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Batman
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  #1108556 14-Aug-2014 17:26
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I don't think it matters what they're fed as long as it is good stuff and not hormones, antibiotics, junk.

Farm milk tastes different because of higher fat content as they are whole milk, add opposed to homogenized milk.

Homogenization you separate the milk into different components and then mix it back in a controlled fashion e.g. trim milk you out les fat, blue milk you put more fat. The cream is not put back in.




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


Dairyxox
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  #1108581 14-Aug-2014 18:11
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Demeter:
Dairyxox:
Palm oil is not made from palm kernel. The palm kernel is a waste byproduct, that wasn't just dumped but burnt. Doing something with it is a good thing.


By my reference to palm oil, I mean any palm product (which includes palm kernel oil). And by no stretch of the imagination is it a good thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palm_kernel_oil


Okay Okay, I get you mean 'anything related', but i'm being a bit more specific (and somewhat pedantic). Palm oil is not the same as palm kernel oil. Palm oil is widely used and has a large industry based around it, where palm kernel oil is almost academic, in that it is not widely used, but yes it exists in some quantity somewhere. 

My point stands that palm oil is not made from palm kernel. Palm kernel is the waste byproduct and it is good that we use it for something good, rather then burn it. It is natural and high in protein and nutrients just behind fishmeal for stock feed.

 
 
 
 


t92300
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  #1108617 14-Aug-2014 19:15
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joker97: I don't think it matters what they're fed as long as it is good stuff and not hormones, antibiotics, junk.

Farm milk tastes different because of higher fat content as they are whole milk, add opposed to homogenized milk.

Homogenization you separate the milk into different components and then mix it back in a controlled fashion e.g. trim milk you out les fat, blue milk you put more fat. The cream is not put back in.


No thats seperation and standardistaion.
Homogenizaiton is forcing milk through a small jet so that the fat is broken down so that the milk is all uniform by having the fat evenly suspended in the milk.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homogenization_(chemistry)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separator_(milk)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milk_permeate


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  #1108625 14-Aug-2014 19:45
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lol and i trusted a dairy farmer for the explanation! oops




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maslink
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  #1108630 14-Aug-2014 20:02
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Technofreak:
To maximise the returns the milk companies of which Fonterra is one, separate off various ingredients (mainly protein) from the full cream milk that comes off the farm, to be used in other products.  Basically they pull the milk apart and then put it back together minus some ingredients. By regulation milk has to have minimum levels of certain ingredients, after the separation process these are added back in to meet these requirements. This is the milk you buy at the supermarket. Then you have all of the designer Light Blue, Green, and Yellow top variants.


There is no Protein 'extracted' from drinking milk in NZ - either by Anchor(Fonterra) OR Meadowfresh. The only 'pulling apart' that is generally done is separating the cream from the whole milk, which is then added back in various amounts to get the required fat level for green, light blue or dark blue top milk.

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  #1108633 14-Aug-2014 20:07
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I'm sorry, but the idea that cows are supposed to eat only grass is just wrong!

Cows are herbivores, and by definition are supposed to eat plants, any plant material is fine if they like it.

Cows will eat just about anything plant based, and will actively seek out things they like. They also like variety just like we do.




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  #1108634 14-Aug-2014 20:15
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maslink:
Technofreak:
To maximise the returns the milk companies of which Fonterra is one, separate off various ingredients (mainly protein) from the full cream milk that comes off the farm, to be used in other products.  Basically they pull the milk apart and then put it back together minus some ingredients. By regulation milk has to have minimum levels of certain ingredients, after the separation process these are added back in to meet these requirements. This is the milk you buy at the supermarket. Then you have all of the designer Light Blue, Green, and Yellow top variants.


There is no Protein 'extracted' from drinking milk in NZ - either by Anchor(Fonterra) OR Meadowfresh. The only 'pulling apart' that is generally done is separating the cream from the whole milk, which is then added back in various amounts to get the required fat level for green, light blue or dark blue top milk.


Sorry, Yes you are correct, I should have said Cream instead of Protein. Twas a middle of the night post.

My point was stuff is removed for use in other products and therefore not all of the original nutrients are present in the milk sold at your supermarket/corner dairy.




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maslink
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  #1108636 14-Aug-2014 20:18
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Dingbatt: As far as I know the ingredients of butter are buttermilk (whole milk minus the whey) and salt. The beta carotene in grass fed milk produces a deeper yellow color but milk fat is naturally yellow anyhow.


Sorry, no.

