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Mad Scientist
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  # 2168764 28-Jan-2019 10:59
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pctek:

You know it doesn't work for pain?

Friend has done it......she has severe spinal issues and is on morphine.


Replace the morphine - no way. As well as? She said it let her do a bit more, helped the spasms and weird stuff she gets in her hands (unable to open or close them) to a point.


She said it sort of make you not think about it too. But kill pain? No.


There is a bit of a snake oil mentality around about the stuff, people think it's a cure-all. It isn't.



It's not for pain, at least according to Helen Clarke. It's an alternative to alcohol according to Helen (and therefore Labour?)
Maybe I've misinterpreted the video wrong...




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


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  # 2168834 28-Jan-2019 11:42
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Batman:

It's not for pain, at least according to Helen Clarke. It's an alternative to alcohol according to Helen (and therefore Labour?)
Maybe I've misinterpreted the video wrong...

 

You can be cute about it if you want to, but if you actually bothered to view the video, you know what she was saying is that it is time for the country to grow up and quit wasting resources chasing phantoms as there are important issues that need attending to. Nothing promotes drug use like the war on drugs. 

 

 

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


 
 
 
 


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  # 2168838 28-Jan-2019 11:49
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Rikkitic:

Batman:

It's not for pain, at least according to Helen Clarke. It's an alternative to alcohol according to Helen (and therefore Labour?)
Maybe I've misinterpreted the video wrong...


You can be cute about it if you want to, but if you actually bothered to view the video, you know what she was saying is that it is time for the country to grow up and quit wasting resources chasing phantoms as there are important issues that need attending to. Nothing promotes drug use like the war on drugs. 


 


 



of course I watched the video. From what you're saying we should legalise everything that are wasting police resources? Perhaps the cause of speeding is because police are campaigning against speeding? I'd love roads without speed limits if that's the case. I'm clever enough to read the warnings. Anyway, it's gone off topic. Back to the video. I could well have misinterpreted it.




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


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  # 2168841 28-Jan-2019 11:53
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Just more being cute. Nothing that warrants a serious response.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 




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  # 2169847 29-Jan-2019 19:22
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pctek:

 

You know it doesn't work for pain?

Friend has done it......she has severe spinal issues and is on morphine.

 

Replace the morphine - no way. As well as? She said it let her do a bit more, helped the spasms and weird stuff she gets in her hands (unable to open or close them) to a point.

 

She said it sort of make you not think about it too. But kill pain? No.

 

There is a bit of a snake oil mentality around about the stuff, people think it's a cure-all. It isn't.

 



You cant really judge pain until you have spinal pain yourself and one persons opinion doesnt endorse much.

What strain did she smoke?

What was the THC vs CBD%? this is critical.

No there is plenty of anecdotal evidence it kills pain including accute pain, but its strain dependant. Not some generic seads that have been floating around NZ growers for decades. The Cali grow houses study strains, scientifically and for me, Id rather read honest reviews vs paid for medical journals. One could be cynical and say leafly reviews are paid for by strain growers, but I very very much doubt it.

By the way, Amsterdam cafes are now selling many of the Cali Strains.

You know what the offer instead of opiates, pregabalin or a low dose THC anti depressant from the 70s. Please. Now they are snake oil. Although Pregabalin does work on my cluster headaches.

For pain I would recommend a strain like Northern Lights or ACDC, NL is probably one of the most well Known strains in the US and Canada for medicinal use. But ACDC Ive read is the best all round for pain and auto immune disease related symptoms as it is 20:1 CBD to THC.

"Tests have put ACDC’s CBD content as high as 19%, which helps many patients treat pain, anxiety, epilepsy, multiple sclerosis, and the negative effects of chemotherapy, all with a clear head"

For anxiety and pain I would recommend something like Harlequin. https://www.leafly.com/sativa/harlequin

See this plant is 3/4 Sativa dominant, which most people would think yikes high THC = anxiety, but its 5:2 CBD to THC. The CBD is a bit like how the caffeine in tea doesnt make you jittery like Cofffee can, its the Amino acid theanine counters it, thats why Mucha green tea can make people very clear headed. CBD works similarly against THC. But the THC gives enough of a lifting effect to make you feel happy as well as pain free.

