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10326 posts

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  #2435672 10-Mar-2020 13:40
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neb:

 

Silly. You catch veganism from chemtrails. Autism is from... not sure, but Hillary Clinton is involved.

 

I wonder if vegans will use alcohol-based hand sanitiser?  Most of the ethanol produced and sold in NZ is made from fermentation of milk whey.  The isopropanol comes out of a plant - a chemical plant - but hopefully that's vegan enough.


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  #2435674 10-Mar-2020 13:44
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freitasm:

 

Israel moving to quarantine everyone entering the country.

 

 

IMO this is common sense now, with the way this is now playing out. Infact the WHO have said that countries governments and people are in total control over whether this gets a foot hold and spreads in a particular country or not.They don't appear happy with the way some countries are handling this, where it has gotten out of control. 
The problem is that there doesn't appear to be any universal standard countries should follow. We don't want to be another China or Italy, where the country is locked down, as that would be far worse than just quarantining people coming into the country and probably a far bigger cost IMO. We quarantine pets entering the country, to protect our livestock/economy. W ealso use to quarantine people to prevent this sort of thing. Protecting our people should be at the top of the list, but maybe this conflicts with our tourism economy? But we won't have a tourist economy for a long time if this gets a foothold in NZ, because tourists from countries like China won't likely want to visit, and NZers may also face travel restrictions from other countries. A bit of short term pain for long term gain IMO is common sense with the way this is now going. It will also reassure the public that everything is being done to protect them from this getting into NZ.

 

I also can't believe that the government are still mulling over whether to require all people from Italy to self isolate or not, or just people from the north. Isn't it common sense that it should be all, when the entire country is now in lockdown?


 
 
 
 


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  #2435681 10-Mar-2020 13:55
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Lockdown or entry bans are a heavy measure. Do we want inconvenience for weeks, or allow the virus to establish and be an on going issue everywhere, where small outbreaks occur? I choose short term pain over bigger long term pain. 

 

Not advocating that here yet though, lets see if it potters away quietly here and there or not


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  #2435686 10-Mar-2020 14:11
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tdgeek:

 

Lockdown or entry bans are a heavy measure. Do we want inconvenience for weeks, or allow the virus to establish and be an on going issue everywhere, where small outbreaks occur? I choose short term pain over bigger long term pain. 

 

 

 

 

If it gets a foothold, the implications are potentially far worse than just inconvenience. People are already restricting their travel. People won't want to travel to a country where it has got a foothold anyway. Already travel numbers are down significantly, and the Qantas CEO has taken a 100% pay cut. The difference will be that by that time it gets a foothold in NZ, it will likely cause our health system to be totally overloaded, and NZers to have died from it. Whereas if we do it now, we are in a far better position to deal with any  outbreaks from currently infected people, or undetected cases in NZ that maybe silently spreading due to the long incubation period. If we leave it longer, then the government could come out and say that quarantining all visitors won't make any difference, because it is already too far advanced in NZ.  In the case of Italy, they have no choice, because of the strain it has put on their health system. Also based on the numbers, a large number of people appear to have died over there, compared to the number of cases, and many of those case wouldn't have yet recovered from it.

 

It seems that quite a few countries have just let it potter along for  while with a few isolated cases, and clusters, but then then there have been exponential spikes. I am not sure the best way to deal with it, but some countries are taking more proactive steps than others. If there was a recommended standard approach that countries should be following from the WHO, that would help a lot. NZ has the advantage that we can see what has occurred in other countries, and what has worked, and hasn't worked, due to being a few weeks behind.


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  #2435694 10-Mar-2020 14:21
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Here's a basic question: "Can you lose your US job if you're quarantined?"

For lawyers and insurers
  • isolation applies when you are sick

  • quarantine applies you could be sick.

  • ordered by a state to self-quarantine (only occurs at the state level. It has never been applied at the federal level)
Making this legal US minefield more complicated, just like the US tax code, it gets complicated because every state has their own laws. Of course the virus doesn't care if you were infected in Alabama or New York.

Back to quarantined or isolated. The answer is if you quarantined (could be sick, and not ordered by the state) you're screwed. If you're isolated (are sick or ordered by the state), you may be screwed.

To prove you should keep you job, you'll need to be tested. Only a few sparse states are requiring insurance companies to subsidize testing. Even if you're lucky enough to be in the right state, there are exemptions for some insurance companies. It's been reported that unsubsidized, the test has reached $5,000.

OK. Let's say you somehow got the right health insurance and you live in the right place, and can afford a few hundred dollars to get tested. There's a very vague language which allows a company to fire you if your job requires your presence at a workplace. There's a lot of wiggle room here.

Let's say you were unfairly terminated, and you have enough money to afford filing a lawsuit under either the the Family and Medical Leave Act of 1993 (FMLA) or the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 (ADA).

If you're poor, even if you're in the right, you're likely screwed. A large company like Walmart could have a big pay off, so you may be able to find a lawyer willing to do a no-win-no-fee lawsuit, but Walmart will be fighting you with their team of highly paid lawyers.

If you're fighting a small company, you may get a payoff, probably less than $10,000, but again expect it to take years. It's likely you'll be paying the lawyer fee. Unless the company settles quickly, you'll likely to walk away with a fraction of that, assuming you win.

