2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2636159 15-Jan-2021 16:47

mattwnz:
They could always turn the air-conditioning off, but that could be worse in summer, as I don't think windows open in some of these hotels.

That would be illegal.

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tdgeek

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#2636171 15-Jan-2021 17:32

mattwnz:

I am talking about the UK strain, which is already in NZ.

We don't live in a goldfish bowl, what is happening overseas affects us in NZ, to in how we manage these new strains. We don't know if what we have done in the past will work with this new more infectious strain., . This is why in Australia they went straight into lockdown in one of the states, to control it, which they probably wouldn't have done if it wasn't the new strain. One of the last outbreaks of the virus, we didn't go into any lockdown, and it was managed with contact tracing,

But I think they have already said that if the new strain gets out into the community, it will likely mean a lockdown and for longer as it has the potential for explosive growth eg https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-new-uk-strain-would-need-longer-level-4-lockdown-if-outbreak-here-scientist/F3XD75ENIP72K5BD6VADIWMPM4/ So it isn't going to be the same, it is potentially going to be treated far more seriously. Then we have this new Brazil strain which also looks bad.

Unless you close the border to everyone, there is always a risk. I cant see any other way to manage it. As stated above its not feasible to build a 6000 strong MIQ factory miles from anywhere. What we have is working. What we do if there is an outbreak of whatever the latest strain is, that will work as well. May need more, may take longer, but it will work.

I watch the Prada Cup today, accidentally had chat on the Youtube stream, 1/3 of the international posts were about NZ being covid free, there is a reason why that is.

I'm glad you aren't living elsewhere, you will have exploded by now, the state things are! UK has no MIQ for example. :-)

We will be fine, outbreak or not.

mattwnz

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#2636174 15-Jan-2021 17:48

Handle9:
mattwnz:

They could always turn the air-conditioning off, but that could be worse in summer, as I don't think windows open in some of these hotels.

That would be illegal.

If they solely rely on mechanical ventilation then it would be a no goer, unless they put AC units into each room in the windows. eg those type that you see in the US that hang on the outside of windows, rather than a big central unit. But if they are using motels with windows for natural ventilation, then they may not even have air conditioning. Many houses don't have any form of air conditioning and rely solely on natural ventilation, and people opening their windows.

mattwnz

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#2636182 15-Jan-2021 18:02

tdgeek:

mattwnz:

I am talking about the UK strain, which is already in NZ.

We don't live in a goldfish bowl, what is happening overseas affects us in NZ, to in how we manage these new strains. We don't know if what we have done in the past will work with this new more infectious strain., . This is why in Australia they went straight into lockdown in one of the states, to control it, which they probably wouldn't have done if it wasn't the new strain. One of the last outbreaks of the virus, we didn't go into any lockdown, and it was managed with contact tracing,

But I think they have already said that if the new strain gets out into the community, it will likely mean a lockdown and for longer as it has the potential for explosive growth eg https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-new-uk-strain-would-need-longer-level-4-lockdown-if-outbreak-here-scientist/F3XD75ENIP72K5BD6VADIWMPM4/ So it isn't going to be the same, it is potentially going to be treated far more seriously. Then we have this new Brazil strain which also looks bad.

Unless you close the border to everyone, there is always a risk. I cant see any other way to manage it. As stated above its not feasible to build a 6000 strong MIQ factory miles from anywhere. What we have is working. What we do if there is an outbreak of whatever the latest strain is, that will work as well. May need more, may take longer, but it will work.

I watch the Prada Cup today, accidentally had chat on the Youtube stream, 1/3 of the international posts were about NZ being covid free, there is a reason why that is.

I'm glad you aren't living elsewhere, you will have exploded by now, the state things are! UK has no MIQ for example. :-)

We will be fine, outbreak or not.

I have a lot of family in the UK so unlike many in the NZ, I am seeing the effects daily from it. It is still wall to wall full day coverage on TV over there. The UK are however blocking people from some countries entering UK and they have mandatory isolation requirements for people returning, which has a better chance of compliance if they are all under lockdown.

This is why we can't be complacent, which we are, due to the big drop in scanning etc, and the government not requiring it to be mandatory. We have after all been told that it is not a matter of if, but when, there will be another case found in the community, and if it is a UK strain case, then one of our cities in NZ potentially could be back in lockdown immediately, and that all depends on contact tracing, and their scanning records. But I suspect we will all be told off for not scanning, and only then maybe they will make it mandatory (eg ambulance at the bottom of the cliff). Will be interesting to see how things go from here.

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#2636183 15-Jan-2021 18:12

mattwnz:

If they solely rely on mechanical ventilation then it would be a no goer, unless they put AC units into each room in the windows. eg those type that you see in the US that hang on the outside of windows, rather than a big central unit.

Nope. Still illegal. You can't have a building without adequate fresh air.

Incidentally there would be zero difference between a ducted unit or window units. Hotel room AC units are just recirculate air. Fresh air is introduced from the common areas and enters the room via pressurization.

tdgeek

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#2636184 15-Jan-2021 18:16

mattwnz:

I have a lot of family in the UK so unlike many in the NZ, I am seeing the effects daily from it. It is still wall to wall full day coverage on TV over there. The UK are however blocking people from some countries entering UK and they have mandatory isolation requirements for people returning, which has a better chance of compliance if they are all under lockdown.

