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mattwnz
16832 posts

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  #2572119 22-Sep-2020 15:01
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Reanalyse:

I'm a little worried about Nationals plan to privatise quarantine - especially remembering what happened in Melbourne and the fact that even with current strict(ish) structure we still get escapees.


 



Agree. If there are holes the private contractor then also gets the blame instead of the government directly. IMO it is not the sort of thing to be privatised. It should continue to involve the military. The fact is the the current system is working so why change things. Where holes have been found things have been improved to fix those holes. As far as I am aware there are no private companies that are used to managing quarantine for countries during a pandemic.

frankv
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  #2572168 22-Sep-2020 15:06
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Reanalyse:

 

I'm a little worried about Nationals plan to privatise quarantine - especially remembering what happened in Melbourne and the fact that even with current strict(ish) structure we still get escapees.

 

 

And didn't their privatisation of prisons go well!

 

 


 
 
 
 


wellygary
4995 posts

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  #2572208 22-Sep-2020 16:26
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Reanalyse:

 

I'm a little worried about Nationals plan to privatise quarantine - especially remembering what happened in Melbourne and the fact that even with current strict(ish) structure we still get escapees.

 

 

There exact wording is

 

"Any new managed isolation facility would need to meet the costs of Government safety and security requirements, safe and secure transport of visitors, and other costs as required. They will be able to set their own charges for their facilities."

 

Given that the government have scooped all of the large hotels that meet the current standards it basically means smaller hotels,

 

....and I'm guessing its to allow the non kiwi super-rich and corporate set to isolate at some of the remote boutique lodges....  so National can say they are not taking capacity away from NZers who want to return home..... ( once a booking system is introduced for the existing  MIQ process)


kingdragonfly
5095 posts

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  #2572213 22-Sep-2020 16:47
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Speaking to reporters at the White House late Wednesday, Trump argued the United States ishandling the virus well "despite the fact that the blue states had tremendous death rates.

"If you take the blue states out," he continued, "we're at a level that I don't think anybody in the world would be at. We're really at a very low level but some of the states – they were blue states, and blue-state managed."

New York, California, and New Jersey – all blue states in presidential elections – were among the states with the highest number of deaths from coronavirus. But they are also the states with the largest populations in the country, and they were the first to experience and tackle major outbreaks of the disease.


wellygary
4995 posts

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  #2572217 22-Sep-2020 17:04
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kingdragonfly: Speaking to reporters at the White House late Wednesday, Trump argued the United States ishandling the virus well "despite the fact that the blue states had tremendous death rates.

"If you take the blue states out," he continued, "we're at a level that I don't think anybody in the world would be at. We're really at a very low level but some of the states – they were blue states, and blue-state managed."

New York, California, and New Jersey – all blue states in presidential elections – were among the states with the highest number of deaths from coronavirus. But they are also the states with the largest populations in the country, and they were the first to experience and tackle major outbreaks of the disease.

 

It would be funny if it wasn't so sad and depressing,

 

Texas (one of those great red states) has had more deaths than California despite having 10 million fewer people ( and fewer diagnosed cases- likely indicating that testing is probably not as extensive  - yip just looked it up Texas is a testing laggard)

 

 

 

 


ezbee
354 posts

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  #2572269 22-Sep-2020 17:47
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frankv:

 

Reanalyse:

 

I'm a little worried about Nationals plan to privatise quarantine - especially remembering what happened in Melbourne and the fact that even with current strict(ish) structure we still get escapees.

 

 

And didn't their privatisation of prisons go well!

 

 

Well fight Clubs might ease boredom, and welcomed by some guests.

 

Never mind ours were more privatized,  the hotels are private, and them and the security companies etc were running things their way.
That did not work out, thus ever tighter control by Government via Military, Police and  reducing roles of private security.

 

Problem is consequences of getting this wrong are big.

 

Never mind Victoria, who wants to be in UK about to get the big speech ? 

 

We are lucky so far, and there are so many things even under Level 1 or Level 2 that we will be doing that others can only dream of. 

 

 


kingdragonfly
5095 posts

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  #2572288 22-Sep-2020 18:03
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Not a well-written article, since doesn't compare difference. Just a retiree whinging about Australia.

Stuff: Coronavirus: Managed isolation in NZ 'humane' compared to 'brutal' Australia

Peter Macky recently flew home to New Zealand from Berlin via Doha and Sydney. He experienced managed isolation in both Australia and Auckland.

