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  Reply # 2165720 22-Jan-2019 19:11
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tdgeek:

 

India vs NZ, McLean Park, 30C temp.

 

Its the start of our world cup campaign off course!

 

We will struggle probably, subject to the ups and downs of ODI's, but when you play better teams you grow, and we will.

 



LOL, I was like, omg have I missed the referendum. Yes, CANT wait, Colin, Latham and Santner named in the 14. Ill chat to you about my thoughts on the BC thread.

Canada just blanketed the status of Pot as legal didnt they? Im not sure about growing, but as in personal use.




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  Reply # 2165721 22-Jan-2019 19:20
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Fred99:

 

IMO 20 is probably about right, 18 as we have with alcohol probably too low - especially given that there's a couple of years crossover - when the booze limit was 20, as 18yos it was no problem to find a 20 year old mate to buy a crate for us.  Now 16yos front up routinely at EDs with alcohol poisoning.

 



yes this is the reason I asked because I can see there being a difference in age, I wasnt a fan of the 18yo change when I was 25, mainly due to silly carry on and underage as 16 looks a lot closer to 18 than 21 on most people.

I guess the question is, what age does the brain stop developing?

Some of these Amsterdam Cafes are amazing, some look dingy too, but the good ones look like silver service, nice food, great bier and coffee, they just happen to sell monitored strains of pot and hash. I think on the recreational side, I would not like to see every coffee shop see the need to sell pot to survive. Some people dont like the smell etc.

I watched some videos on youtube about 98% pure CBD crystals used in glassware, in a vaper and mixed with indica strains. The difference you can see in the face of one guy vs when he reviews sativa, he looks alert and his eyes look clear and he said his panic disorder is noticeably lower.

Which leads to education, which strains work for what and which are recreational. Which is why I suggested hiring one of the big US Pot Company Execs to help with not just a frame work but guidance on how to apply public education etc.


 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 2165725 22-Jan-2019 19:35
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TeaLeaf:

 

Which is why I suggested hiring one of the big US Pot Company Execs to help with not just a frame work but guidance on how to apply public education etc.

 

 

I'm very uncomfortable with the idea of tax/excise and "commercialisation".  Governments get too fond of the revenue, and regardless of some public statements about social responsibility, the alcohol (and tobacco) industry spent a century lobbying politicians.  Their objective - to sell as much of the stuff as they possibly can.  It's a business - primary objective is to make a profit, and as much profit as you can.  I can't see a huge difference between that (commercialisation which will inevitably end up being controlled by major corporates) and the gangs.  The corporates will be much less prone to kill people, but much better at marketing. 

 

Decriminalisation shouldn't require "commercialisation".  I'm pretty sure you can grow a perfectly satisfactory cannabis plant if you want with about the same ease as growing a tomato, locking it in to a revenue model (for govt and corporates) similar to how we ended up with the present alcohol disaster is plain stupid.

 

 


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  Reply # 2165733 22-Jan-2019 20:03
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I see Paula Bennet is already beginning her campaign to undermine the referendum. Let's just carry on as before since that clearly works so well.

 

 

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  Reply # 2165793 22-Jan-2019 21:04
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TeaLeaf:
I guess the question is, what age does the brain stop developing?

 

The literature suggests that "developmental synaptic pruning" ceases by your mid 20s.

 

As well as the impact from mind-altering drugs in adolescence, probably things like the "Dunedin study" show how the mind can be moulded with long-term / permanent effect, by environmental/social factors from the day we're born.  How significant the impact of cannabis as a teen may be relative to other factors - who knows?  Most of the people I knew who smoked a lot of cannabis in their late teens and 20s are okay - they're doctors, academics, musicians, business people etc - IOW normal and successful people.  Some still have a toke now and then.  Regular heavy users my age (60s) - nope, I don't think it's a good thing - but booze seems worse and claims more victims.

 

I suspect that when we read about some teen doing something very antisocial while high on cannabis (or booze), there's probably always much more to their story than just drug abuse, and that path was probably set when they were infants.

 

 


gzt

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  Reply # 2165811 22-Jan-2019 21:54
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Rikkitic:

I see Paula Bennet is already beginning her campaign to undermine the referendum. Let's just carry on as before since that clearly works so well.


It's clear Bennett is against legalisation, and probably against decriminalisation.

It's not 100% clear to me if Bennett is against medically supervised prescribed cannabis use in the various situations where it is beneficial.



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  Reply # 2165814 22-Jan-2019 22:10
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Fred99:

 

I'm very uncomfortable with the idea of tax/excise and "commercialisation". 

