2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2609765 24-Nov-2020 13:09

tdgeek:

frankv:

Immigrants are generally required to provide a medical certificate and Xray certificate. The medical certificate requires a blood test. So some medical ethics and human rights have already been trampled.

Human rights been trampled? How so? There are rules for almost everything in life, and most things are voluntary, as immigrating is.

That was somewhat tongue-in-cheek, given the post I was replying to was expecting pushback against compulsory vaccination on the grounds of medical ethics and human rights.

Fred99

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#2609775 24-Nov-2020 13:37

frankv:

That was somewhat tongue-in-cheek, given the post I was replying to was expecting pushback against compulsory vaccination on the grounds of medical ethics and human rights.

Issuing a medical certificate after a standard consultation/examination and doing a chest x-ray aren't the same as giving a vaccination. While it might be okay from a HR perspective to not allow visas for non-resident people entering Australia who refuse vaccination, it's back to the similar issues with HR and denying your own citizens the right to return home unless they consent to having an invasive medical treatment. I don't want it to happen and blow-up as an issue, but I think it's very likely that it will - because morons are plentiful. Look on the bright side though - if airlines won't fly you and governments won't grant Visas, then Pete Evans' fans in NZ won't ever be able to meet him in person.

There could be another spanner in the works. I'm not sure if any vaccine safety trials have been conducted on volunteers who have had covid. I thought from some of the information I was reading months ago that trial participants were screened and those who had C-19 antibodies were excluded from the trials.

kingdragonfly

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#2609824 24-Nov-2020 14:37

Washington Post: AstraZeneca coronavirus vaccine up to 90% effective and easily transportable, company says

AstraZeneca on Monday became the third pharmaceutical company to announce positive results from late-stage trials of a coronavirus vaccine, saying that its candidate, developed by Oxford University, was "highly effective."

Scientists and politicians alike hailed the third straight week of buoyant scientific news as a sign that, even as coronavirus cases surge to devastating levels in many countries, an end to the pandemic is in sight.

The AstraZeneca candidate was 70 percent effective on average, with up to 90 percent efficacy in a smaller group that got a lower dosage. Pfizer and its German partner BioNTech and Moderna have each reported vaccines that were 95 percent effective in clinical trials. Different trial designs make direct comparison complicated, but even with somewhat lower protection, the AstraZeneca vaccine may be a more realistic option for much of the world, as it is likely to be less expensive and does not need to be stored at subzero temperatures.

Peter Piot, director of the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine, who was instrumental in the battle against AIDS, said the positive results from three vaccine candidates cannot be overestimated.

He said that “2020 will be remembered for the many lives lost from covid-19, lockdowns and the U.S. election. Science should now be added to this list.” He added that “the only way to stop covid-19 in its tracks is having multiple effective and safe vaccines that can be deployed all around the world and in vast quantities.”

“I’m totally delighted,” said Hildegund C.J. Ertl, a vaccine expert at the Wistar Institute in Philadelphia. “What it tells me is this virus can be beaten quite easily: 90 to 95 percent efficacy is something we’d dream about for influenza virus, and we’d never get it.”

In years when the flu vaccine is a good match for the strain in circulation, it ranges between 40 and 60 percent effective.
...

DS248

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#2609827 24-Nov-2020 14:42

wellygary:

Victoria now have no active cases, they are less than a week from 28 days of no community transmission, and would qualify as having reached "elimination" status,

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-24/last-victorian-covid-patient-leaves-hospital/12913756

NSW appear to be in the final stages of mopping up its remaining cluster, with no Community transmission for 16 days, and SA appears to have escaped its pizza-gate outbreak turning into a full scale disaster....

In fact, just 3 days off the 28 days with no cases.

Another milestone for Victoria - for the first time since the pandemic began, they have no active cases.

https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/premier-daniel-andrews-confirms-victoria-records-zero-active-covid-19-cases--c-1639150

frankv

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#2609841 24-Nov-2020 14:57

Fred99:

frankv:

That was somewhat tongue-in-cheek, given the post I was replying to was expecting pushback against compulsory vaccination on the grounds of medical ethics and human rights.

Issuing a medical certificate after a standard consultation/examination and doing a chest x-ray aren't the same as giving a vaccination. While it might be okay from a HR perspective to not allow visas for non-resident people entering Australia who refuse vaccination, it's back to the similar issues with HR and denying your own citizens the right to return home unless they consent to having an invasive medical treatment.

I did make the point that in the past vaccinations were mandatory, so there's some precedent for abrogating that human right. And you've skipped over the fact that blood tests are a requirement for the "standard consultation/examination", so arguably just as invasive as a vaccination.

But yes, people are allowed to return home, vaccinated or not.

kingdragonfly

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#2609847 24-Nov-2020 15:00

Might I suggest Air NZ do the same?

