philipines or Mumbai (or where ever it is they are porting their support calls to now days) have been. And that is saying something.

 

We had enterprise networks and enterprise mail and both have been less than adequate with unsatisfactory levels of support. every support call has failed to be responded to or resolved in a timely fashion.

 

We moved to Snap as they had great support and technical staff. Unfortunately they got gutted when taken by 2degrees. We no longer touch 2Degrees after some spectacular failures and complete lack of support. Their staff were completely incompetent, there is no way to escalate and they will not let you get past the list quoting front end newbies.

 

We tried bigpipe as at least they seemed responsive and capable. They were - until recently when re-introduced back into the Spark system .Complete failure of support since then.

 

We were with vodafone but after politely bringing up an issue (that wasn't resolved after 1 week or longer)  and not complaining but laying out a list of what we were struggling with, our attempts at resolution and asking if anyone at GZ had any ideas - ended up with VF threatening our CEO. We will never go near them again as their bully boy tactics are completely unacceptable.

 

So now i'm looking for a technically competent, responsive ISP to work with. they don't have to be perfect (snap wasn't) but they need to take responsibility and work to resolve issues and treat technically literate people with some level of respect - not pushing dumb ideas off a list. Snap did. Big Pipe did. RIP both of them.

 

 

It doesn't sound like your were dealing with enterprise support - it sounds like a standard ADSL/VDSL/UFB product from the SME desk. Enterprise support is a different beast (our experience of both Vodafone and Spark support is very good) and has a different price tag. You do not buy this for $79 a month. You need to engage with an account manager and contract an appropriate SLA.

 

Bigpipe are a consumer organisation offering a low cost product. It's similar to expecting business class on Jetstar. They aren't setup for that type of offering, especially as they have scaled up. 

 

When I see Bigpipe and 2Talk and then asking about SLAs I really question the procurement process your organisation/customers are following. It seems like not doing due diligence about what you are buying. These are both bare bones products offered with very little support.

 

It doesn't excuse poor service but if you don't buy a product that is offered with an SLA then it really is a case of caveat emptor. If the provider offers an SLA and doesn't meet it then that is a different story.




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  Reply # 2042304 22-Jun-2018 10:57
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Handle9:

 

nunz:

 

Sparks enterprise level is run by what is left of genii after they were absorbed. it is a 9-5, 5 days per week offering which is useless for those working after hours or weekeneds. Further more the times i have dealt with enterprise Support it has been less helpful than those poor under resourced folks from the Philipines or Mumbai (or where ever it is they are porting their support calls to now days) have been. And that is saying something.

 

We had enterprise networks and enterprise mail and both have been less than adequate with unsatisfactory levels of support. every support call has failed to be responded to or resolved in a timely fashion.

 

We moved to Snap as they had great support and technical staff. Unfortunately they got gutted when taken by 2degrees. We no longer touch 2Degrees after some spectacular failures and complete lack of support. Their staff were completely incompetent, there is no way to escalate and they will not let you get past the list quoting front end newbies.

 

We tried bigpipe as at least they seemed responsive and capable. They were - until recently when re-introduced back into the Spark system .Complete failure of support since then.

 

We were with vodafone but after politely bringing up an issue (that wasn't resolved after 1 week or longer)  and not complaining but laying out a list of what we were struggling with, our attempts at resolution and asking if anyone at GZ had any ideas - ended up with VF threatening our CEO. We will never go near them again as their bully boy tactics are completely unacceptable.

 

So now i'm looking for a technically competent, responsive ISP to work with. they don't have to be perfect (snap wasn't) but they need to take responsibility and work to resolve issues and treat technically literate people with some level of respect - not pushing dumb ideas off a list. Snap did. Big Pipe did. RIP both of them.

 

 

It doesn't sound like your were dealing with enterprise support - it sounds like a standard ADSL/VDSL/UFB product from the SME desk. Enterprise support is a different beast (our experience of both Vodafone and Spark support is very good) and has a different price tag. You do not buy this for $79 a month. You need to engage with an account manager and contract an appropriate SLA.

 

Bigpipe are a consumer organisation offering a low cost product. It's similar to expecting business class on Jetstar. They aren't setup for that type of offering, especially as they have scaled up. 

