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896 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 2188896 28-Feb-2019 15:01
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That meme is so fundamentally wrong it has to be trolling for reactions - surely!


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  Reply # 2188910 28-Feb-2019 15:23
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tripper1000:

 

That meme is so fundamentally wrong it has to be trolling for reactions - surely!

 

You'd think so, wouldn't you? But based on some of the comments I have red, it appears tat there are people that truly believe this nonsense





Handsome Dan Has Spoken.

 
 
 
 


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Master Geek
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  Reply # 2188935 28-Feb-2019 15:53
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lNomNoml:

 

Time to make it law to have your kids vaccinated?

 

 

 

 

Why?

 

If your kids are vaccinated.. then you've got nothing to worry about right?

 

I mean if we're going to force things on people.. there's a very large list that goes in front of that one.. don't you think?


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  Reply # 2188937 28-Feb-2019 15:55
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HcoNmeM:

 

lNomNoml:

 

Time to make it law to have your kids vaccinated?

 

 

 

 

Why?

 

If your kids are vaccinated.. then you've got nothing to worry about right?

 

I mean if we're going to force things on people.. there's a very large list that goes in front of that one.. don't you think?

 

 

 

 

Diseases that were all but wiped out are coming back and that increases the risk for those who cannot for legitimate reasons have the vaccinations.





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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

Using empathy takes no energy and can gain so much. Try it.

 

 


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  Reply # 2188943 28-Feb-2019 16:02
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HcoNmeM:

 

lNomNoml:

 

Time to make it law to have your kids vaccinated?

 

 

Why?

 

If your kids are vaccinated.. then you've got nothing to worry about right?

 

 

Because having viral like measles that are highly infectious circulating in the population is a big risk to very young babies who have not yet been immunised....

 

"Measles is a highly contagious virus that lives in the nose and throat mucus of an infected person. It can spread to others through coughing and sneezing. Also, measles virus can live for up to two hours in an airspace where the infected person coughed or sneezed. If other people breathe the contaminated air or touch the infected surface, then touch their eyes, noses, or mouths, they can become infected. Measles is so contagious that if one person has it, 90% of the people close to that person who are not immune will also become infected."

 

https://www.cdc.gov/measles/about/transmission.html

 

 

 

 




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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 2188944 28-Feb-2019 16:06
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HcoNmeM:

lNomNoml:


Time to make it law to have your kids vaccinated?



 


Why?


If your kids are vaccinated.. then you've got nothing to worry about right?


I mean if we're going to force things on people.. there's a very large list that goes in front of that one.. don't you think?


Not quite. A certain, small, percentage of patients do not become immune when vaccinated. A similarly small number of patients can't be vaccinated for various (legitimate) reasons. We have to hope they'll be okay because everyone else around them has been vaccinated and is immune. This is what is known as "herd immunity", and it means the virus can't get a foothold.

Once you stop vaccinating (for non-legitimate reasons) then herd immunity goes down. It's a very fine balance, and doesn't take much to start having an effect. The effect being infection, disease, deleterious effects, and occasionally death.

So, by choosing to not vaccinate your kids your are exposing them to death or other debilitating effects, and other unfortunate souls for whom vaccination was not possible or didn't work.

To anyone who has chosen not to vaccinate, thanks a bunch: you are killing children.

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  Reply # 2188946 28-Feb-2019 16:11
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HcoNmeM:

 

If your kids are vaccinated.. then you've got nothing to worry about right?

 

 

No - that's wrong - and you damned well should know it.

 

Vaccine efficacy varies, depending on the vaccine, provides immunity to ~75-99% percent of recipients.

 

So ~ 1-25% (depending on disease) of vaccine recipients don't have full immunity, and could be infected by the children of morons who don't vaccinate their children.

 

Thus people who choose not to vaccinate their kids could not only be responsible for the illness or death of their own children who they chose not to protect, but to the children of responsible parents.

 

For something very contagious - like measles - "herd immunity" is only reached when 90-95% of the population is immune.  FWIW, efficacy of measles vaccination is claimed to be ~97%.  I'm guessing that like minded people tend to socialise together with children present, so they'd be particularly vulnerable.

 

Thus with the epidemics happening now - attributable entirely to irresponsible parents - some of the victims of that stupidity had been immunised.

 

An anti-vaxxer will try and claim that this proves "vaccines don't even work".


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  Reply # 2188963 28-Feb-2019 16:31
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FWIW, adding to the above:

 

Of the 63,413 children who turned 5 in 2018, 55,800, or 88 per cent were fully immunised for their age.

 

That's well below the figure needed for continued herd immunity for that disease, so what's happening now is no surprise.  Unless something changes, it will get worse. In 2 of the 4 cases in Cant'y, the victims of anti-vaxxers required hospitalisation.


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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 2188989 28-Feb-2019 17:07
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tripper1000:

 

FineWine:

 

mattwnz: Isn't that generally how parents see chickenpox. So some have chickenpox parties. But I see there is a vaccine for it. It appears once you have had it, it remains dormant, and can become active again later in life causing shingles.

