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133 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 1882571 12-Oct-2017 17:51
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All this talk about foods being fattening or not is besides the point. What it really comes down to is how much we eat. If you eat less kCal than you burn in a day, you lose weight. Eat as much as you burn and you stay the same. Eat more than you burn and you put weight on. You could (it would be very unhealthy) get away with eating McDonald's daily, as long as you ate less kCal than you burnt. Eating healthier food allows you to consume a higher volume of food before you reach the limit, same as exercise increases the limit. There are many apps to work out roughly how much you should be eating and that do all the tracking for you - MyFitnessPal being a great example.

 

I completely agree that healthy options should be cheaper, and that many people can only afford junk food, but there is nothing actually stopping them from only eating what they need, instead of what would be nice. It all comes down to self control.

 

 

 

Obviously there are exceptions to the rule, and this should not be considered advice for anyone - if you're concerned about your weight you really should consult with someone that has a degree.


669 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 402


  Reply # 1882594 12-Oct-2017 19:22
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Paparangi:

 

All this talk about foods being fattening or not is besides the point. What it really comes down to is how much we eat. If you eat less kCal than you burn in a day, you lose weight.

 

 

But if you're simply counting calories, you're do it wrong.

 

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/6-reasons-why-a-calorie-is-not-a-calorie#section1

 

Cereals and other carbs are what has made us fat, not eating fat. Eating fat does not even make you fat.

 

Paparangi:if you're concerned about your weight you really should consult with someone that has a degree.

 

Why a degree? Some of the dumbest people I've ever met have degrees. What's more advice from so-called experts is being steadily eroded. Just look at what they were saying about eggs a decade ago compared to now. The same is now happening for saturated fat.





"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
- John Stuart Mill


 
 
 
 


133 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 25


  Reply # 1882599 12-Oct-2017 19:36
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Why a degree? Some of the dumbest people I've ever met have degrees. What's more advice from so-called experts is being steadily eroded. Just look at what they were saying about eggs a decade ago compared to now. The same is now happening for saturated fat.

 

 

 

 

I think a dietitian will have more of an idea about diets, health, and losing weight compared to stay-at-home mum Susan down the street. Science does evolve, it doesn't mean that current science is bad to follow... by that logic   'so-called experts' such as Doctors also should be taken with a grain of salt. The article you linked to is written by a dietitian - how do you know that they aren't a 'so-called expert' whose advice will be steadily eroded in 20 years time?


669 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1882601 12-Oct-2017 19:54
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I take all advice with a grain of salt. Mmmm delicious, tasty salt.

 

I have a qualified nutritionist relative that I regularly get into arguments with over questions of diet.

 

In many cases it's not been evolution of science but simple striking down of misconceptions that became mainstream accepted facts. I'm just glad I took absolutely no notice of the demonising of eggs and continued my regular intake of that superfood.





"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
- John Stuart Mill


133 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 25


  Reply # 1882603 12-Oct-2017 19:56
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cadman:

 

I take all advice with a grain of salt.

 

I have a qualified nutritionist relative that I regularly get into arguments with over questions of diet.

 

 

These two lines explain all.

 

 


669 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 402


  Reply # 1882617 12-Oct-2017 20:33
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Paparangi:

 

cadman:

 

I take all advice with a grain of salt.

 

I have a qualified nutritionist relative that I regularly get into arguments with over questions of diet.

 

 

These two lines explain all.

 

 

Did you just make the serious mistake of inferring I don't listen to anyone?

 

 

 

I simply require empirical evidence to back up a position. Sound science is never a question of popularity. There is little good science to be found in the nutrition advice available today.





"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
- John Stuart Mill


669 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 402


  Reply # 1882618 12-Oct-2017 20:34
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Paparangi:

 

cadman:

 

I take all advice with a grain of salt.

 

I have a qualified nutritionist relative that I regularly get into arguments with over questions of diet.

 

 

These two lines explain all.

 

 

Did you just make the serious mistake of inferring I don't listen to anyone?