Ingredients of butter are cream and salt. ( and occasionally a little water). Buttermilk is the byproduct, and is nothing to do with whey removal from whole milk - whey comes from the cheese making process

Beta Carotene is the colour component that makes butter yellow, and the major source of this is in the green grass. Grain fed cows have very pale fat . NZ butter is naturally yellow because of the predominantly grass fed diet, but milk fat without beta carotene is clear when liquid, and white when solid..(look at Lurpak butter for an example of a low colour butter - although it still has some beta carotene)

JWR

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  #1108641 14-Aug-2014 20:31

joker97: I don't think it matters what they're fed as long as it is good stuff and not hormones, antibiotics, junk.

...


I think you can be very confident that New Zealand milk does not contain anything like that.

All milk is tested. There are pretty severe penalties for the farmer, if anything is found in the milk picked up by the tanker.

However, antibiotics are extensively used to treat diseases (like mastitis). The milk from those cows is often used to feed calves.

This isn't very good for the calves immune systems. But, worse, it tends to breed bacteria immunity to antibiotics.

maslink
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  #1108661 14-Aug-2014 20:40
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AKILL: I've been operating under the assumption that all dairy in NZ is grass fed but I'm not 100% sure because NOTHING IS LABELLED WHETHER ITS GRASS FED OR NOT.

The butter seems to be, as it has a deep-yellow colour as opposed to the pale-yellow colour that grain-fed butter has.

However I'm having some doubts about the milk. I've read some stories that Fonterra has been sneakily grain feeding their cows with palm kernel extract. Plus ordinary milk such as anchor milk tastes like crap compared to milk you buy off farmers. It tastes dead and lifeless, with no vibrancy and barely any flavour. That could just an effect of the pasteurization and homogenization processes though.

Keen to hear your thoughts on this.



It will always be very unlikely that NZ milk you buy in a supermarket or dairy will be 100% grass fed...as many other posters have mentioned there are a range of supplements that farmers use to feed their cows, and collected milk is not segregated on this basis - and milk from multiple farms will also be mixed together in the factory. 

Having said that, there are times of the year (from around the end of Aug until maybe November) when the percentage of non-grass fed milk will be very low due high spring grass growth rates reducing the need for supplemental feeds.

Pasteurisation and homogenisation will have some effect on the milk flavour and mouth feel - homogenisation by changing the distribution of the fat in the milk (breaking up of larger fat globules), and pasteurisation will induce some minor changes in the milk chemistry as the milk is heated. These techniques do however have some significant advantages, especially pasteurisation which kills many potential pathogens. Take a look at http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/9879286/Raw-milk-triggers-campylobacter-outbreak for an example of one of the risks associated with drinking raw milk.

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  #1108704 14-Aug-2014 21:38
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Wishing I paid more attention to a presentation I was at earlier this evening.

There were some numbers bandied about in the 500kg - 1000kg of PKE per year range. 

I believe that was the total amount of supplemental feed, on average, per cow, fed in New Zealand across the year.  In may have been 500kg - 1000kg per hectare per year (which would be normally somewhere about 4 cows per hectare).

New Zealand (if I recall correctly) also imports something like half of the world's production of PKE.

Something to think about.

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  #1108725 14-Aug-2014 23:18
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My meat comes from the big mac tree, and my chicken is of the butter kind.
Thats the way i likes it.

This thread reminds me of The Sausage Theory which states
"If you like something, dont find out how its made"




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  #1108786 15-Aug-2014 08:14
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andrewNZ: I'm sorry, but the idea that cows are supposed to eat only grass is just wrong!

Cows are herbivores, and by definition are supposed to eat plants, any plant material is fine if they like it.

Cows will eat just about anything plant based, and will actively seek out things they like. They also like variety just like we do.


True that!

I've actually seen a herd of about 30 cows go nuts over the pine needles from a fallen border/windbreak pine tree... they really seemed to like the stuff, though I wonder now what that would have done to the milk taste THEY gave the next day :)

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  #1108794 15-Aug-2014 08:29
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They do except when being feed supplemental feed such as Chowmolia, Hay etc. They also eat thistle clover and other vegetation

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  #1108820 15-Aug-2014 09:09
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PhantomNVD:
andrewNZ: I'm sorry, but the idea that cows are supposed to eat only grass is just wrong!

Cows are herbivores, and by definition are supposed to eat plants, any plant material is fine if they like it.

Cows will eat just about anything plant based, and will actively seek out things they like. They also like variety just like we do.


True that!

I've actually seen a herd of about 30 cows go nuts over the pine needles from a fallen border/windbreak pine tree... they really seemed to like the stuff, though I wonder now what that would have done to the milk taste THEY gave the next day :)


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