 

Those that have chickenpox parties are just as bad as the anti-vaxxes.

 

Sort of: If there is a vaccine option, I fully agree. If there is no vaccine, there are occasions where it isn't a bad idea.

 

Some diseases can be more dangerous to adults than kids - for instance mumps (I think it is) can make adult males sterile, but male children will be fine.Chicken pox (pre vaccine days) in a pregnant woman could cause birth defects and miscarriage. So by exposing their kids to these things back when there was no/if there isn't currently, a vaccine, then parents are protecting their kids as adults.

 

Edit: Link on Chicken Pox Parties and their rational back in the day before a vaccine.

 

Where in that link does it mention "Chickenpox Parties" ?? it doesn't!! The actual story is: "You Don't Want to Get Chickenpox as an Adult—Here's Why" and the link is: https://www.self.com/story/adult-chickenpox

 

That site comes across as a click bait site with continuing scrolling stories.

 

"If there is no vaccine, there are occasions where it isn't a bad idea."

 

DO NOT DELUDE YOURSELF. Pox parties - Virus parties. Even in the days of pre-vaccine these parties really did not work and had the potential to cause more harm than good. WTF one of the below articles even mentions coming to the party with a supposedly infected lollipop, what a dangerous joke!

 

Pox party

 

Chickenpox Parties Have No Pros, Only Cons

 

Chickenpox Parties?

 

 

 

 





iMac 27" (late 2013), Airport Time Capsule + Airport Express, iPhone7, iPad6, iPad Mini2

 

Panasonic Blu-ray PVR DMR-BWT835 + Panasonic Viera TH-L50E6Z, Chromecast Ultra




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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 2189020 28-Feb-2019 18:08
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FineWine:

tripper1000:


FineWine:


mattwnz: Isn't that generally how parents see chickenpox. So some have chickenpox parties. But I see there is a vaccine for it. It appears once you have had it, it remains dormant, and can become active again later in life causing shingles.


Those that have chickenpox parties are just as bad as the anti-vaxxes.


Sort of: If there is a vaccine option, I fully agree. If there is no vaccine, there are occasions where it isn't a bad idea.


Some diseases can be more dangerous to adults than kids - for instance mumps (I think it is) can make adult males sterile, but male children will be fine.Chicken pox (pre vaccine days) in a pregnant woman could cause birth defects and miscarriage. So by exposing their kids to these things back when there was no/if there isn't currently, a vaccine, then parents are protecting their kids as adults.


Edit: Link on Chicken Pox Parties and their rational back in the day before a vaccine.


Where in that link does it mention "Chickenpox Parties" ?? it doesn't!! The actual story is: "You Don't Want to Get Chickenpox as an Adult—Here's Why" and the link is: https://www.self.com/story/adult-chickenpox


That site comes across as a click bait site with continuing scrolling stories.


"If there is no vaccine, there are occasions where it isn't a bad idea."


DO NOT DELUDE YOURSELF. Pox parties - Virus parties. Even in the days of pre-vaccine these parties really did not work and had the potential to cause more harm than good. WTF one of the below articles even mentions coming to the party with a supposedly infected lollipop, what a dangerous joke!


Pox party


Chickenpox Parties Have No Pros, Only Cons


Chickenpox Parties?


 


 



Yeah! Polio party!

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Master Geek
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  Reply # 2189278 1-Mar-2019 11:08
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Fred99:

 

HcoNmeM:

 

If your kids are vaccinated.. then you've got nothing to worry about right?

 

 

No - that's wrong - and you damned well should know it.

 

Vaccine efficacy varies, depending on the vaccine, provides immunity to ~75-99% percent of recipients.

 

So ~ 1-25% (depending on disease) of vaccine recipients don't have full immunity, and could be infected by the children of morons who don't vaccinate their children.

 

Thus people who choose not to vaccinate their kids could not only be responsible for the illness or death of their own children who they chose not to protect, but to the children of responsible parents.

 

For something very contagious - like measles - "herd immunity" is only reached when 90-95% of the population is immune.  FWIW, efficacy of measles vaccination is claimed to be ~97%.  I'm guessing that like minded people tend to socialise together with children present, so they'd be particularly vulnerable.

 

Thus with the epidemics happening now - attributable entirely to irresponsible parents - some of the victims of that stupidity had been immunised.

 

An anti-vaxxer will try and claim that this proves "vaccines don't even work".

 

 

Well.. I was never vaccinated.. not because my parents chose not to.. but because I slipped into the cracks of the system and become homeless at 15..

 

I've never had a shot.. I've only ever had the flu once.. had chicken pox and all the intermediate school spreaded viruses.. I hardly ever get sick..

 

I'm not saying don't do it.. I'm just saying forcing a blanket law on everyone isn't going to change it..

