Obesity and cigarettes

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Fred99

13684 posts

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#1813979 6-Jul-2017 15:57

marej:

Junk food is a side issue.........this is a consequence of the low fat era, and without really thinking everyone went about eating an unnatural food supply. Now the professionals are sticking to that theory and blaming sugar....

They go about heavily marketing margarines and vegetable oils and condemn smoking and soft drinks. Public health messaging is a load of nonsense.

The evidence about the harm of smoking and excessive sugar consumption is extremely compelling.

The evidence about relative health benefits and harms of various vegetable oils exists mainly on facebook.

Public health messaging might not always get it right, but...

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marej

186 posts

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#1813983 6-Jul-2017 16:02

Fred99:

marej:

Junk food is a side issue.........this is a consequence of the low fat era, and without really thinking everyone went about eating an unnatural food supply. Now the professionals are sticking to that theory and blaming sugar....

They go about heavily marketing margarines and vegetable oils and condemn smoking and soft drinks. Public health messaging is a load of nonsense.

The evidence about the harm of smoking and excessive sugar consumption is extremely compelling.

The evidence about relative health benefits and harms of various vegetable oils exists mainly on facebook.

Public health messaging might not always get it right, but...

Where do vegetable oils exist.........only in processed foods.

You are right that this theory only exists on facebook... because no one bites the hand that feeds them........Sugar prob plays a large role, but it can't be the sole cause.....its been around longer than the obesity crisis.

Rikkitic

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#1813993 6-Jul-2017 16:13

It's not the sugar we eat, it's the way we eat it. Sugar is everywhere. No food that is processed in any way is without (lots of) added sugar. Then there is the sugar people add, on their cereal, in their tea, probably by snorting and injection. The amount of sugar people consume is phenomenal. I still keep being surprised by the foods I find it in. Compared to that, I think any questions about vegetable oils pale into insignificance. It is like searching for a child labour conspiracy on Mars.

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Fred99

13684 posts

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#1813996 6-Jul-2017 16:15

marej:

Fred99:

marej:

Junk food is a side issue.........this is a consequence of the low fat era, and without really thinking everyone went about eating an unnatural food supply. Now the professionals are sticking to that theory and blaming sugar....

They go about heavily marketing margarines and vegetable oils and condemn smoking and soft drinks. Public health messaging is a load of nonsense.

The evidence about the harm of smoking and excessive sugar consumption is extremely compelling.

The evidence about relative health benefits and harms of various vegetable oils exists mainly on facebook.

Public health messaging might not always get it right, but...

Where do vegetable oils exist.........only in processed foods.

You are right that this theory only exists on facebook... because no one bites the hand that feeds them........Sugar prob plays a large role, but it can't be the sole cause.....its been around longer than the obesity crisis.

Vegetable oils exist in vegetables, grains, nuts, fruits.

Sugar has been around for - well since forever as far as human diet goes, but not in anything even remotely close to the amount consumed by the average person these days. It (sources of sugar, honey etc) used to be expensive. Now it's extremely cheap - and added to so many things where it's not needed.

I was being a bit cynical to say that evidence re veg oils is confined to facebook, there is some pretty good evidence on several matters - cooking at high temp with polyunsaturated oils may be a very bad idea, re-using or cooking some foods for extended periods/high temps in any oil may be a bad idea, trans fats are clearly not good. But facebook tells me that if I give up on all of these and eat bucket loads of coconut oil, I'll live forever and never have a health problem, which is not only wrong, but potentially very harmful advice.

tdgeek

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#1814000 6-Jul-2017 16:25

MikeB4:

@ Rikkitic You used a key word in your post that is "choice" yes there are bad food options however to use those bad options is a matter of choice. One does not have to go into KFC or McDonalds. As for fresh food choices, they are becoming harder to find in the larger cities, the vegetables and meat in the large super markets are far from fresh, for example buy Silver Beat in the morning by dinner time it looks like a limp chunk of wet sea weed. Most of the fruit and vege has been in coolers for a very long time and most of the super market meat and fish is just plain horrible.

Yes, in supermarkets its not ideal, but thats more the issue with distribution. There are many smaller vegetables type places like Raewoods here in ChCh, asian fruit and vegetable places. Our garden at times. But shopping wise there is also, sushi places everywhere, Subway. I think there is quite a good choice of fast healthy food.

But, whatever is out there, choice isn't the issue, its that many choose badly.

MikeB4

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#1814003 6-Jul-2017 16:33

This purely my opinion. The problem with obesity and getting rid of it is that folks use diets, and generally diets made up by some Hollywood celeb or magazine/Facebook/news site. Diets are not the answer to obesity, true they will drop ones weight but they are unsustainable. Life style changes are the sustainable way to control weight. I take certain medications that can cause weight gain or affect fat distribution, I maintain a BMI (it's a guideline not gospel) of circa 20. I do this by controlling what I eat daily, weekly, monthly, yearly. The drugs don't put the weight on that is done by what passes my teeth so control that and I control my weight. I would have no show of managing my condition if I did not manage my weight.