 

 

 

I simply require empirical evidence to back up a position. Sound science is never a question of popularity. There is little good science to be found in the nutrition advice available today.





"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
- John Stuart Mill


17264 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 1882663 12-Oct-2017 21:19
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MikeAqua:

 

I have noticed spending a bit of time in outpatients that: -

 

- Doctors appear slimmer than average; and

 

- Patients are often overweight.

 

Lessons ...

 

 

Maybe this is a chicken and egg argument - is it possible that because of overweight causing so many health problems, there are so many patients making the doctors overworked and undereating?


4087 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 1882667 12-Oct-2017 21:33
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kobiak: Potatoes are not fattening, the way it's cooked makes it fat rich dish

My point was there are cheaper and healthy alternatives to 5$ pizzas. But people either not willing to try or cook other foods/ dishes

 

Nope.  Potato is a starchy carb.  Eat it any way you like, you're going to have a hard time metabolising that energy into anything useful. 


IcI

460 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1882697 13-Oct-2017 00:42
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@Dulouz:
@kobiak
reven: 
allan:, but when sugary/fatty foods are often significantly cheaper than healthier alternatives

 

this is so true, a $5 pizza is pretty bloody cheap to feed 2 people. 

 

I will disagree as 1kg of potatoes is $1-2 and can feed 4 people. there're many other cheaper alternatives, so people make choice to eat pizza, pies (which could be made healthier), etc. 

 

Or a 1kg of brown rice for $2.50, add some beans. There are enough nutrients in brown rice /beans to keep you going indefinitely for less than $.50 a serving. 

 

Neither of you two factor in the cost of energy to prepare the potatoes or rice. Also, eating 1kg  of potatoes / rice is very bland compared to pretty much everything else. It simply is not only the cost of the raw ingredients.


1911 posts

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  Reply # 1882700 13-Oct-2017 01:13
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cadman:

 

 

 

But if you're simply counting calories, you're do it wrong.

 

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/6-reasons-why-a-calorie-is-not-a-calorie#section1

 

Cereals and other carbs are what has made us fat, not eating fat. Eating fat does not even make you fat.

 

 

 

 

Quoting from that article:

 

Increased protein can lead to drastically reduced appetite and cause automatic weight loss without the need for calorie counting or portion control.

 

And

 

Low-carb diets consistently lead to more weight loss than low-fat diets, even when calories are matched between groups.

 

Since a low carbohydrate diet would need to have higher fat and protein content. And since protein helps to make you feel "full" You then run into major issues on how to buy protein rich foods on a budget. Potato's are only 2% protein, Brown rice is not much better at 2.6%, Mung beans are 24% protein so an improvement. But unless you add in a reasonable amount of animal products, (meat/dairy/eggs) It is difficult to get plenty of protein without also consuming lots of sugars.

 

And far more difficult again to get a decent amount of protein if you are on a tight budget. As most cooking advice for low budget meals is about tricks for using less meat, and using more of things like potato. And since carb and fat based raw ingredients are generally cheaper. Fast food companies have an incentive to reduce protein content and instead increase carb and fat content. As it makes meals cheaper to produce for a given serving size.








4995 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 1882816 13-Oct-2017 09:32
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As well as appetite suppression from higher fat/protein food, there's also lack of appetite suppression from fructose / table sugar added to or accompanying food.

 

The mechanism behind that may not be fully explained - but the effect is surely there, and it's obvious that the processed food industry has known about it for many decades.

 

Anecdotal I know, but if I'm feeling a bit peckish, a handful of raw or roasted nuts sorts it.  If those nuts happened to be honey-roasted hence loaded with fructose, I'll eat the whole packet then find something for dessert.

 

 

 

 


481 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 148


  Reply # 1882819 13-Oct-2017 09:41
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Aredwood:

 

cadman:

 

 

 

But if you're simply counting calories, you're do it wrong.

 

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/6-reasons-why-a-calorie-is-not-a-calorie#section1

 

Cereals and other carbs are what has made us fat, not eating fat. Eating fat does not even make you fat.