See the thing is people are ignorant to canabis, they think a reformed Canabis NZ  with legalisation will mean **** weed that is sprayed with chemicals. No it will mean access to thousands of strains that undeniably work differently for a certain condition.

This is one that I think would work for me, Grand Daddy Purple, has a shed load of reviews. https://www.leafly.com/indica/granddaddy-purple

 


"Granddaddy Purple is typically pulled off the shelf for consumers looking to combat pain, stress, insomnia, appetite loss, and muscle spasms"

Insomnia, pain and muscle spasms. Yes please.




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  # 2169906 29-Jan-2019 20:23
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https://www.leafly.com/news/strains-products/best-cannabis-strains-for-treating-pain

 

This may help some, read the reviews in regards to pain for some of the more potent pain relievers. I dont believe CBD to be the be all and end all, you need some pyscho active change for pain relief, much the same as the body attaches morphine to our OGFR (endorphin receptors). Morphine and endorphin and bio identical, in fact the word Morphine is derived from the word endorphine. The problem is Opioids are immunosuppressors, what this means is catastrophe whether it be developing MS, fybromyalgia,  or Cancer the endorphin system regulates the immune system. Where external Morphine does not. I think a large percentage of the population has inflammatory disease and or auto immune diseases due to lifestyle (largely diet) and just dont realise it. A lot dont cause obvious pain. As for rogue cell splitting, thats one reason I want my natural endorphin system back.

For those that travel in and out of accute or chronic pain to pain just manageable mentally with other medications which also are not healthy but a better choice, Cannabis is an obvious choice over any pharmaceutical.




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  # 2169973 30-Jan-2019 03:33
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Im looking at what NSW is providing and its not cannabis, its largely CBD extracts, the same as NZ is looking at, which is a complete joke. $35pw for an extract that without THC does nothing for psycho active part of cannabis. Its not just about pain, or inflammation etc, its about uplifting state of mind and motivation.

I know it will probably change, as Canberra is looking to completely legalise it with other states with similar views, NSW is just being overly pedantic, analysis by paralysis.

There is also the recreational side which for a grown adult should not be illegal given how many products we consume are definitely worse for us than vaping some cannabis.

I am positive in the NZ referendum recreational will pass like Canberra and Canada and some states in the US with many having medicinal outlets instead.

My back is almost to the point I can walk but I have pain, mostly when I sit for a long time, for most who dont know the pain they would cry, but I am use to it. What would be nice is at the end of the day to vape an indica Kush that is mostly body impacting, relaxation, pain reduction, anti muscle spasms and a little psycho active just to remain cherry, pain grinds you down. CBD medicinal extracts do not provide that effect. So screw medicinal cannabis. If Helen Clarke can endorse it we dont need some door stop like Bennet making statements about her experience with cannabis and trying to down play how much she smoked. We all know that NZ weed is not controlled and we have no idea what strain, thc or cbd levels we are getting. So there is no need to do this "lets study it and see".

 

No if the referendum comes back to legalise cannabis period, what comes next to make that law?


 
 
 
 




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  # 2169974 30-Jan-2019 03:51
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Rikkitic:

 

Sidestep:

 

 

Great post and thanks for all the info, but I don't want produce it commercially or grow gourmet weed. I haven't touched it for years and I don't miss it but if it was legal I might have a couple of wild plants in the garden just for the hell of it. But that's all.

 



The other point he missed is seeds can come either feminised already so males dont grow, or they can come as auto grow, its an easier way for legitimate home grow use in the states, where legal. Typically though photoperiodic feminised seeds produce the most yield, that is plants that take longer to grow, they see less light or sunlight.