  • NZ: 30 minutes & treated as humans. Aus: 3 hours, surly
  • Aus: Only 4,000 returns / month. Months to return. (NZ ???)
  • Aud: can't unlock door yourself
  • Aus: no choice on meals, no info on meal's contents
  • Aus: mental health by phone only (NZ ???)
  • Aus: exercise walk around 45 minutes (NZ ???)

 
 
 
 


tdgeek
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  #2572309 22-Sep-2020 18:47
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Reanalyse:

 

I'm a little worried about Nationals plan to privatise quarantine - especially remembering what happened in Melbourne and the fact that even with current strict(ish) structure we still get escapees.

 

 

 

 

I'll do the Variance Report I used to do. Look for expenses we can trim... Salary and Wages is always worth a look.


mattwnz
16832 posts

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  #2572326 22-Sep-2020 19:21
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wellygary:

 

Reanalyse:

 

I'm a little worried about Nationals plan to privatise quarantine - especially remembering what happened in Melbourne and the fact that even with current strict(ish) structure we still get escapees.

 

 

There exact wording is

 

"Any new managed isolation facility would need to meet the costs of Government safety and security requirements, safe and secure transport of visitors, and other costs as required. They will be able to set their own charges for their facilities."

 

Given that the government have scooped all of the large hotels that meet the current standards it basically means smaller hotels,

 

....and I'm guessing its to allow the non kiwi super-rich and corporate set to isolate at some of the remote boutique lodges....  so National can say they are not taking capacity away from NZers who want to return home..... ( once a booking system is introduced for the existing  MIQ process)

 

 

I would like to see a reporter ask that question, because some people should not get special treatment just because they are prepared to pay more. Not that some politicians actually answer questions. I say Jack / James Tame on Q& A trying to get a straight answer out to a simple question,  of the National shadow finance minister, and couldn't, as to why lower wage people didn't deserve as much money from the covid relief take cuts, as the higher wage people. He seems to imply that higher wage people work harder for their money, so they deserve a larger tax cut, which I don't think was a good answer.

 

 

 

I also see that one of Australias radio shows are doing a test of NZs quarantine hotels at the moment, with one of their rado hosts staying in one. I think they are currently up to day 5. The Jase and PJ show incase anyone is wondering.  The hotel actually looks really good and good food too. They even have a spa pool in the room, as well as the normal bathroom.  They were comparing it to Australias, and NZs appear to be luxury and people well looked after compared to Australias. I am guessing that is one reason we aren't hearing too many complaints about them. It does appear things are being done right.


Handle9
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  #2572330 22-Sep-2020 19:22
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kingdragonfly: Not a well-written article, since doesn't compare difference. Just a retiree whinging about Australia.

Stuff: Coronavirus: Managed isolation in NZ 'humane' compared to 'brutal' Australia

Peter Macky recently flew home to New Zealand from Berlin via Doha and Sydney. He experienced managed isolation in both Australia and Auckland.

 

  • NZ: 30 minutes & treated as humans. Aus: 3 hours, surly
  • Aus: Only 4,000 returns / month. Months to return. (NZ ???)
  • Aud: can't unlock door yourself
  • Aus: no choice on meals, no info on meal's contents
  • Aus: mental health by phone only (NZ ???)
  • Aus: exercise walk around 45 minutes (NZ ???)

 

It's a fairly terrible piece. Australia and NZ have placed fairly similar restrictions on citizens returning (rationing flights, compulsory quarantine etc).

 

Anecdotally there are at a minimum hundreds of New Zealanders who have had flights cancelled. The NZ quarantine situation has gotten better but the flight availability hasn't.


Scott3
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  #2572367 22-Sep-2020 20:30
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Handle9:

 

kingdragonfly: Not a well-written article, since doesn't compare difference. Just a retiree whinging about Australia.

Stuff: Coronavirus: Managed isolation in NZ 'humane' compared to 'brutal' Australia

Peter Macky recently flew home to New Zealand from Berlin via Doha and Sydney. He experienced managed isolation in both Australia and Auckland.

 

  • NZ: 30 minutes & treated as humans. Aus: 3 hours, surly
  • Aus: Only 4,000 returns / month. Months to return. (NZ ???)
  • Aud: can't unlock door yourself
  • Aus: no choice on meals, no info on meal's contents
  • Aus: mental health by phone only (NZ ???)
  • Aus: exercise walk around 45 minutes (NZ ???)

