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  # 1691083 16-Dec-2016 13:48
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The government is targeting 2025 for NZ to be smoke free, I really hope they achieve that




Mike
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  # 1691092 16-Dec-2016 14:07
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More nannies telling people what is good for them.

 

 

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


 
 
 
 


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  # 1691094 16-Dec-2016 14:17
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Rikkitic:

More nannies telling people what is good for them.


 


 



OR people saying they are sick of picking up the cost




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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


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  # 1691096 16-Dec-2016 14:19
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Rikkitic:

 

 

 

I am sorry about your father. Smoking has killed a lot of people. Many were victims of the time they grew up in, before the hazards of smoking were well-known and widely publicised. I would not encourage anyone to start smoking. I just think there ought to be a little more understanding for those who do. They are addicts, not criminals. First smoking is banned in one place, then another. Smokers are forced to congregate in the streets. Then they are pushed further down the street. Then outdoor smoking is banned. If the intention is to keep smokers away from non-smokers, then give smokers a place where they can go. Smoking will eventually die out. Those who oppose it just need to have a little more patience. 

 

 

Thanks. All true. In the 1940s and 50s most people had no real idea how bad cigarettes were for health...though some definitely were on to it. My Dad and I used to argue about it.  He said if he wanted to smoke, he would and if he got cancer, well, he'd enjoyed it and that was that. 

 

Except it wasn't. Once he knew he had cancer he was far from relaxed about it and he quit smoking that day and never smoked again. Horse, barn...etc. Then he spent 8 years having chunks cut out of him (half his bowel, later half his liver) and from time to time between chemo sessions where things would happen like the skin on the bottom of his feet fell off......and in the end he had a bag plugged into his side to collect the bile from his pancreas because the tumours were blocking passage of it to his stomach and jaundice would kill him faster if left. But then he went through the "dry out and die" multi-day process smashed off his face on Oxycodone because euthanasia wasn't yet legal in Canada. It is now.  Tool ate for him, though. He went the slow, gaspy, bloody-hard-work way. 

 

I don't think smoking will die out completely. There are more than enough not-very-bright people around to keep the poison-vendors in profits. ("Trump" - I say that to encompass the idea of someone without a clue doing a dumb thing they thought was a good idea at the time.)

But after all that, I have trouble taking anyone seriously if they light up a cigarette. "Really? In 2016? WTF is wrong with you?" 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 





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  # 1691097 16-Dec-2016 14:25
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MikeAqua:

Athlonite:


If I'm standing outside (on the street or wherever) minding my own having a smoke and you rock up and nut off about it you'll probably end up with the red end in your eye for being a p***k


 


a) I don't hide the fact I'm having a smoke so no one forced you to come stand next to me 


b) I don't suffer idiots nicely (there should be a DNA test for idiocy at birth and those that fail should be burnt or made to undergo a frontal lobotomy) 



So what you are really saying is you want to use public space in a way that excludes others who wish to avoid exposure to the carcinogenic toxins you are emitting and if anyone has the temerity to object, you will assault them?


And you think people who don't smoke are the idiots in this discussion?


text book


Sigh, I'll bite. You want to exclude people who want to emit carcinogenic toxins, difference? Frankly there's plenty of space to do both, unless you walk into the smoke to tell them off for smoking...

And hey, how do you feel about motor vehicles? Wood burners? Etc?

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  # 1691108 16-Dec-2016 14:56
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MikeAqua:

 

 

 

So what you are really saying is you want to use public space in a way that excludes others who wish to avoid exposure to the carcinogenic toxins you are emitting and if anyone has the temerity to object, you will assault them?

 

And you think people who don't smoke are the idiots in this discussion?

 

text book

 

 

 

 

If I'm out in the open and you can see I'm having a smoke and they don't like it then don't come near me easy as that nobody forced them to come over just to have a go at me about it only their stupidity that did that would they walk into the middle of the road to have a go at car drivers for the very same thing I doubt it because they would think they'd get run over so what makes them think they shouldn't suffer the same by having a go at me they started the assault by verbally abusing me

 

 

 

oh and by the way when I'm out and having a smoke I don't throw my butts on the ground I use an empty eclipse mint tin to hold them until I get home and then they go in the rubbish 




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  # 1691109 16-Dec-2016 14:59
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Linuxluver:

 

 

 

Thanks. All true. In the 1940s and 50s most people had no real idea how bad cigarettes were for health...though some definitely were on to it. My Dad and I used to argue about it.  He said if he wanted to smoke, he would and if he got cancer, well, he'd enjoyed it and that was that. 