Also the big grow houses use cuttings from the female mothers, which they keep in a separate room and constantly just take cuttings from different strains.

I think 2 plants should be legal as an auto grow can yield quite a lot, but in smaller spaces it can be as little as 25 grams, where in a grow lab or whatever, possibly 300grams. If grown under lights 24 hours a day, the fastest auto grow I think is 5-6 weeks ready for cultivation. They tend to be indica based plants that are short and stocky.

The reason I say 2 plants is so the person can have a seedling/cutting taking off after they have finished cultivation.

I also think cannabis should be treated similar to guns, it should be in a locked cupboard or safe to keep it away from youth.

Reading that website has been quite an education for me haha. I too like you dont smoke it, but if it was legal I would try to find a strain that helped me at the end of a day, as I dont drink, its poison. Drunk enough for 3 lifetimes, it does nobody any good and even moderation its an immunosuprresant, so Id rather vape something harmless to my body that wont put me into a rage like some drunks get etc. Ive never reacted like that to alcohol, i just get cuddly and friendly. But it was doing damge to my body big time. This is safer than cellphones to our brains which is pretty blimmin safe.

This is what I mean by dragging their heels, no longer does this bill qualify for people who are incapacitated, or have severe back pain etc, only terminally ill, and its changed from cannabis to CBD extracts and its taking more than 2 years to even get to a point of voting. NZ politics is simply that politics, its not about whats best for the people its about whats best for their political career. No guts.

https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/bills-and-laws/bills-proposed-laws/document/BILL_75877/misuse-of-drugs-medicinal-cannabis-amendment-bill

 

 




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  # 2169978 30-Jan-2019 04:36
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This is the current decriminilsation state of affairs in Australia. Canberra clearly looking to legalise it. Currently 4 plants or 50 grams is a $100 fine. No offense.

NSW is slowly moving.

SA has been the longest to have had it decriminalised.

I think its a big year for people to use common sense and legalise the equivalent of coffee, doesnt harm anyone else and just gets you a bit of an upper. Sugar on the other hand is far more harmful to society than the current black market of cannabis. Just look at he mortality rates of people who eat foods laced with sugar.

http://www.responsiblechoice.com.au/cannabis/cannabis-law/

 

 


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  # 2170019 30-Jan-2019 07:25
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TeaLeaf:

 

Im looking at what NSW is providing and its not cannabis, its largely CBD extracts, the same as NZ is looking at, which is a complete joke. $35pw for an extract that without THC does nothing for psycho active part of cannabis. Its not just about pain, or inflammation etc, its about uplifting state of mind and motivation...

..What would be nice is at the end of the day to vape an indica Kush that is mostly body impacting, relaxation, pain reduction, anti muscle spasms and a little psycho active just to remain cherry, pain grinds you down. CBD medicinal extracts do not provide that effect. So screw medicinal cannabis.

 

 

Whoah! There's nothing wrong with being a bit careful. The best advice I got - at a Cannabis clinic - was "Start low go slow".
Cannabis can't 'kill' you (Unlike Opioids, the important respiratory and cardiovascular parts of your medulla oblongata lack receptors for it) but can result in dysphoria (unpleasant feelings, nausea, panic) if you dose too high (pun intended)

Though my wife comes from a science background she's definitely what I would call a free spirit - I'm a much more 'empirical science' person.

I'm truly lucky with her, when I was younger many of my hobbies involved going fast and jumping off high things. As a result I'm (physically) a bit broken. Fused vertebrae, titanium plates and screws hold my back and sore old bones together, I have both spinal and peripheral nerve damage, with associated pain - that didn't seem too important in my my 20's but grew more debilitating as I approached my half-century. She's stuck with me through all of that craziness, and recently shouldered more than her fair share of running our businesses and raising our kids.

