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Topic # 148913 5-Jul-2014 10:39
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David Gilespie, a lawyer who's done an extensive research review, claims that seed oils like rice brain oils is pretty bad for you, excerpt below from here.

We’ve been told that the secret to curing heart disease is to consume unsaturated vegetable oils rather than saturated animal fats. So now all the fats in our processed foods are labelled ‘vegetable oil’ and the labels are rarely more specific than that. The irony is that there is no such thing as oil from a vegetable. The products being pushed as vegetable oils are in fact fruit oils (coconut, palm, olive or avocado), nut oils (macadamia, peanut, pecan, and so on) or seed oils (canola, sunflower, soybean, grapeseed or rice bran). There’s nothing much wrong with fruit oils and some nut oils are okay, too. But seed oils are extraordinarily dangerous. And unfortunately they make up almost all of the ‘vegetable oils’ in our food.


About David


I am not telling you this because I am a ‘greenie’, a conspiracy theorist or a herbal jerbal knit-your-own-food purveyor. I am telling you because if you knew this (and could prove it) and didn’t tell me and my family, I’d be furious with you. I am not a doctor or a nutritionist. I have no formal training in human biochemistry or even chemistry. I am a lawyer and the only relevant skill I bring to the table is an ability to gather, understand and synthesise evidence. Science is based on people making hypotheses about how things might work and then collecting evidence that will prove them right (or wrong). Just like law, science should be all about the evidence. However, when it comes to the river of gold that is the processed food industry, evidence runs smack bang into commercial interest and, unfortunately for us, commercial interest generally wins out.


David's the person who was at or near the spearhead of the "sugar is bad for you, not fat" movement with his book "Sweet Poison", which is rapidly gaining mainstream acceptance. Is he right again, or is he just blowing smoke?




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  Reply # 1081335 5-Jul-2014 10:47
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So, seed oils are "extraordinarily dangerous" and yet they're consumed in large quantities by billions of people with no apparent adverse effects.  The engineer in me is struggling see how both these statements can be true



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  Reply # 1081339 5-Jul-2014 10:50
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shk292: So, seed oils are "extraordinarily dangerous" and yet they're consumed in large quantities by billions of people with no apparent adverse effects.  The engineer in me is struggling see how both these statements can be true


Obesity, heart disease, and cancer rates have skyrocketed in the past 50 odd years, since these developments have come about. Determining the exact cause would be difficult, but I think that's located your adverse effects.




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  Reply # 1081360 5-Jul-2014 11:10
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timmmay:
shk292: So, seed oils are "extraordinarily dangerous" and yet they're consumed in large quantities by billions of people with no apparent adverse effects.  The engineer in me is struggling see how both these statements can be true


Obesity, heart disease, and cancer rates have skyrocketed in the past 50 odd years, since these developments have come about. Determining the exact cause would be difficult, but I think that's located your adverse effects.

Hmm, good point.  Presumably he has some evidence to show a causal relationship between these diseases and the consumption of seed oils.  I would have thought that if there is, then then national health authorities will be pretty quick to warn people about this - those diseases are huge consumers of health resources and if they can be reduced simply, then it's a no-brainer.



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  Reply # 1081363 5-Jul-2014 11:14
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I haven't read the oil book, but the sugar book put together a pretty good case. You could probably put together a pretty good book proving the opposite too, by choosing your studies carefully.

The food industry is massive with huge influence and deep pockets. Cheap food tends to be less healthy, and profitable, they probably value profits over people - case in point the tobacco industry. Over the past 20-30 years things like "fat is bad for you" have been said so often it's perhaps difficult for governments to change their tune. I think things are changing, slowly.

I'm not saying he's right, but given there are alternatives that are about the same price and are generally just as good I'll head toward what he recommends. I switched back to olive oil, for example, even though it's not really as good for cooking.




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  Reply # 1081370 5-Jul-2014 11:28
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timmmay:
shk292: So, seed oils are "extraordinarily dangerous" and yet they're consumed in large quantities by billions of people with no apparent adverse effects.  The engineer in me is struggling see how both these statements can be true


Obesity, heart disease, and cancer rates have skyrocketed in the past 50 odd years, since these developments have come about. Determining the exact cause would be difficult, but I think that's located your adverse effects.


Read his other book Big Fat Lies if you want a more extensive explanation of the saturated vs mono/poly-unsaturated fats. Including references to peer reviewed studies into human reaction to the different fats.
Using your engineer's logic*, tobacco was smoked by billions of people as well for many years before it was decided that there were adverse health effects. Likewise apply engineer's logic* to global warming.
Another resource that may be of interest is the BBC series The Men Who Made Us Fat . Quite an eye opener as to howa few people with influence can affect billions.

* By the way I am an engineer.




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  Reply # 1081408 5-Jul-2014 12:33
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Dingbatt:
timmmay:
shk292: So, seed oils are "extraordinarily dangerous" and yet they're consumed in large quantities by billions of people with no apparent adverse effects.  The engineer in me is struggling see how both these statements can be true


Obesity, heart disease, and cancer rates have skyrocketed in the past 50 odd years, since these developments have come about. Determining the exact cause would be difficult, but I think that's located your adverse effects.