 

Except it wasn't. Once he knew he had cancer he was far from relaxed about it and he quit smoking that day and never smoked again. Horse, barn...etc. Then he spent 8 years having chunks cut out of him (half his bowel, later half his liver) and from time to time between chemo sessions where things would happen like the skin on the bottom of his feet fell off......and in the end he had a bag plugged into his side to collect the bile from his pancreas because the tumours were blocking passage of it to his stomach and jaundice would kill him faster if left. But then he went through the "dry out and die" multi-day process smashed off his face on Oxycodone because euthanasia wasn't yet legal in Canada. It is now.  Tool ate for him, though. He went the slow, gaspy, bloody-hard-work way. 

 

I don't think smoking will die out completely. There are more than enough not-very-bright people around to keep the poison-vendors in profits. ("Trump" - I say that to encompass the idea of someone without a clue doing a dumb thing they thought was a good idea at the time.)

But after all that, I have trouble taking anyone seriously if they light up a cigarette. "Really? In 2016? WTF is wrong with you?" 

 

 

I can't argue with an experience like that. I wouldn't even try. I agree that with what is known now, a decision to smoke seems incomprehensible. Yet people still do it. My best friend does it, and she is no dummy. I have discussed it with her, briefly, and she made  it clear that she did not want to be lectured about it. She is a professional and knows the risks. It is her decision and because of our friendship I respect that.

 

I think as much information and encouragement as possible must be provided, but beyond that it should remain the choice of the individual. I don't like coercion, and I don't like treating smokers as second-class citizens. I never tried vaping because that came along long after I quit smoking, but it seems like a better alternative, maybe also for non-smokers in the vicinity. I don't know if second-hand vape is the same as second-hand smoke, or if it spreads as far, or dissipates sooner. I think the main problem with smoke is all the nasty chemicals that go along with it. That doesn't seem to be an issue with vaping.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


 
 
 
 


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  # 1691124 16-Dec-2016 15:15
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Rikkitic:

 

Linuxluver:

 

 

 

Thanks. All true. In the 1940s and 50s most people had no real idea how bad cigarettes were for health...though some definitely were on to it. My Dad and I used to argue about it.  He said if he wanted to smoke, he would and if he got cancer, well, he'd enjoyed it and that was that. 

 

Except it wasn't. Once he knew he had cancer he was far from relaxed about it and he quit smoking that day and never smoked again. Horse, barn...etc. Then he spent 8 years having chunks cut out of him (half his bowel, later half his liver) and from time to time between chemo sessions where things would happen like the skin on the bottom of his feet fell off......and in the end he had a bag plugged into his side to collect the bile from his pancreas because the tumours were blocking passage of it to his stomach and jaundice would kill him faster if left. But then he went through the "dry out and die" multi-day process smashed off his face on Oxycodone because euthanasia wasn't yet legal in Canada. It is now.  Tool ate for him, though. He went the slow, gaspy, bloody-hard-work way. 

 

I don't think smoking will die out completely. There are more than enough not-very-bright people around to keep the poison-vendors in profits. ("Trump" - I say that to encompass the idea of someone without a clue doing a dumb thing they thought was a good idea at the time.)

But after all that, I have trouble taking anyone seriously if they light up a cigarette. "Really? In 2016? WTF is wrong with you?" 

 

 

I can't argue with an experience like that. I wouldn't even try. I agree that with what is known now, a decision to smoke seems incomprehensible. Yet people still do it. My best friend does it, and she is no dummy. I have discussed it with her, briefly, and she made  it clear that she did not want to be lectured about it. She is a professional and knows the risks. It is her decision and because of our friendship I respect that.

 

 

 

Yeah....tantrums. Been there. It's part of the personality profile of people who smoke. Denial. Denial.....and if you challenge the denial => aggression. 

 

 

I think as much information and encouragement as possible must be provided, but beyond that it should remain the choice of the individual. I don't like coercion, and I don't like treating smokers as second-class citizens. I never tried vaping because that came along long after I quit smoking, but it seems like a better alternative, maybe also for non-smokers in the vicinity. I don't know if second-hand vape is the same as second-hand smoke, or if it spreads as far, or dissipates sooner. I think the main problem with smoke is all the nasty chemicals that go along with it. That doesn't seem to be an issue with vaping.

 

 

 

It's an addiction and even if it wasn't, it literally stinks. 