This is why we can't be complacent, which we are, due to the big drop in scanning etc, and the government not requiring it to be mandatory. We have after all been told that it is not a matter of if, but when, there will be another case found in the community, and if it is a UK strain case, then one of our cities in NZ potentially could be back in lockdown immediately, and that all depends on contact tracing, and their scanning records. But I suspect we will all be told off for not scanning, and only then maybe they will make it mandatory (eg ambulance at the bottom of the cliff). Will be interesting to see how things go from here.

I watch international news daily, I'm sure many here see the overseas virus situation overseas. Uk has no MIQ, thats huge. Self isolation, thats it.

We will see another case in the community, thats highly likely.

Yes we are complacent thats human nature. Cannot be avoided. If a case got out you can guarantee the scans will go through the roof, and while not ideal, it's ok. Australia has long been regarded here, far far better than us, Covid wise. They are not a big country, they are also an island nation, but from my view we are doing just fine.

I like your posts but you are wanting far too much safety than is practical. We can satisfy that by blocking the border, is that an option? It seems the only one. We cant take in the numbers we do each week, with a number of them infected, and expect 99.999999999% safety. Same why we won't build a 6000 people facility on the Desert Road to use as MIQ.

Ambulance at the bottom of a cliff? If I looked at what countries we should follow all I can see is NZ

I can see mandatory scanning occurring, not many would have an issue with that.

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#2636236 15-Jan-2021 18:59

tdgeek:

I watch international news daily, I'm sure many here see the overseas virus situation overseas. Uk has no MIQ, thats huge. Self isolation, thats it.

MIQ in the UK is not practical. There are something like 3,000 lorry drivers alone crossing from and going to Europe every day. Same for every other country in Europe.

It's so much easier when all your goods are shipped using just plane or ship.

Ge0rge

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#2636265 15-Jan-2021 19:44

Handle9:
mattwnz:

If they solely rely on mechanical ventilation then it would be a no goer, unless they put AC units into each room in the windows. eg those type that you see in the US that hang on the outside of windows, rather than a big central unit.

Nope. Still illegal. You can't have a building without adequate fresh air.

Incidentally there would be zero difference between a ducted unit or window units. Hotel room AC units are just recirculate air. Fresh air is introduced from the common areas and enters the room via pressurization.

You've clearly never stayed in any accommodation owned by Her Majesties Armed Forces...

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#2636267 15-Jan-2021 19:48

New York Times: Pharmacist Accused of Tampering With Vaccine Was Conspiracy Theorist, Police Say

A pharmacist in Wisconsin state who was arrested on charges that he intentionally sabotaged more than 500 doses of the Covid-19 vaccine at a Wisconsin hospital was “an admitted conspiracy theorist” who believed the vaccine could harm people and “change their DNA,” according to the police in Grafton, Wis., where the man was employed.

The police said {he} had twice removed a box of vials of the Moderna vaccine from the refrigerator for periods of 12 hours, rendering them “useless.”

“{He} admitted to doing this intentionally, knowing that it would diminish the effects of the vaccine,” the police said.

The attempt to destroy precious doses of the vaccine came over the holidays as the state worked to administer vaccines quickly to frontline health care workers. As of Saturday, the state had received 159,800 doses of vaccines and had administered 64,657, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Although the Moderna product is sometimes described as a “genetic” vaccine, it does not alter a person’s genes in any way.
...

tdgeek

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#2636272 15-Jan-2021 20:20

SJB:

MIQ in the UK is not practical. There are something like 3,000 lorry drivers alone crossing from and going to Europe every day. Same for every other country in Europe.

It's so much easier when all your goods are shipped using just plane or ship.

What about incoming flights?

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#2636308 15-Jan-2021 22:02

The thing about the Aussie spread being potentially via Air Con seems to just be speculation, rather than an expert assessment of the risk.

Would be very easy for an HVAC engineer to access if the ventilation system allows are to move between rooms. This would be a logical thing to do before considering alternate MIQ locations.

I'm a mechanical engineer, but have never done HVAC design. That said, by understanding is the typically hotel setup has a boiler & chiller feeding hot an cold water loops. Each room has an individual air handler, typically concealed, which is essentially a fan with a radiator, that can be fed by either the hot or cold water loop depending on the season and setting selected by the occupant. That just re-circulates air in the room. Typically such air handlers have the option to connect a fresh air feed. Typically hotel bathrooms have an always on air extract.

The fresh air injection and extract would likely be done in bulk (many rooms sharing the same ducts), but pressures are likely sufficient to avoid any backflow. - if this was borderline, it is possible a fan could be swapped or VSD settings could be changed.

Should note the hotel in the back drop of a news article on this had people standing from multiple rooms standing on tightly spaced balconies, not really ideal for people in isolation.

Handle9

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#2636327 16-Jan-2021 06:44

They aren't air handlers in the rooms, they are fan coil units, typically full recirc chilled water/hydronics with electric heat or 3 pipe dx. Air handlers are used for a different application.

Hotels don't have fresh air direct into the rooms, they introduce tempered fresh air into the common areas and pressurization pushes this into the rooms via negative pressure from the toilet extract system.