 

 

 

 

Quoting from that article:

 

Increased protein can lead to drastically reduced appetite and cause automatic weight loss without the need for calorie counting or portion control.

 

And

 

Low-carb diets consistently lead to more weight loss than low-fat diets, even when calories are matched between groups.

 

Since a low carbohydrate diet would need to have higher fat and protein content. And since protein helps to make you feel "full" You then run into major issues on how to buy protein rich foods on a budget. Potato's are only 2% protein, Brown rice is not much better at 2.6%, Mung beans are 24% protein so an improvement. But unless you add in a reasonable amount of animal products, (meat/dairy/eggs) It is difficult to get plenty of protein without also consuming lots of sugars.

 

And far more difficult again to get a decent amount of protein if you are on a tight budget. As most cooking advice for low budget meals is about tricks for using less meat, and using more of things like potato. And since carb and fat based raw ingredients are generally cheaper. Fast food companies have an incentive to reduce protein content and instead increase carb and fat content. As it makes meals cheaper to produce for a given serving size.

 

 

Don't forget there is a difference in carbs, complex carbs are better than simple. This is why white bread will more likely make you fat while beans and brown rice are less likely to. 





Amanon

911 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1882829 13-Oct-2017 10:08
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Paparangi:

 

All this talk about foods being fattening or not is besides the point. What it really comes down to is how much we eat. If you eat less kCal than you burn in a day, you lose weight. Eat as much as you burn and you stay the same. Eat more than you burn and you put weight on. You could (it would be very unhealthy) get away with eating McDonald's daily, as long as you ate less kCal than you burnt. Eating healthier food allows you to consume a higher volume of food before you reach the limit, same as exercise increases the limit. There are many apps to work out roughly how much you should be eating and that do all the tracking for you - MyFitnessPal being a great example.

 

I completely agree that healthy options should be cheaper, and that many people can only afford junk food, but there is nothing actually stopping them from only eating what they need, instead of what would be nice. It all comes down to self control.

 

 

 

Obviously there are exceptions to the rule, and this should not be considered advice for anyone - if you're concerned about your weight you really should consult with someone that has a degree.

 

 

I think the exception to the rule is the way the human body can recalibrate its own metabolism. Many people find that they don't lose weight simply by reducing intake as their body reacts by slowing its metabolic rate. It's because the human body wants to store fat (to cover periods without intake such as the cave man who has to get through winter).

 

That's why exercise is especially good. Not only does it burn up stored energy, but it can raise your metabolic rate for a period even once you've finished exercising.

 

 

 

 


481 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 148


  Reply # 1882832 13-Oct-2017 10:14
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kryptonjohn:

 

Paparangi:

 

All this talk about foods being fattening or not is besides the point. What it really comes down to is how much we eat. If you eat less kCal than you burn in a day, you lose weight. Eat as much as you burn and you stay the same. Eat more than you burn and you put weight on. You could (it would be very unhealthy) get away with eating McDonald's daily, as long as you ate less kCal than you burnt. Eating healthier food allows you to consume a higher volume of food before you reach the limit, same as exercise increases the limit. There are many apps to work out roughly how much you should be eating and that do all the tracking for you - MyFitnessPal being a great example.

 

I completely agree that healthy options should be cheaper, and that many people can only afford junk food, but there is nothing actually stopping them from only eating what they need, instead of what would be nice. It all comes down to self control.

 

 

 

Obviously there are exceptions to the rule, and this should not be considered advice for anyone - if you're concerned about your weight you really should consult with someone that has a degree.

 

 

I think the exception to the rule is the way the human body can recalibrate its own metabolism. Many people find that they don't lose weight simply by reducing intake as their body reacts by slowing its metabolic rate. It's because the human body wants to store fat (to cover periods without intake such as the cave man who has to get through winter).

 

That's why exercise is especially good. Not only does it burn up stored energy, but it can raise your metabolic rate for a period even once you've finished exercising.

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you're not losing weight by reducing calories you just haven't reduced your intake enough. And yes - exercise is amazing!





Amanon

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