As for "second class citizen"....It's hard to avoid the way people feel about a thing you're doing if you do that thing. Describing that as being a second class citizen is just part of the denial and refusing to accept the consequences of an action.....in this case, showing incredibly bad judgement and no small amount of lack of consideration for anyone around who has to breathe that rubbish in. There's a special kind of selfishness there that all addicts share....and choose to deny....and get aggressive if challenged.

I once had a fellow beg a ride to a city an hour away. He was a 3-pack-a-day man.  I said I didn't see any way he would be able to go an hour without a fag and suggested he take the bus provided for everyone else to get to the function. He begged. I said OK, but not a word about smoking during the ride and no smoking. "Sure", he says.

We weren't 20 mins down the road and he started winding his window down. He was just going to light up a fag and I said "what are you doing?" he says it will be OK...the window's open.

I said no. He said why not...and so on...and got rapidly more agitated. He pulled out the fag and started to light it up. I pulled the car over and told him to get out. He called me a ph**king c*** and every other word in the list. We were still half an hour away from the destination.

The other two people in the car told him to pull his head in or get out of the car.

He was really rude, almost in tears.....but he didn't smoke and we got there.

After that.......I could see clearly that smoking is a fangs-beared, utterly evil addiction. I didn't blame him, but no freaking way was he ever getting in my car again. We barely spoke after that for the rest of the year in the program. 

Second class citizen? His choice.....at some early point. now it's just a consequence of his addiction he'll have to live with it. Though this was almost 40 years ago and he's probably dead now.   





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  # 1691130 16-Dec-2016 15:27
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Someone like that is just a jerk. I never would have behaved that way when I smoked and I know my friend also would not. Going without makes you uncomfortable but anyone can survive it for a few hours if they have to. There is no excuse for that kind of behaviour.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  # 1691136 16-Dec-2016 15:41
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I suffer hell on a daily basis, I simply cannot understand folks that would invite it and smoking is sure as hell inviting it.





Mike
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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

There is no planet B

 

 


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  # 1691139 16-Dec-2016 15:43
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Thing is, though. Until there was bans on smoking - smokers didn't care how their smoking affected others. I know, I have asthma and have had to be around that sh!t for the better part of my life.

 

Sorry, but smoking is not a right. And smoking made it hard for me to be able to enjoy being out on the town or around people.

 

I am REALLY happy that things have changes over the years, and that smoking has become less of thing in public spaces. It has increased my quality of life more than you could imagine.







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  # 1691142 16-Dec-2016 15:50
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Fair enough. I would not presume to argue with either of the above. For me the issue is not about smoking per se, but about civilised behaviour. No decent person should do anything that makes someone else suffer. If smoking causes that much distress to bystanders, smokers have an obligation to be sensitive to that and to behave accordingly. If they do not, there is something wrong with them as people.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  # 1693265 21-Dec-2016 14:00
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Well, husband smokes. Has done since age 11. He is now 69.

 

Has it killed him? No.

 

Has it affected him. The docs would say yes, I would say no.

 

He has artery disease. Then again, it runs in his family. Including those who don't and didn't smoke. He has had no treatment for the arteries, it doesn't bother him really. He can't walk too far now, but then that's the arthritis in his spine and knee that causes that issue.

 

 

 

As a poison it's pretty useless. It takes forever to do any harm, and in some people never does.

 

Is there any point in giving up now? He tried. Failed.

 

More than once.

 

So why punish people by increasing the price? IT hasn't worked and it's led to more crime.

 

Pretty much like all the other drugs really, look what happened with Prohibition.....

 

 

 

And the nastier stuff, meth, heroin etc.

 

Doesn't stop them and look at the price of that!

 

 

 

OK, it's been banned in workplaces and public buildings, that should keep the non-smokers happy.

 

I believe in smoking outside the house too, it is a messy substance. But this continual blabbing on about it? Look what alcohol does. The violence, the accidents and the disasters every weekend and Friday nights with hospitals, ambulances and cops being tied up with obnoxious drunks.

 

 

 

But is that being picked on? Hell no.

 

 


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  # 1693266 21-Dec-2016 14:07
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I've always had a chip on my shoulder about smoking. I think that came from watching one of my grandfathers spending the last three months of his life dying of the effects of about sixty years of smoking.

 

His wife died in her early 70's from smoking related causes also (I didn't see her in her final years).

 

Now his youngest son (my uncle) has emphysema and will soon be on oxygen for it. Also caused by a life time of smoking. Uncle is about 72 I think.

 

Rant over.


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