 

When I see Bigpipe and 2Talk and then asking about SLAs I really question the procurement process your organisation/customers are following. It seems like not doing due diligence about what you are buying. These are both bare bones products offered with very little support.

 

It doesn't excuse poor service but if you don't buy a product that is offered with an SLA then it really is a case of caveat emptor. If the provider offers an SLA and doesn't meet it then that is a different story.

 

 

 

 

The line was over $1500 per month( per leg) and was one of their guaranteed speed products just prior to the quakes. when it went down we got the Geni - we only work 9-5 Mon to friday response. two days with no internet - we ended up using a long range wireless product back to our receiver on the hills. It was their enterprise guaranteed backbone product.

 

Current client is with Telecom business for their emails. It went down earlier this year. Support was - we cant see issues at our end - despite all the settings being fine etc. Turned out to be their issue - something to do with a change in security settings that made issues at our end. Again the response was same as all over - not our fault. That despite nothing changing at our clients site. However changes to DNS and/or security protocols / and or security certs do cause issues.

 

As for compensation - who cares. I would rather have someone work on an issue and fix it than spend weeks / months diddling with lawyers re compensation that didn't cover the cost of lost business and lost productivity.

 

A good name is worth more than rubies and gold. - Broken businesses lose their good names.

 

 

 

Hey @BigPipeNZ - still no internet. Still no responses. Still no support. Are you there? do you care?

 

 

 

 





nunz



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  Reply # 2042308 22-Jun-2018 11:13
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Handle9:
nunz:

 

Handle9:

 

ISPs do offer business SLAs. The client has to pay for that type of plan. If you want an SLA BigPipe isn't the correct type of ISP for this.

 

 

Where? Tried getting them from 2Talk sales and failed, tried talking to Sparks sales and failed. Bigpipe don't offer them. so where?  The SLA's  / enterprise level support from Spark (via their enterprise numbers) dont work outside of 9-5 so completely useless for weekend opening businesses.

 



...

2Talk and Bigpipe are budget offerings with an associated level of support. In bigpipes case they are explicit that they offer a product designed for residential customers and they aren't a business provider. It's how they are able to offer such a cheap product.

 

They say 2 hour response to ticket. That is acceptable at this site. There are no fibre connections there. The best we can hope for is DSL based lines.

 

BP used to be competent and worth dealing with - that's disappeared.

 

I can handle down time. What i cant handle is no damned response.

 

I'm incredibly forgiving of mistakes - I am not so much on apathy and a failure to engage and / or escalate.

 

Work with me - you'll find me great to deal with, a great customer to have and supportive of you.

 

Ignore me, lie to me, fail to engage and you'll have a monster on your hands. I've learnt that often the only way to get through is to make so much noise and pain that they have to engage. 15 years of dealing with education and health services for disabled kids, social services for clients and with  telecoms have taught me that polite engagement normally gets you no where. Polite attempts at escalation gt you no  where.  Riding rough shod over people and making them do things they refuse to do - e.g the basics like checking stuff, escalation, getting their super visors etc - often gets results. Sad but true.

 

 

 

Have a ticket open with a cloud provider in NZ. 5 days no emails working. Ignored, unanswered tickets etc. Now getting phone calls every hour asking where the damned phone call promised nnn times is.  finally got a response - but after 4 days of polite - I got out my kicking boots and aggressive persona. Working a charm. Very very very sad.

 

 





nunz



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  Reply # 2042310 22-Jun-2018 11:19
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Handle9:

 

nunz:

 

....

 

So now i'm looking for a technically competent, responsive ISP to work with. they don't have to be perfect (snap wasn't) but they need to take responsibility and work to resolve issues and treat technically literate people with some level of respect - not pushing dumb ideas off a list. Snap did. Big Pipe did. RIP both of them.

 

 

...As I really question the procurement process your organisation/customers are following. It seems like not doing due diligence about what you are buying. These are both bare bones products offered with very little support.

 

It doesn't excuse poor service but if you don't buy a product that is offered with an SLA then it really is a case of caveat emptor. If the provider offers an SLA and doesn't meet it then that is a different story.