BBC News: Covid: Vaccination will be required to fly, says Qantas chief

International air travellers will in future need to prove they have been vaccinated against Covid-19 in order to board Qantas flights, the airline says.

The Australian flag carrier's boss, Alan Joyce, said the move would be "a necessity" when vaccines are available.

"I think that's going to be a common thing talking to my colleagues in other airlines around the globe," he said.

...In an interview with Australia's Nine Network on Monday, Mr Joyce said Qantas was looking at ways of changing its terms and conditions for international travellers as the industry, which has been hit hard by travel restrictions, looks at ways of moving forward.

"We will ask people to have a vaccination before they can get on the aircraft... for international visitors coming out and people leaving the country we think that's a necessity," he told the broadcaster.

In August, Australia's Prime Minister Scott Morrison said it was likely that any successful vaccine would become "as mandatory as you could possibly make it".

"There are always exemptions for any vaccine on medical grounds, but that should be the only basis," he told radio station 3AW....

DS248

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#2609854 24-Nov-2020 15:14

DS248:

Another milestone for Victoria - for the first time since the pandemic began, they have no active cases.

https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/premier-daniel-andrews-confirms-victoria-records-zero-active-covid-19-cases--c-1639150

Oops, not quite right. First time since 29 Feb.

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#2609902 24-Nov-2020 16:27

We now have Minister Hipkins today reinforcing that border restrictions will be in place for up to 18 months before our borders are open.

Assuming overseas vaccination rollouts such as the UK do go to plan and they do have the entire population vaccinated with their two doses by April as they're planning and other western countries also complete their vaccine programs by the middle of 2021 like many want then NZ is just going to be a little country at the bottom of the planet with a closed sign up for potentially another year. That's going to start to create a lot of issues for a lot of people based here.

MikeB4

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#2609905 24-Nov-2020 16:32

Opening the border prematurely will create bigger problems for a lot of people.

wellygary

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#2609914 24-Nov-2020 17:03

sbiddle:

We now have Minister Hipkins today reinforcing that border restrictions will be in place for up to 18 months before our borders are open.

Assuming overseas vaccination rollouts such as the UK do go to plan and they do have the entire population vaccinated with their two doses by April as they're planning and other western countries also complete their vaccine programs by the middle of 2021 like many want then NZ is just going to be a little country at the bottom of the planet with a closed sign up for potentially another year. That's going to start to create a lot of issues for a lot of people based here.

Australia's agreement for the AZ "Oxford" vaccine included domestic production in OZ which was described as

"And we can produce for Australia, for New Zealand, for our South Pacific region to help others."

So all going well we should have a good opportunity to have access to this by mid 2021.???

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-19/scott-morrison-covid-19-vaccine-pacific-south-east-asia/12575132

Fred99

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#2609925 24-Nov-2020 18:03

MikeB4:

Opening the border prematurely will create bigger problems for a lot of people.

Absolutely. It can't be allowed to happen until there's sufficient immunity in our population.

Also I doubt it could or should be "get a shot today - fly tomorrow". Probably need at least a month. Even if protected, being vaccinated doesn't mean you can't contract and pass on the disease to others.

Airlines should not be calling the shots as to what "should" happen. Airlines were the main vector - enabling it to become a global pandemic.

tdgeek

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#2609935 24-Nov-2020 18:38

sbiddle:

We now have Minister Hipkins today reinforcing that border restrictions will be in place for up to 18 months before our borders are open.

Assuming overseas vaccination rollouts such as the UK do go to plan and they do have the entire population vaccinated with their two doses by April as they're planning and other western countries also complete their vaccine programs by the middle of 2021 like many want then NZ is just going to be a little country at the bottom of the planet with a closed sign up for potentially another year. That's going to start to create a lot of issues for a lot of people based here.

I feel his stance is conservative. We have no idea how these vaccines will pan out. They could be God's Gift or they could be full of holes. I concur, play the safe game then change the rules when needed

tdgeek

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#2609936 24-Nov-2020 18:39

MikeB4:

Opening the border prematurely will create bigger problems for a lot of people.

100%. You can easily shift the goal posts if needed (and proven)

sbiddle

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#2610014 24-Nov-2020 20:41

MikeB4:

Opening the border prematurely will create bigger problems for a lot of people.

Covid isn't just magically going to be eliminated from the planet just because we have a vaccine. It's going to continue to exist, people will be infected, and some will die - just like the several hundred people that die each year in New Zealand from influenza.

The progress of treatments for those who can't have the vaccine will continue and there is already a lot of hope in the Oxford / Astrazenica antibody injection which will (hopefully) provide medium term protection for people potentially like you.

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#2610017 24-Nov-2020 20:46

I read somewhere Scott Morrison has said he will try to make the *vaccine "as mandatory as possible" to Australians!

He did qualify the mandatoriness of vaccines would be one that is proven effective

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