 

It's a fairly terrible piece. Australia and NZ have placed fairly similar restrictions on citizens returning (rationing flights, compulsory quarantine etc).

 

Anecdotally there are at a minimum hundreds of New Zealanders who have had flights cancelled. The NZ quarantine situation has gotten better but the flight availability hasn't.

 

 

I agree that the piece is fairly terrible. It includes the below line:

 

Our Covid-19 quarantine regime is safe, humane and rational. [emphasis mine]

 

This is a serious stretch. It has failed in it's primary goal to keep New Zealanders safe, and it although the source of the Auckland outbreak has yet to be traced it seems likely that our quarantine regime's failures has caused fatalities. There also are 2 examples where staff have got sick & 1 example where a sick person has left managed isolation. A combination of luck that & aggressive contact tracing along with heightened alert levels is all that kept the community safe in these instances.

 

A lot of those things in the bullet point list are trading off safety. For example being able to freely explore the hotel. Given we have had a maintenance worker get sick from using an elevator after a guest, this is perhaps not such a good idea.

 

Should note that the writers experience may have been not as good if he had of been put on a bus without notice that they were going to to a 3 star hotel in Hamilton or Rotorua.

 

 

 

Regarding capacity, NZ also has limits, but ours are a larger (substantially so on a per capital basis). NZ had the same issues where it was extremely hard to secure a flight home. It seems that the pressure to get into NZ has eased, and we are likely to have some capacity up our sleeves at some point. There is talk of shortly allocating 10% of incoming slots to allow highly skilled work visa holders into NZ. 


Oblivian
4311 posts

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  #2572379 22-Sep-2020 20:46
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Scott3:

 

Regarding capacity, NZ also has limits, but ours are a larger (substantially so on a per capital basis). NZ had the same issues where it was extremely hard to secure a flight home. It seems that the pressure to get into NZ has eased, and we are likely to have some capacity up our sleeves at some point. There is talk of shortly allocating 10% of incoming slots to allow highly skilled work visa holders into NZ. 

 

 

Still flowing well. This is done daily. 200-500 a day in (sometimes as many out, which seems odd right?)

 

https://www.mbie.govt.nz/business-and-employment/economic-development/covid-19-data-resources/managed-isolation-and-quarantine-data/ 


Scott3
1146 posts

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  #2572393 22-Sep-2020 21:22
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Oblivian:

 

Still flowing well. This is done daily. 200-500 a day in (sometimes as many out, which seems odd right?)

 

https://www.mbie.govt.nz/business-and-employment/economic-development/covid-19-data-resources/managed-isolation-and-quarantine-data/ 

 

 

I think the projected inflows are the number's sourced from airline bookings. Not all of these people arrive. In the last 3 days 1,395 arrivals were forcast, and only 1,240 actually turned up.

 

On average a percentage of people fail to show for flights, get refused boarding (perhaps not the right paperwork for a transit city) etc. It appears we don't overbook our managed isolation to compensate for this.

 

 

 

Projected outflows will be much more accurate to project. Unless people fail a test, or their isolation gets breached, they will leave isolation after 14 day's.

 

 

 

Roughly 2500 arrivals per week for the next two weeks. With an effective capacity of 7,346, assuming we release everybody at 14 days, we should be able to handle 3,300 per week with a 10% buffer.

I'm not sure if our arrivals are capped by isolation slot arrivals, or just the number of people that want to come home. Judging by what was on TV today sounds like it might be the latter.


Ge0rge
778 posts

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  #2572396 22-Sep-2020 21:25
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Be nice if they dialed the numbers right back for a couple of weeks leading up to xmas so those people working in the facilities can have some time off to spend with their families.

Can't see it happening though.

Oblivian
4311 posts

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  #2572429 22-Sep-2020 21:48
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Slapping myself on the forehead once I realised the 'departing' figure is those leaving MIQ... NOT leaving the country as an immigration statistic.. Durrrrrr (I was asking myself why we had so many departing people.. but that's not the right figures!)

 

I believe the limiting is set by capacity. And Using those tables leaving themselves 500-1000 'beds' (I believe its people space rather than rooms) they will tell airlines how many more seats they can release/limit and try to aim as close to the 7000 mark as possible while leaving a couple of days cleaning and stand-down overlap.


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