 

And if we're looking at putting rules on how people live and chose to live.. then maybe.. just maybe.. there's a fair few more higher priorities that need attention first?

 

It's like how 30 years ago they thought being gay was a sickness and wanted to force all gay people into rehab to exercise the demon out of them..

 

In regards to the genuine people that can't have it.. aren't they in turn then infectors which is what you're worried about?

 

Do we segregate people to different islands North (Vaccinated) Island and South (Non-Vaccinated) Island?

 

It's easy to push a view across.. but in reality.. is it really anyone's business how someone chooses to live?

 

Just my 2 cents.. I'm neither for or against.. 

 

 

 

Also.. one of my best friends lost his son from Meningitis.. 2 weeks after the last vaccination shot for the very strain that killed him..

 

At first it took his arms and legs.. but then it took his life.. How do we actually know these are safe? because a doctor or a pharmaceutical company say it's safe?

 

My wife was pregnant, she was hospitalised with hyperemesis.. basically she was unable to drink or eat anything without being sick..

 

I took her to the hospital and they admitted her straight away..

 

After spending a few days on the drip (to hydrate her) she was allowed to go home.. the anti nausea pills they gave her clearly in big bold letters " DO NOT GIVE TO PREGNANT OR LACTATING WOMEN"..

 

the doctor said to ignore that.. it's ok.. what do you do? trust who?

 

So I went home.. gave her a big fat cone.. she had a feed.. drunk heaps of water and went to sleep.. next day.. back to normal..

 

From then on.. a cone a day kept the doctor away..


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  Reply # 2189279 1-Mar-2019 11:11
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I have edited the previous post removing Godwin's Law reference. There is no need to use that line of argument. It's a breach of FUG so be warned @HcoNmeM







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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 2189287 1-Mar-2019 11:30
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HcoNmeM:

Well.. I was never vaccinated.. not because my parents chose not to.. but because I slipped into the cracks of the system and become homeless at 15..


I've never had a shot.. I've only ever had the flu once.. had chicken pox and all the intermediate school spreaded viruses.. I hardly ever get sick..


I'm not saying don't do it.. I'm just saying forcing a blanket law on everyone isn't going to change it..


And if we're looking at putting rules on how people live and chose to live.. then maybe.. just maybe.. there's a fair few more higher priorities that need attention first?


It's like how 30 years ago they thought being gay was a sickness and wanted to force all gay people into rehab to exercise the demon out of them..


In regards to the genuine people that can't have it.. aren't they in turn then infectors which is what you're worried about?


Do we segregate people to different islands North (Vaccinated) Island and South (Non-Vaccinated) Island?


It's easy to push a view across.. but in reality.. is it really anyone's business how someone chooses to live?


Just my 2 cents.. I'm neither for or against.. 



If someone is not vaccinated then they can get the disease. It spreads through unvaccinated people. If you can not be immunised for legitimate reasons (as stated above) then you have to hope that those around you don't get the disease. If those around you have been vaccinated (and it was successful) then you're fine. If some idiot chose not to be vaccinated, or some idiot parent prevented them from being vaccinated then you're toast (them too, most likely). Measles, and other communicable diseases are no fun, have serious and lasting negative effects on health, and may lead to death.

I would suggest that your non-vaccinated state is not your fault, however I would recommend you get vaccinated now. Measles is on the rise, but the vaccine is effective and safe. If it spreads to where you live you might get sick and die. I'm vaccinated, so I'm not at all concerned.

Your comment about curing gay people is interesting. You are right we (generally) don't do that anymore, because we have learned. The first vaccination was tested in 1796, so we've had plenty of time to prove it doesn't work or is pointless, however, that is not the case. We have learned not to persecute gay people, and we have learned that vaccines work (and not being vaccinated doesn't work).

Seriously, see a doctor, get vaccinated.

Edited to add: Sorry, I meant to address your specific point "is it really anyone's business how someone chooses to live?". Yes, your choice to be unvaccinated could kill other people.

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  Reply # 2189289 1-Mar-2019 11:33
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HcoNmeM:

 

From then on.. a cone a day kept the doctor away..

 

 

This is a saying that has been going around for years in my friend group haha. Not one of them has been to the doctors for anything but a chest infection for years... Other than that, everyone's healthy. 


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  Reply # 2189292 1-Mar-2019 11:39
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I had my last vaccination prior to 5 years old. Since then I have not hand a needle touch me apart from dad digging out thistles and one single blood test last year. My sister only had her first set done and my mum was apparently super upset from how she reacted and didn't have further ones done. 

 

Both of us never had meningococcal when it was going around in 2005-2006. Never had teatnus and never had a flu shot. Have cut myself deep with non sterile surfaces like a huge nail plate in a roof. Been sweet as. 

Both of us are really healthy, never get sick. @hio77 and most others reckon I am super Autistic but that is probably not from my first set of vaccinations.

I won't be rushing to get vaccinated further nor will my sister. AFAIK it is seriously not cheap either.


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