I would like to see the fad diets consigned to history and proper education done starting at schools.

marej

186 posts

Master Geek

#1814026 6-Jul-2017 17:30

MikeB4:

This purely my opinion. The problem with obesity and getting rid of it is that folks use diets, and generally diets made up by some Hollywood celeb or magazine/Facebook/news site. Diets are not the answer to obesity, true they will drop ones weight but they are unsustainable. Life style changes are the sustainable way to control weight. I take certain medications that can cause weight gain or affect fat distribution, I maintain a BMI (it's a guideline not gospel) of circa 20. I do this by controlling what I eat daily, weekly, monthly, yearly. The drugs don't put the weight on that is done by what passes my teeth so control that and I control my weight. I would have no show of managing my condition if I did not manage my weight.

I would like to see the fad diets consigned to history and proper education done starting at schools.

I do in large agree with you. I also take a medication that is clear the side effect is weight gain, but I do wonder now whether that is based on eating lots of grains based on eating guidelines.

There is an issue with all the 'fad' diets out there, BUT, why do people go on them or seek something else...even for people who are not considered obese or even overweight, they have excess abdominal fat and actually it does not feel natural, normal or healthy despite what people tell us, instead we get ads for spanx and special jeans that take tuck in the fat and make you look super.

We did better as a society when we decided what to eat for ourselves. If we go to low fat and low sugar and believe meat causes cancer, whats left...cheap grains, ie processed food. Fruit and veg.....they are not filling

GregF

52 posts

Master Geek

#1814041 6-Jul-2017 18:08

I have personal experience of both obesity and cigarettes. In my opinion there is only one cause to obesity.

In my 20's I ate/drank/smoked - until turning 30 I looked down and went 'I'm a fat b&stard' - 117kg of pizza, coke and bourbon.

I didn't want to be like that - so flicked the smokes first, and slowly began exercising.

Now I hover around 85kg in my 40's. I put on weight if I eat or drink too much, and have learnt to cut back when the jeans get tight.

I've discovered that there is no wonder pill, no magic diet, no bad advertising, no abundance of fast food, no lack of education.

Eat less and exercise more. Anything else is an excuse to be lazy.

For anyone who tells you they have a medical condition, or any excuse as to why they are obese - I call BS - I can find you someone with the same condition, who runs marathons, or swims rivers, or just even gets out and walks - who isn't obese.

The only difference is the personal choice the individual makes - to be fat or not. I don't see fat people - I see lazy people.

So in my opinion - laziness causes obesity.

MikeAqua

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#1814542 7-Jul-2017 16:32

marej:

Where do vegetable oils exist.........only in processed foods.

And in glass bottles in most kitchens - e.g. olive oil. Vegetable oils are used in the cuisines of the healthier populations in the world. Mediterranean and Japanese food for example predominantly use vegetable oils.

Vegetable shortenings and other trans-saturated vegetable fats are probably the ones to watch out for.

Mike

marej

186 posts

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#1814558 7-Jul-2017 16:42

MikeAqua:

Vegetable shortenings and other trans-saturated vegetable fats are probably the ones to watch out for.

and the ones to watch out for are mostly in processed food....the 'vegetable fats' in your biscuits and crackers are generally not olive or avocado.

Fred99

13684 posts

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#1815672 7-Jul-2017 20:32

marej:

MikeAqua:

Vegetable shortenings and other trans-saturated vegetable fats are probably the ones to watch out for.

and the ones to watch out for are mostly in processed food....the 'vegetable fats' in your biscuits and crackers are generally not olive or avocado.

I think you'll find (hopefully) that trans fat content of NZ made food is quite low. However it's not regulated with an upper limit and no import controls saying that food with high trans fat content can't be sold. Labeling requirements are:

Manufacturers are not required to declare TFAs on the label, although they can provide this information voluntarily. However, TFAs must be declared on a label if the manufacturer makes a nutrition content claim about cholesterol or saturated, trans, polyunsaturated, monounsaturated, omega-3, omega-6 or omega-9 fatty acids.

There may be other issues relating to oils/fats in crackers/cookies etc less obvious than from what's disclosed as ingredients on the label. Formation of acrylamide from baking or frying starchy food using / containing oils with a high polyunsaturated content seems to result in higher acrylamide levels. Then it gets really complex - as some vege oils come in both low and high polyunsaturated form. Example, low linoleic acid sunflower oil has only 4% polyunsaturates, but high in monounsaturated content - so if it says on the label "Sunflower Oil" without further definition, you really don't know what you're getting Then - even if you do, it's a big bag of unanswered questions as to whether it's going to have a negative health impact or not anyway.

blakamin

4431 posts

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#1815676 7-Jul-2017 20:47

MikeB4: Most of the fruit and vege has been in coolers for a very long time {snip}

As someone who used to pick up from the markets and deliver fruit and vege (and before that, meat and seafood) for the Welly region, I suggest you are completely wrong and should do a trip to Grenada at 2 am to see the stuff coming in from the market gardens, and being bid on at 5 am by the produce buyers from all the supermarkets.

Same for seafood. Head to Lyall Bay, or Moana Pacific in Lorne st CBD, or the other one on Cuba St (can't remember its name).

Batman

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#1815755 8-Jul-2017 06:48

blakamin:

MikeB4: Most of the fruit and vege has been in coolers for a very long time {snip}

As someone who used to pick up from the markets and deliver fruit and vege (and before that, meat and seafood) for the Welly region, I suggest you are completely wrong and should do a trip to Grenada at 2 am to see the stuff coming in from the market gardens, and being bid on at 5 am by the produce buyers from all the supermarkets.

Same for seafood. Head to Lyall Bay, or Moana Pacific in Lorne st CBD, or the other one on Cuba St (can't remember its name).

THey sell by bidding? Wow.

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