2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2593172 29-Oct-2020 11:46

Hard to know what everyone wants with this, the incessant complaining over our border, the leaks, the leaks and the leaks, and yet top epidemiologists now say that people from low risk countries could self quarantine. Reduce MIQ by a week and they can voluntary quarantine at home. No, its not voluntary, but we have seen that infection can occur inside, that tests are not foolproof, that people will readily break the rules in MIQ and smash stuff to get out. Now they say just a week in MIQ, then go home

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300144738/covid19-epidemiologists-propose-partial-home-quarantine-for-travellers-entering-new-zealand-from-lowrisk-countries

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Handsomedan

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#2593176 29-Oct-2020 11:56

tdgeek:

Hard to know what everyone wants with this, the incessant complaining over our border, the leaks, the leaks and the leaks, and yet top epidemiologists now say that people from low risk countries could self quarantine. Reduce MIQ by a week and they can voluntary quarantine at home. No, its not voluntary, but we have seen that infection can occur inside, that tests are not foolproof, that people will readily break the rules in MIQ and smash stuff to get out. Now they say just a week in MIQ, then go home

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300144738/covid19-epidemiologists-propose-partial-home-quarantine-for-travellers-entering-new-zealand-from-lowrisk-countries

So when people are being identified after a week in MIQ as being COVID-positive, they'd be the same people that are being trusted to stay at home and "do the right thing"?

Personally, I'd rather it stays at 2 weeks in MIQ and no exceptions are given.

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tdgeek

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#2593185 29-Oct-2020 12:05

Handsomedan:

tdgeek:

Hard to know what everyone wants with this, the incessant complaining over our border, the leaks, the leaks and the leaks, and yet top epidemiologists now say that people from low risk countries could self quarantine. Reduce MIQ by a week and they can voluntary quarantine at home. No, its not voluntary, but we have seen that infection can occur inside, that tests are not foolproof, that people will readily break the rules in MIQ and smash stuff to get out. Now they say just a week in MIQ, then go home

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300144738/covid19-epidemiologists-propose-partial-home-quarantine-for-travellers-entering-new-zealand-from-lowrisk-countries

So when people are being identified after a week in MIQ as being COVID-positive, they'd be the same people that are being trusted to stay at home and "do the right thing"?

Personally, I'd rather it stays at 2 weeks in MIQ and no exceptions are given.

My main take is that we have proven that trust cannot be trusted. We already accept that tests are not a Govt guarantee, so 14 days is supposedly the ok number of days to wait it out. Home quarantine will be voluntary no matter what spin or rules are put in place. A leak proposed by the experts

Oblivian

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#2593191 29-Oct-2020 12:19

Don't fall into the Fox news NZ concentration camp articles.. It's a deep hole full of so much rage building claims.

Fred99

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#2593192 29-Oct-2020 12:23

Handsomedan:

Personally, I'd rather it stays at 2 weeks in MIQ and no exceptions are given.

Me too.

Maybe the experts formed an opinion before this became news:

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/incredible-breakdown-how-one-less-22908103

A new report has given a breakdown of how 59 people got Covid-19 associated with a flight into Ireland this summer.
The study was published by European scientific journal Eurosurveillance in cooperation with the Health Service Executive and says it shows how in-flight transmission of the virus can take place.
The outbreak of cases was linked to a seven and a half hour flight from the Middle East to Ireland.
It had only 49 of the 283 seats filled, 17% of capacity.

Maybe they don't do their household shopping either. I do, and as I've mentioned before, I seem to be one of very few people using the contact tracing app, hand sanitiser etc. Most people are just walking straight in.

frankv

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#2593242 29-Oct-2020 12:52

tdgeek:

top epidemiologists now say that people from low risk countries could self quarantine. Reduce MIQ by a week and they can voluntary quarantine at home. No, its not voluntary, but we have seen that infection can occur inside, that tests are not foolproof, that people will readily break the rules in MIQ and smash stuff to get out. Now they say just a week in MIQ, then go home

You have overlooked the key words "with appropriate safeguards".

I'm not sure what exactly is appropriate, given the escapees from MIQ and so on, but maybe some kind of GPS-tracked ankle bracelet? And some mechanism to keep visitors at bay.

tdgeek

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#2593254 29-Oct-2020 13:06

frankv:

tdgeek:

top epidemiologists now say that people from low risk countries could self quarantine. Reduce MIQ by a week and they can voluntary quarantine at home. No, its not voluntary, but we have seen that infection can occur inside, that tests are not foolproof, that people will readily break the rules in MIQ and smash stuff to get out. Now they say just a week in MIQ, then go home

You have overlooked the key words "with appropriate safeguards".

I'm not sure what exactly is appropriate, given the escapees from MIQ and so on, but maybe some kind of GPS-tracked ankle bracelet? And some mechanism to keep visitors at bay.

Not overlooked. That they use that term means they have no clue how to 100% secure people in their own unlocked home. Ankle bracelets already exist, like windows they will keep honest people home. In fact I'd wager that the escapees and flouters are not criminals, but its ok to break "this" rule, and they have and do. Seems to me to be a reduce cost option and increase risk

KrazyKid

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#2593266 29-Oct-2020 13:29

Not sure what the "right" answer is.
Everything in life is risk : reward or (risk : cost).