 

 

Are you open to limited personal plants, say 1-2 per person?

 

I hear you, I just feel despite the government in the US being involved, pot still isnt that expensive, vs other medications that have less effect and are far more toxic. Also I just like the idea of knowing what you are consuming. Now if that can be done without the government, even better. Which would mean legalising importation of seeds, like from well known sources like Amsterdam.

Oh man Im going to have to look up this Bennett person. Nixon still has people branwashed into labelling a low grade mind enhancing flower as a gateway to hardcore drugs like Heroin.

No its not, I tell you what is, opiates, big or small, they all are addictive and once your tolerance is at ceiling people will look for the next leap because many cant handle detoxing to reboot tolerance. Its lethal. How it is legal and pot isnt, is criminal. Dont get me wrong, for some people that level of pain killer is required, ie Cancer, Broken bones etc.

Jacinda whats her name is basically like Kiefer Sutherland in that Netflix show, Survivor or last man standing, she is only PM due to this referendum and her politics are as bad as the Nats who I use to vote for until old mate in Hawaii ruined the country. I think Labour better be pretty serious about this or they could lose reelection. IMO Mr Peters has become over time (from when I could not understand him) one of our better senior politicians. He also backed the referendum didnt he?




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  Reply # 2165815 22-Jan-2019 22:19
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Hmmm she has some points, ie drug driving, well clearly its illegal, so should working stoned, but you can tell by the test how long ago the pot was consumed.

Yes she definitely sounds like one of the analysis paralysis sorts, who has OPINIONS.

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/do-like-party-and-found-put-me-sleep-paula-bennett-reveals-cannabis-experience?variant=tb_v_2

 

"As far as marijuana, I was a girl of the 80s and grew up in Taupō and have tried it at a very light level.

 

"It didn't agree with me, to be honest. I do like a party and I found it put me to sleep, so I was much more interested in enjoying myself."

What has being from the 80s and being from Taupo got to do with anything. A bail out on really answering the qiuestion is all, deflection. So she got some bad pot and it disagreed with her. She is out of touch with strain variety now and how pot can be scientifically quantified to push different receptors. Id have thought she would have had more knowledge by now being given this role.

Ive read three articles and thats all I can take from her so far. Perhaps Im way off base and another 10 articles will change my mind. We will see. Im behind her if she is not about dragging the chain but making sure the youth are protected as best as can be (are they really now?) and that it shouldnt be legal for a certain age group.


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  Reply # 2165854 22-Jan-2019 22:46
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Meanwhile the oxycontin scandal continues in USA. New revelations about the extent the owners of the drug went to promote the drug and tried to get doctors to prescribe the same patients more when revenue began to tail off: Item at 17.05


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  Reply # 2165912 23-Jan-2019 07:30
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Fred99:

 

I'm very uncomfortable with the idea of tax/excise and "commercialisation".  Governments get too fond of the revenue, and regardless of some public statements about social responsibility, the alcohol (and tobacco) industry spent a century lobbying politicians.  Their objective - to sell as much of the stuff as they possibly can.  It's a business - primary objective is to make a profit, and as much profit as you can.  I can't see a huge difference between that (commercialisation which will inevitably end up being controlled by major corporates) and the gangs.  The corporates will be much less prone to kill people, but much better at marketing. 

 

Decriminalisation shouldn't require "commercialisation".  I'm pretty sure you can grow a perfectly satisfactory cannabis plant if you want with about the same ease as growing a tomato, locking it in to a revenue model (for govt and corporates) similar to how we ended up with the present alcohol disaster is plain stupid.

 

 

Tax/Excise and 'commercialisation' go hand in hand. It doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing.

There may be some similarities between major corporates and gangs - but corporates at least have a single clear goal – profit – and operate in a market subject to regulation and control.

Just Decriminalisation – if it's tried - will turn out in practise to be de-facto legalisation, but without a proper regulatory structure.

It'll encourage further grey market Cannabis production and consumption with all the inherent quality control and product safety issues of an illegally produced product, without legislative protection for youth and the most at risk members of society.

 

Legalisation – if it's done properly, rather than 'locking [Cannabis] into a revenue model' can take control of what is a potentially damaging product, and encourage use of it - if not for good - at least in as socially responsible a way as possible. In a best case scenario, New Zealand with a climate suited to low carbon (Natural light) production, could field 'clean & green' world quality Cannabis producers.

Your analogy of growing a couple of tomato plants is apt. Growing a couple of Cannabis plants is potentially that easy.