Read his other book Big Fat Lies if you want a more extensive explanation of the saturated vs mono/poly-unsaturated fats. Including references to peer reviewed studies into human reaction to the different fats.
Using your engineer's logic*, tobacco was smoked by billions of people as well for many years before it was decided that there were adverse health effects. Likewise apply engineer's logic* to global warming.
Another resource that may be of interest is the BBC series The Men Who Made Us Fat . Quite an eye opener as to howa few people with influence can affect billions.

* By the way I am an engineer.

The problem is, people can make a convincing case in a book or a website for almost anything.  You just have to read some of the stuff on RF radiation from smart meters, the anti-vaccination rubbish, etc etc.  So I have no doubt that he makes a convincing case in his book.  And the smoking analogy is a very valid one - as is asbestos.  It's all very difficult - if you believed every scary thing that is published, you do and eat virtually nothing.
As for global warming, I have to say I'm very sceptical.  But that's another topic a;together

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  Reply # 1081409 5-Jul-2014 12:38
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I avoid seed oils, purely because I cannot be 100% certain the source isn't GMO - and I prefer to avoid GMO when there are better alternatives available.

 

Edit: Also didn't realise rice bran is one of the bad guys. Might have to modify my handmade soap recipes to stop using it now, bother. :(




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  Reply # 1081413 5-Jul-2014 12:49
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let's break down the issues (note I did not read the page but I've heard of the arguments)

-- a high LDL:HDL is known to cause heart disease. that is FACT.
-- trans fat is known to cause heart disease. that is FACT.
-- family history of heart disease predicts heart disease regardless of any other factors. FACT.


- saturated fat is believed to be bad because it raises LDL and lowers HDL
- unsaturated fat does the exact opposite

- he says there are 2 types of LDL and saturated fat increases the good LDL while unsaturated fat has the opposite.
- that is not known. it takes years of research to show something. if people research it. research costs money. companies only want to do research if it brings them money.

I'd say everything in moderation. Including exercise. Oh, and Pick your parents wisely.

Edit: there are a lot more things to worry about than which fats to eat.
1) smoking and diabetes probably kills you faster (if your genes were susceptible) than highish LDL cholesterol
2) processed foods causes cancer
3) how much fat vs which fat
etc ...

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  Reply # 1081447 5-Jul-2014 13:28
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timmmay:
shk292: So, seed oils are "extraordinarily dangerous" and yet they're consumed in large quantities by billions of people with no apparent adverse effects.  The engineer in me is struggling see how both these statements can be true


Obesity, heart disease, and cancer rates have skyrocketed in the past 50 odd years, since these developments have come about. Determining the exact cause would be difficult, but I think that's located your adverse effects.


I think it's a bit of a stretch to say that cancer rates are "skyrocketing". We have made huge progress in combatting other chronic diseases, hence people are living longer which makes them more likely to ultimately succumb to cancer.

Obesity and heart disease are probably the result of more obvious factors such as excessive consumption of fast food and soft drinks. 

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  Reply # 1081554 5-Jul-2014 18:02
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joker97: let's break down the issues (note I did not read the page but I've heard of the arguments)

-- a high LDL:HDL is known to cause heart disease. that is FACT.
.


Not fact.  The theory now is that Atherosclerosis is formed by cholesterols only when there is inflammation of the blood vessels.  Many can live with high cholesterols with no heart disease as they are missing the inflammation required to lead to heart disease.

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  Reply # 1081822 6-Jul-2014 13:30
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i meant linked. that is fact.

What does this tag do
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  Reply # 1083839 8-Jul-2014 07:42
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I haven't got the book, and haven't looked for any academia supporting it, but I know the sugar book is getting well backed up by research so I wouldn't be surprised.
I mainly use Coconut Oil or Olive Oil anyway, blue milk, proper butter. Seems sensible to mix any foods we are eating up a bit anyway i.e. using a range of flours, oils, etc.
I think I prefer Sarah Wilson's explanation of the sugar stuff though. Lower carbs as well which I'm not sure if David got across clearly.

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  Reply # 1083841 8-Jul-2014 07:49
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Every year a new book claiming definitive proof that of course debunks what came before. There is little why the majority ignore, its the boy that cried wolf thing.




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  Reply # 1083907 8-Jul-2014 09:25
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I am no expert, but aren't all the sources referred to in the initial post seeds of some sort or another?

Google definition "seed"

 

seed

 

siːd/

 

noun

 

noun: seed; plural noun: seeds; noun: seed crystal; plural noun: seed crystals

 

     

  1.  

     

     

    1.

     

     

     

    the unit of reproduction of a flowering plant, capable of developing into another such plant.

     

    "cut open the peppers and remove the seeds"

     

     

     

     

     

    :

     

    pip, stone, pit, nut, kernel, germ

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

  2.  

     

     

    2.

     

     

     

    a man's semen.

     

     

     

     

     

    synonyms:



     

    semen, sperm, spermatic fluid, seminal fluid, milt, ejaculate, emission;



     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

Might I say that "2" above could have an echo.




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  Reply # 1083909 8-Jul-2014 09:30
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nolanz: I am no expert, but aren't all the sources referred to in the initial post seeds of some sort or another?


Yes. I quoted text that explicitly said that in the first post.




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