I do note that Taiwan self isolates at home for new arrivals and they are doing better than we are.
I'd be happy with a model that emulates Taiwan's success.

tdgeek

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#2593271 29-Oct-2020 13:40

KrazyKid:

Not sure what the "right" answer is.
Everything in life is risk : reward or (risk : cost).

I do note that Taiwan self isolates at home for new arrivals and they are doing better than we are.
I'd be happy with a model that emulates Taiwan's success.

Its a culture difference IMHO. She'll be right mate is a Kiwi "quality". Its not great when you want compliance.

Any model will do fine, you just need the people's attitude to comply, you cannot manufacture that.

Handsomedan

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#2593278 29-Oct-2020 13:42

KrazyKid:

Not sure what the "right" answer is.
Everything in life is risk : reward or (risk : cost).

I do note that Taiwan self isolates at home for new arrivals and they are doing better than we are.
I'd be happy with a model that emulates Taiwan's success.

The Taiwanese are probably culturally more adept at doing the right thing than us kiwis...

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wellygary

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#2593334 29-Oct-2020 14:30

Taiwan’s electronic fence has drawn some complaints for its intrusiveness.

“It’s creepy that the government is teaming up with telecommunications companies to track our phones,” said a flight attendant in Taipei who was put under 14-day quarantine after returning from Europe in mid-March.

The woman, who identified herself as Xiaomei, said she was scolded by a local administrator after failing to pick up a check-in phone call in the morning when she was asleep.

“They said the police will come to me if I missed another phone call,” she said. “I’m treated like a prisoner.”

Quarantine violators can be fined up to T$1 million ($32,955).

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-taiwan-surveillanc-idUSKBN2170SK

We're already getting stick from the crazies about running quarantine camps, :)...

Just imagine what would happen if they rolled out this....

KrazyKid

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#2593465 29-Oct-2020 15:49

I'd give people the choice, 2 weeks in a hotel room, or big brother monitoring at home.

You choose what you are comfortable with.

Personally Google owns my digital soul, with Facebook not far back in line.
The government monitoring would be minor in that queue :)

Fred99

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#2593486 29-Oct-2020 16:52

A problem with self-isolating at home is that in a typical household with 4 people, the chance of transmitting it to others is very high, and as they're likely to be contagious when pre-symptomatic, they really need to be quarantined together - if full isolation isn't possible. And tested - the arrival at 3 days and 12 days seems to work OK, but if a positive test confirmed then everybody in the house goes back to day one. Then if isolated/quarantined as per what we're doing now, "false negatives" aren't much of a problem, as after 14 days if arriving infected but not (yet) symptomatic, by day 14 you're unlikely to be contagious even if you had it and were asymptomatic. Not so for household members who may have been infected a week after the arrival moved in. It's an increased risk - even if people follow rules.

So what do they actually do in Taiwan WRT self-quarantine, isolation, testing at home etc?

Oblivian

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#2593498 29-Oct-2020 17:23

Fred99:

So what do they actually do in Taiwan WRT self-quarantine, isolation, testing at home etc?

Door knocks. And come chasing you if you went out with your phone on..

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/coronavirus-taiwan-update-phone-tracking-lockdown-quarantine-a9413091.html

Basically put the jeebes so up them noone dared to.

The system monitors phone signals to alert police and local officials if those in home quarantine move away from their address or turn off their phones. Mr Hong-wei said authorities will contact or visit those who trigger an alert within 15 minutes.

Officials also call twice a day to ensure people don’t avoid tracking by leaving their phones at home.

mattwnz

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#2593525 29-Oct-2020 19:13

tdgeek:

Hard to know what everyone wants with this, the incessant complaining over our border, the leaks, the leaks and the leaks, and yet top epidemiologists now say that people from low risk countries could self quarantine. Reduce MIQ by a week and they can voluntary quarantine at home. No, its not voluntary, but we have seen that infection can occur inside, that tests are not foolproof, that people will readily break the rules in MIQ and smash stuff to get out. Now they say just a week in MIQ, then go home

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300144738/covid19-epidemiologists-propose-partial-home-quarantine-for-travellers-entering-new-zealand-from-lowrisk-countries

It didn't work before, leading to the first lockdown. Some people won't comply, and for those that do, some people will visit them in their houses. So even ankle bracelets aren't foolproof. Plus that would make them feel even more like a prisoner than staying in a quality hotel for a few weeks.

Plus are there even that many low risk countries now. Most countries now seem to be getting huge third waves. UK for example is likely going to be in lockdown before Christmas. You just have to look up the looming deaths coming up, based on the graphs on worldometer.

Maybe we will have a travel bubble with Oz next year, but they have had some pretty big stupid failures. NZs failures, including the most recently one with not testing or quarantining incoming crew replacements for ships is a failure that likely led to this latest smaller community outbreak. I woulnd't be surprised if something similar wasn't the cause of the big Auckland outbreak.

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