Anyway when she suggested cannabis might help I laughed it off - over the years many of the things she's had me try (like mindful meditation, massage and yoga) have had - maybe - mild positive effects - while medically I progressed from Panadol and TENS therapy to anti spasm, inflammation and pain medications, Morphine, Pethedine and injected nerve blocks.

 

I'm not a huge fan of 'smoking' Cannabis. It's dangerous to your health and inefficient. There's an applicable study in the Harm Reduction Journal. I'd (mildly) lecture my wife and her friends about the dangers of 'smoking' pot and they'd mildly rib me about being 'not their Dad' (or less mildly accuse me -with my own self inflicted injuries- of Hypocrisy)

So I gave medical cannabis a try. I went to a "patient-oriented medical cannabis" Clinic - basically an information center with nurses who ask about your issues, existing medications, give you some counselling and advice to help start you on the way. They referred me to a specialist - a Medical Doctor - who can judge how Cannabis might interact with any medications you're already on, warn you of potential side effects, and discuss the different Routes of Administration.

 

There are two main ways of getting Cannabinoids into your blood (and from there to CBD receptors in your brain & nervous system) Ingesting - processed through your liver or inhaling.. directly into your blood  through your lungs - a much faster method.
I liked that she didn't recommend smoking it. As I mentioned, I'm not a fan. Plus smoking accesses only 10% of active chemicals - the rest are released into the air (while vaporizers - correctly used - can recover 90%). 

"Raw" THC or CBD in a bud (THCA, CBDA) isn't going to give you the desired effect.  To 'work' (attach to your receptors) when inhaled or swallowed, they must be decarboxylated (heating THCA changes it into Delta-9-THC ) Ingestible oils are heated before packaging so decarboxylation in those happens during processing. Check out this interesting video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vtc11kRinf4

So I tried CBD oil, a slow onset, long duration method. It comes in a bottle, CBD measured in mg/ml, dosed with a dropper.
It eased my spasm, gave me some mild pain relief. Was OK.

And then I tried vaping a small amount of high CBD low THC flower. A variety my wife suggested might work. I used a good quality 'medical' vaporiser.
You want to vaporise THC around 160⁰C and CBD in the 160-180⁰C range. These temperatures are chosen because the decarboxylation and melting point is surpassed but combustion has not been reached. This ensures there is no combustion or smoke with use.

 

And now you're speaking to the newly converted.. A nice Subtle effect is pretty much what it had for me. The pain is (obviously) still there – but it's not as intrusive as before. The feeling of impending spasm - that I often get - is eased, and I'm not scared that moving suddenly or coughing will disable me with a jolt of pain.

 

My wife now retails recreational Cannabis. One thing she's very careful not to do is give medical advice (in fact it's a written policy that all the staff must adhere to) and CBD oil does have it's place - sometimes it IS about pain, spasm and inflammation

 

Edit: seem to have screwed up the Youtube links



.



 

 

 





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  # 2170039 30-Jan-2019 09:00
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TeaLeaf:

 

pain grinds you down.

 

 

This! It gets ignored and overlooked in all the other discussion and theorising and conservative bla bla but it hits the nail right on the head. Fortunately I don't suffer from chronic pain but I certainly know what acute pain feels like. Even a toothache. It gets exhausting. Self-righteous dumbbells like Paula Bennet or her backward-looking mates ought to try it some time.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 




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  # 2170043 30-Jan-2019 09:14
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Sidestep:

 

Whoah! There's nothing wrong with being a bit careful.

 

 

100% agree. But common sense needs to be applied too by the government.

You just have to go through https://www.leafly.com/ to find the perfect strain for you. The Problem is its not available here. And currently importing seeds and growing is illegal. But that is the solution to the answer.

You dont want patients with Panic Disorder smoking 97% pure THC crystals, thats going to end up in a psych ward visit, yet some people a small amount it just lifts there cerebral thinking.