I usually grow a couple of heritage tomato varieties (they're a world apart from store bought ones).
But with tomatoes (and cannabis) a seasonal plant, I join the majority of NZers – who don't have the time in their busy lives, live in an apartment or don't have a green thumb - and much of the year I pick them up, greenhouse grown or imported, at the supermarket.

I also home brew my own beer, but often (especially for a nice whiskey) I'll visit a liquor store. We'll occasionally purchase a bottle - or case - of wine after an afternoon's wine tasting at a local vineyard, and appreciate being able to make that choice.

Where I am at the moment (Canada, where Cannabis is legal) I have the option of growing 4 'personal use' plants, and I'll probably grow a couple alongside my tomatoes this summer. If I'm unable, or don't want to, there's a Cannabis store beside the Supermarket where I can choose from a huge variety of product.. different varieties and flavours, low THC (or no THC) tested and certified free of mould, pesticides and other contaminants.

Legalisation doesn't have to be all about abandoning the market to rapacious commercial interests.
I'd envisage a future where there's room for home grown tomatoes with Dinner, a NZ gewurz with dessert, maybe a single malt and a puff of some NZ specialty bud later in the evening..


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  Reply # 2165924 23-Jan-2019 07:43
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TeaLeaf:

 

"As far as marijuana, I was a girl of the 80s and grew up in Taupō and have tried it at a very light level.

 

"It didn't agree with me, to be honest. I do like a party and I found it put me to sleep, so I was much more interested in enjoying myself."

What has being from the 80s and being from Taupo got to do with anything. 

 

 

Well Taupo in the 80's (or at least the exotic and native forest around the town) was a hotbed of Cannabis production..
I grew up in Taupo myself, went to College with Paula... using at a 'light level' there probably equates with being a total stoner somewhere else.


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  Reply # 2165942 23-Jan-2019 08:35
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Rikkitic:

 

I see Paula Bennet is already beginning her campaign to undermine the referendum. Let's just carry on as before since that clearly works so well.

 

 

Policy for social change is never initiated by National and rarely supported by them. If you look at recent history - homosexual law reform, civil unions, marriage equality, prostitution reform - all passed under Labour governments.  And soon, likely drug law reform under a Labour government.


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  Reply # 2165946 23-Jan-2019 08:47
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TeaLeaf:

 

What has being from the 80s and being from Taupo got to do with anything. A bail out on really answering the qiuestion is all, deflection.

 

 

Taupo in the 80's was well-known as a big growing area, so what's she's saying is that it was probably very easy for her to get her hands on some pot.


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  Reply # 2165950 23-Jan-2019 08:51
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Fred99:

 

I'm very uncomfortable with the idea of tax/excise and "commercialisation".  Governments get too fond of the revenue, and regardless of some public statements about social responsibility, the alcohol (and tobacco) industry spent a century lobbying politicians.  Their objective - to sell as much of the stuff as they possibly can.  It's a business - primary objective is to make a profit, and as much profit as you can.  I can't see a huge difference between that (commercialisation which will inevitably end up being controlled by major corporates) and the gangs.  The corporates will be much less prone to kill people, but much better at marketing. 

 

Decriminalisation shouldn't require "commercialisation".  I'm pretty sure you can grow a perfectly satisfactory cannabis plant if you want with about the same ease as growing a tomato, locking it in to a revenue model (for govt and corporates) similar to how we ended up with the present alcohol disaster is plain stupid.

 

 

I think there's a large group of people that would only accept cannabis reform if it was regulated and taxed. They see that as a benefit (increased income for the government that can be spent on health, etc) and wouldn't be interested in change unless they can see benefits like this.


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  Reply # 2165951 23-Jan-2019 08:54
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gzt: Meanwhile the oxycontin scandal continues in USA. New revelations about the extent the owners of the drug went to promote the drug and tried to get doctors to prescribe the same patients more when revenue began to tail off: Item at 17.05

 

There is no doubt that the US opioid epidemic is a direct consequence of big pharma pushing opioids for profit. The US constitutes around 5% of the world's population, yet consume over 80% of the world's legal opium production.

 

If a fully laden 737 jet fell out of the sky every day killing everyone on board, the US authorities would move heaven and earth to fix it. The equivalent of a fully laden 737 die every single day in the US from overdoses - over 70,000 last year.

 

50 years after the US commenced their war on drugs, they have filled their prisons (over 50% of US inmates are incarcerated for drug offences) yet the overdose death rate is 10 times greater today than it was a decade ago. The US policy on criminalisation for drug use is a great advertisement for considering decriminalisation IMHO.


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