 

 

Under NZ law - what BP say is part of the contract we made by giving them money:

 

They say:

 

  • You can send us a message anytime using the Contact Us form at our Support Centre. Our team will respond to you between 8am and 10pm, 7 days a week.
  • We'll do our best to get back to you within 2 hours for connection issues and 24 hours for all other issues and enquiries.

Under sale of goods / consumers guarantees etc act - they need to live up to something close to this. The law says so. That's diligence. What they say in their advertising is legally binding.

 

To pay thousands of dollars per month is not viable for many businesses. I used to pay $2500 per month. After that was not worth spit I stopped paying. it wasn't worth the money. SLA agreements - nice idea - bad implementation and horrific costs.

 

 





nunz

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  Reply # 2042324 22-Jun-2018 12:04
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Hi @nunz

 

Sorry to hear you're having trouble with your connection.

 

I can see a staff member is currently investigating your problem and will be in touch shortly via email.





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  Reply # 2042334 22-Jun-2018 12:10
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I think you are being unrealistic in what you are expecting. You've gone for one of the lowest possible cost providers in a segment where there is literally no margin. You've also chosen a provider which explicitly says they aren't a business provider. You've chosen a provider that doesn't have a help desk you can call. You are then complaining that you are getting a response that a joe average consumer would get and you can't get access to a better level of support.

 

These are conscious business decisions - personally I have no problem with it but when it goes wrong you're left in the position you are in. This is a conscious decision that someone has made in choosing bigpipe as a provider. It doesn't sound like they are providing a good service but you've consciously chosen to go with this type of offering.

 

You've said it's not viable to pay for an greater level of service. If a business makes that decision then it needs to also have a backup plan when things go wrong. That is the reality of what due diligence means, not reading a marketing blurb.




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  Reply # 2042541 22-Jun-2018 17:15
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Handle9:

 

I think you are being unrealistic in what you are expecting. You've gone for one of the lowest possible cost providers in a segment where there is literally no margin. You've also chosen a provider which explicitly says they aren't a business provider. You've chosen a provider that doesn't have a help desk you can call. You are then complaining that you are getting a response that a joe average consumer would get and you can't get access to a better level of support.

 

These are conscious business decisions - personally I have no problem with it but when it goes wrong you're left in the position you are in. This is a conscious decision that someone has made in choosing bigpipe as a provider. It doesn't sound like they are providing a good service but you've consciously chosen to go with this type of offering.

 

You've said it's not viable to pay for an greater level of service. If a business makes that decision then it needs to also have a backup plan when things go wrong. That is the reality of what due diligence means, not reading a marketing blurb.

 

 

 

 

Close but not quite. We made a decision to go with a provider who had a reputation for good service. Price was not the deciding factor. There are cheaper options.  Since being moved to Telecom the service has deteriorated.

 

We have tried spending vast wads of cash for enterprise level support and never got what we paid for. We got better support (ie outside of M - F, 9-5) from non business desk.

 

We avoided other providers whose support options included telephone, chat and other options as those were not effective ways to engage. We spent more time on the phone than we cared to. We tried BP out on a couple of connections, including my home one, and found them great. Unfortunately that is not the case now.

 

We asked them about their response times and 2 hours was acceptable. 1.5 days to get movement is not.

 

 

 

Look its like buying tools at Bunnings or Mitre 10. My grandfathers tools (like F clamps) are ages old and still work. Try buying stuff like that at the afore mentioned shops. You cant. It is a price driven market and no matter how much you spend you do not get what you need. it is impossible.  Why? Coz the market has driven the price through the floor. That's IT al over and it sucks. Whats worse is cloud services and offshore systems are guaranteeing that continues. It is a bad trend.

 

No matter how much i want to spend the results are budget. I've psent thousands and got crap response and bad product. I'vepaid for the good stuff nad had nothing but pain. Money is not the issue - its the quality of the organisation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 





nunz

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  Reply # 2042554 22-Jun-2018 18:15
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@nunz @BigPipeNZ Please keep us updated once the issue is resolved so we actually know what the issue was

 

John





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  Reply # 2042558 22-Jun-2018 18:22
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I was going to suggest Voyager, but you sound like you want some sort of dedicated SLA, which I don't know if they offer.


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