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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 2157592 10-Jan-2019 14:16
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Yeah, UAE and Singapore are obviously examples of the other extreme the spectrum, but the point is that without the problems that the full spectrum of drugs brings, they are very safe and prosperous places to live - far more so than N.Z.

 

You need to remember that the majority of crimes in NZ as linked to drugs - either crazy/dangerous/violent behaviour by wasted people or people committing crime to fund drugs. Liberalisation aims to reduce the incidence of the latter, but doesn't help much with the former. The other extreme (capital punishment) nips both problems in the bud. More people die from drugs in NZ than Singapore executes, so peculiarly, capital punishment does more to preserve the sanctity of life. 


gzt

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  Reply # 2157593 10-Jan-2019 14:17
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Offtopic. Perfectly ok for many characters in the christian holy book also. Back to medical cannabis..

 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 2157595 10-Jan-2019 14:19
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tripper1000:

 

Weed & synthetic weed is being laced with extra stuff, which produces more extreme behaviour than the weed of yester-year.

 

 

Can you point to any evidence backing this claim? Not the 'synthetic' bit, but the claim that weed itself is being 'laced' (a quick google didn't reveal anything).

 

With synthetics being mentioned, there was a fascinating podcast recently on Planet Money on the origins of them; well worth a listen: https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2018/12/19/678387515/episode-882-synthetic-reefer-madness


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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 2157599 10-Jan-2019 14:25
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tripper1000:

 

They are dealing with younger kids that ever before (sub 15 y.o.) getting more wasted than ever before and committing higher level crimes than ever before, such as armed robbery, stabbings/murder, home invasion etc. We're not talking social nuances like burnouts and doughnuts in cars. Apparently the media isn't even reporting the tip of the iceberg.  

 

Yeah, alcohol is usually also a factor but weed isn't as natural as it used to be. Weed & synthetic weed is being laced with extra stuff, which produces more extreme behaviour than the weed of yester-year. As someone alluded to above, having super-weed means better business and this won't diminish under liberalisation - it will probably get worse with increased competition.

 

 

While I'm sure smoking Cannabis isn't causing kids to do armed robbery, stabbings/murder, home invasions, there are clearly problems with the way Cannabis is used in NZ society right now - Apart from the glaring one of feeding money into a $multi million gang influenced illegal cash market. 

 

There's no doubt this is a drug that's harmful if used intensively and regularly by young people- and NZ has comparatively heavy rates of youth consumption..It's been proven to produce long-term psychiatric effects in susceptible individuals - and sadly those most susceptible to disorders such as schizophrenia are also far more likely to consume cannabis.

 

And smoking anything's generally bad for you. Whether tobacco or Cannabis - regularly inhaling raw smoke into your lungs is risking cancer, and the way pot's smoked is often particularly bad - in unfiltered joints or inhaled through dirty tar filled pipes. Not only smoke, but unburnt and partly burnt plant material gets sucked into lungs - and illegally sourced Pot's often bad quality (mouldy) of untested strength, grown in some shady grow-op and chemically contaminated.

 

Artificial cannabis synthetics are absolute poison

 

Criminalisation of cannabis use isn't doing much other than having a negative effect on people’s lives. Whether that's ending up with a criminal record themselves or just associating with real criminals to buy the stuff.

 

The question is (assuming replacing NZ's Govt with a repressive one, restricting freedoms in general is out) would legalisation do more harm than good?


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  Reply # 2157602 10-Jan-2019 14:26
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tripper1000:

 

Yeah, UAE and Singapore are obviously examples of the other extreme the spectrum, but the point is that without the problems that the full spectrum of drugs brings, they are very safe and prosperous places to live - far more so than N.Z.

 

 

Sorry, but that's a highly reductionist argument.

 

As mentioned above, those countries' drug policies are simply one example of their draconian laws and wider controls on the freedom of their people - it's this whole gamut of state control, a compliant population, and the specifics of their socio-historical situation (amongst many other factors, I assume)  that contributes to them being what they are  in your words, 'very safe and prosperous places to live').

 

And, by the way, two examples of countries I would never, ever want to live in.


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  Reply # 2157603 10-Jan-2019 14:28
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Geektastic:

I had no idea BMW drivers were habitual potheads. Might explain a few things....😄

 

Haha, They are a cheap rear wheel drive manual car so they are popular with kids, the popular kids have BMW's and a lot of the pop crowd smoke pot.

Nathan:

 

sounds like weed has nothing to do with anything.

 

Burn outs, littering and being a nuisance is de rigueur for bored kids.

 

I never knew BMW drivers were stereotyped as stoners ;)

 


Nope, nothing to do with weed apart from the weed forces them out of home, them doing skids actually shelled my car with stones when I was walking the dog there previously. This resulted in my call to cops to report and a very irate me. I also see that same car group going around Devonport all the time, thrashing their cars trying to be cool. Where ever you see their cars parked there is rubbish and used bongs etc left on the ground. Another example of this group is when they appeared on the local facebook page, one of them must have decided to go and park up at a nice spot to get stoned. Didn't seem to work out well.

I do not blame the cops for targeting this behavior, especially in the youth who think they are free to do as they wish.

 

This is Fort Takapuna or Fort Cautley. Huge flat gravel carpark that the community uses. 


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  Reply # 2157605 10-Jan-2019 14:29
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Hmmm I wonder if there's a correlation there:

 

 

 

"In Singapore you can find almost anything you desire but one thing in short supply, apparently, is happiness."

 





Most problems are the result of previous solutions...