Thats the thing about Cannabis, it is so complex because it can help almost anything. And luckily we have an amazing tool with real person reviews of the strains. You can make it easier by simply clicking on what your problem is etc.

I think the government should make growing for personal use legal, 2 plants, 1 thats harvested and drying and cutting thats just starting to root in water etc.

So 2 plants, but obviously that could potentially yield over a pound, so I think we should limit the growth period and or limit the amount of dried cannabis allowed in a persons house to 200 grams. If the plant yields more, then tough, it has to be mulched. I personally think 25 grams is a high amount to be allowed in public with. I think it should be limited to 10 grams. No smoking in public unless its a smoke cafe if the laws change, no smoking within 25 metres of children as per aussie laws. Thats at home or anywhere. No smoking around children or Teens full stop.

Personally if it passes, I plan to vape a nice couch locking indica I was looking at last night, with a sprinkle of high thc Sative in the mix. To give that couch relaxed feel but not locked, enough THC to keep the brain thinking and be productive and plenty of pain and inflammation release from the indica.

I dont know if I will go full on with the Volcano baloon vaper, it does look awesome, or if Ill just go a 1gram Vaper.

One other thing that needs considerations, if they do it by dispensaries then hash and dab extracts should be available for recreational users.

The biggest thing is going to be eduction, starting with the basics, the two plant varieties, and the hybrids, home much THC and much CBD each contain. Then scroll through leafly to find a strain that suits you best, and go slow.

I think the best idea which is one the Green party all ready have in their policy is to hire somebody from the states as to how best set this up if they want to make money. But Im very much hoping the allow for a home grow as well.




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  # 2170093 30-Jan-2019 11:12
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Rikkitic:

 

TeaLeaf:

 

pain grinds you down.

 

 

 Even a toothache. It gets exhausting. Self-righteous dumbbells like Paula Bennet or her backward-looking mates ought to try it some time.

 

 

Im glad you get it, if we can get one person at a time.

Think of your worst tooth ache times it by 1000 and thats what chronic back pain is like 24/7 months on end. Possibly years. Hence the high addicition to opiates which kill our immune regulating endorphin system which stops cells splitting and causing things like tumours etc. Again OPIOIDS are bad.

Its not about smoking all day. For me I am at a point where I feel like I could give up on pain killers but Im going to have back pain constantly while I rehab (which ive done 10 times in 20 years). But if I could replace the pain killer and the benzo and the sleeping tablet with a good strain that sets me nice and comfy in front of the TV whilst maintaining good cognition and at the end tires me out naturally that I fall asleep.

That sounds a lot better than the apnea caused by the paink killers and the combination vegetating my brain so much I wake with puddles of drool on my pillow which I never use to have.

People are so damn ignorant. Ok Ive tried it overseas and it works. Full stop. But I knew what I was doing where we do need multiple strains grown for both medicine and recreational, or leave it up to the user to do the homework which isnt rocket science Bennett. That was your 15 minutes of fame now crawl back under a bolder in Taupo and take another hit from your micro bong.




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  # 2173153 5-Feb-2019 05:56
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I was hoping Labour would put this referendum up much earlier than this, but it appears going by wiki it is set for the same time as election 2020, November.

It also states its a binding referendum, meaning it will pass a bill I believe?

My fear is there are other referendums other parties might try to tack on top of it. If anyone in the know could explain?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_New_Zealand_cannabis_referendum

 

 


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  # 2173161 5-Feb-2019 07:05
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Any binding referendum vote outcome must be acted apon by parliment. This doesnt mean it will become law in the same year, what it means is that it still has to go through the committee stages and onto final voting in parliment i.e. pass three readings to become law.   

 

 

 

The committee stage will be where all and sundry are invited to comment on proposed said law changes and work though what is best. 

 

This is the same as any other law passed into legislation here in NZ... and im at a loss why kiwis dont have their say more often on committee stages of any law/rule being put through its motions and instead choose to moan and complain later. 


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