All comment's I make are my own personal opinion and do not in any way, shape or form reflect the views of current or former employers unless specifically stated 

Glurp
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  Reply # 2157606 10-Jan-2019 14:30
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tripper1000:

 

Yeah, UAE and Singapore are obviously examples of the other extreme the spectrum, but the point is that without the problems that the full spectrum of drugs brings, they are very safe and prosperous places to live - far more so than N.Z.

 

You need to remember that the majority of crimes in NZ as linked to drugs - either crazy/dangerous/violent behaviour by wasted people or people committing crime to fund drugs. Liberalisation aims to reduce the incidence of the latter, but doesn't help much with the former. The other extreme (capital punishment) nips both problems in the bud. More people die from drugs in NZ than Singapore executes, so peculiarly, capital punishment does more to preserve the sanctity of life. 

 

 

This is an old discussion that has been discredited many times over. You are of course entitled to believe whatever you wish, but don't try to pass it off as fact. It isn't.

 

Apart from that, it is worth pointing out that a lot of 'drug crime' that inflates statistics is an artificial construct that results directly from drug policy. In other words, the more illegal you make it, the more crime. It doesn't prove a thing in terms of drugs causing bad behaviour. Check out the police statistics. Most of it is hapless individuals who had the bad luck to get caught with a joint, or people growing their own. It all goes into the statistics hopper and for the police it is an easy score.

 

More people die from car accidents than from drugs so, peculiarly, drug use does more to preserve the sanctity of life.

 

 

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  Reply # 2157610 10-Jan-2019 14:37
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Sidestep:

 

And smoking anything's generally bad for you. Whether tobacco or Cannabis - regularly inhaling raw smoke into your lungs is risking cancer, and the way pot's smoked is often particularly bad - in unfiltered joints or inhaled through dirty tar filled pipes. Not only smoke, but unburnt and partly burnt plant material gets sucked into lungs - and illegally sourced Pot's often bad quality (mouldy) of untested strength, grown in some shady grow-op and chemically contaminated.

 

 

... and the legalisation of weed in certain US states (as well as the more common allowance of possession for medical purposes) has shown the many, many 'delivery mechanisms' that are possible! 

 

In fact, this range of options (and a high quality of product) is far more likely in an environment where it has been legalised; capitalism flourishes in marketing the product to the consumer in as many forms as possible. Of course, this brings other issues - eg the 'edibles' problem of weed lollies...

 

The docuseries Murder Mountain (on Netflix) raises some fascinating issues I'd not considered in relation to legalisation - the impact on legalisation and all that it brings with it on those previously growing illegally - the compliance costs of going legit are such that it's just not economical for most small growers to survive, meaning the supply will be increasingly dominated by large corporates. A must-watch for those interested in this area.


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  Reply # 2157612 10-Jan-2019 14:41
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jonathan18:

 

tripper1000:

 

Weed & synthetic weed is being laced with extra stuff, which produces more extreme behaviour than the weed of yester-year.

 

 

Can you point to any evidence backing this claim? Not the 'synthetic' bit, but the claim that weed itself is being 'laced' (a quick google didn't reveal anything).

 

With synthetics being mentioned, there was a fascinating podcast recently on Planet Money on the origins of them; well worth a listen: https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2018/12/19/678387515/episode-882-synthetic-reefer-madness

 



Weed is not being laced, No one would be dumb enough to throw away free drugs and make a bunch of stoners angry by selling them crap. I have heard of this process which I think people are considering it being "Laced".
Use dry ice to somehow separate the THC from the plant matter
Make THC into hash, butter or what ever else
Spray the plant matter with fly spray
Apparently profit..



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  Reply # 2157614 10-Jan-2019 14:43
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If it is no longer a crime to use it then it is safer, folks will feel free to discuss and dislose their use to medical professionals etc. Allowing for medical Cannabis takes it out of the hands of gangs and other nasties and into the hands of medical professionals a parallel to when we grew up and got sensible about abortion. 





Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 


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  Reply # 2157617 10-Jan-2019 14:48
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Rikkitic:

 

Apart from that, it is worth pointing out that a lot of 'drug crime' that inflates statistics is an artificial construct that results directly from drug policy. In other words, the more illegal you make it, the more crime. It doesn't prove a thing in terms of drugs causing bad behaviour. Check out the police statistics. Most of it is hapless individuals who had the bad luck to get caught with a joint, or people growing their own. It all goes into the statistics hopper and for the police it is an easy score.

 

 

Plus, of course, the (miss?)use of drug laws by police to force access and undertake searches.

 

Nicely captured in a recent episode of season three of Serial - https://serialpodcast.org/season-three/3/misdemeanor-meet-mr-lawsuit


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  Reply # 2157646 10-Jan-2019 15:32
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nathan:

 

synthetic weed isn't weed whatsoever.

 

weed doesn't make teenagers do armed robberies, stabbings, murders or home invasions.

 

 

Pisses me off soo much that the synthetic poison gets labelled as cannabis, it's as much cannabis as it is lettuce.  


Glurp
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  Reply # 2157650 10-Jan-2019 15:35
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gehenna:

 

nathan:

 

synthetic weed isn't weed whatsoever.

 

weed doesn't make teenagers do armed robberies, stabbings, murders or home invasions.

 

 

Pisses me off soo much that the synthetic poison gets labelled as cannabis, it's as much cannabis as it is lettuce.  

 

 

It seems to mainly get labelled that way by people who are stuck in the past and opposed to reform and lump everything together with no interest in understanding the real issues.

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  Reply # 2157657 10-Jan-2019 15:49
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Well it didn't help that synthetics were marketed as synthetic cannabis by the companies selling it before it went underground.  


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