I wouldn't expect the Republicans or the President to provide any leadership, and override state laws, and order self-quarantines nationwide (you could be sick).

Summary: virus doesn't care where you live, and it sucks to be a US worker.

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  #2435698 10-Mar-2020 14:26
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kingdragonfly: Here's a basic question: "Can you lose your US job if you're quarantined?"

For lawyers and insurers

 

  • isolation applies when you are sick

  • quarantine applies you could be sick.

  • ordered by a state to self-quarantine (only occurs at the state level. It has never been applied at the federal level)

Making this legal US minefield more complicated, just like the US tax code, it gets complicated because every state has their own laws. Of course the virus doesn't care if you were infected in Alabama or New York.

Back to quarantined or isolated. The answer is if you quarantined (could be sick, and not ordered by the state) you're screwed. If you're isolated (are sick or ordered by the state), you may be screwed.

To prove you should keep you job, you'll need to be tested. Only a few sparse states are requiring insurance companies to subsidize testing. Even if you're lucky enough to be in the right state, there are exemptions for some insurance companies. It's been reported that unsubsidized, the test has reached $5,000.

OK. Let's say you somehow got the right health insurance and you live in the right place, and can afford a few hundred dollars to get tested. There's a very vague language which allows a company to fire you if your job requires your presence at a workplace. There's a lot of wiggle room here.

Let's say you were unfairly terminated, and you have enough money to afford filing a lawsuit under either the the Family and Medical Leave Act of 1993 (FMLA) and the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 (ADA).

If you're poor, even if you're in the right, you're likely screwed. A large company like Walmart could have a big pay off, so you may be able to find a lawyer willing to do a no-win-no-fee lawsuit, but Walmart will be fighting you with their team of highly paid lawyers.

If you're fighting a small company, you may get a payoff, probably less than $10,000, but again expect it to take years. It's likely you'll be paying the lawyer fee. Unless the company settles quickly, you'll likely to walk away with a fraction of that, assuming you win.

I wouldn't expect the Republicans or the President to provide any leadership, and override state laws, and order self-quarantines nationwide (you could be sick).

Summary: virus doesn't care where you live, and it sucks to be a US worker.

 

Let's Keep America Great (again)





Handsome Dan Has Spoken.
Handsome Dan is currently WFH.
Handsome Dan is perplexed...and a little stir crazy.
Handsome Dan is transitioning back to normal life one day a week..
Handsome Dan is trying not to sweat the small stuff..and sometimes succeeds


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  #2435703 10-Mar-2020 14:30
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Be it ever so humble there is no place like home. Thankful to live in Aotearoa where people still matter and caring is still a thing.





Mike
Change Management Consultant
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

He waka eke noa


 
 
 
 


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  #2435708 10-Mar-2020 14:34
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MikeB4:

 

 Thankful to live in Aotearoa where people still matter and caring is still a thing.

 

 

Until the breakdown of society caused by mass toilet paper shortages and COVID-19 induced hysteria...





Handsome Dan Has Spoken.
Handsome Dan is currently WFH.
Handsome Dan is perplexed...and a little stir crazy.
Handsome Dan is transitioning back to normal life one day a week..
Handsome Dan is trying not to sweat the small stuff..and sometimes succeeds


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  #2435709 10-Mar-2020 14:35
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mattwnz:

 

tdgeek:

 

Lockdown or entry bans are a heavy measure. Do we want inconvenience for weeks, or allow the virus to establish and be an on going issue everywhere, where small outbreaks occur? I choose short term pain over bigger long term pain. 

 

 

 

 

If it gets a foothold, the implications are potentially far worse than just inconvenience. People are already restricting their travel. People won't want to travel to a country where it has got a foothold anyway. Already travel numbers are down significantly, and the Qantas CEO has taken a 100% pay cut. The difference will be that by that time it gets a foothold in NZ, it will likely cause our health system to be totally overloaded, and NZers to have died from it. Whereas if we do it now, we are in a far better position to deal with any  outbreaks from currently infected people, or undetected cases in NZ that maybe silently spreading due to the long incubation period. If we leave it longer, then the government could come out and say that quarantining all visitors won't make any difference, because it is already too far advanced in NZ.  In the case of Italy, they have no choice, because of the strain it has put on their health system. Also based on the numbers, a large number of people appear to have died over there, compared to the number of cases, and many of those case wouldn't have yet recovered from it.

 

It seems that quite a few countries have just let it potter along for  while with a few isolated cases, and clusters, but then then there have been exponential spikes. I am not sure the best way to deal with it, but some countries are taking more proactive steps than others. If there was a recommended standard approach that countries should be following from the WHO, that would help a lot. NZ has the advantage that we can see what has occurred in other countries, and what has worked, and hasn't worked, due to being a few weeks behind.

 

 

I agree. Here, right now, its probably lucky if all we have is these 5. I heard about a probable today though. 9000 are self islaoting, unsure how many of those are real threats or saferty first. Here, mass isolation or ban entry would  still hurt tourism, so if we get more do we go all out, and shut it down soon, or wait and wait then its far too spread? Italy, you can go to work, and I assume supermarket, thats doable here.  The $64000 question is could it spread badly here or not? But the public wont like any inconvenience unless its obvious its out of control. How many of us right now would suffer oif we had to stay home, no school, go to work under struct rules then go home, order groceries online. Would that be too hard for a month? In that month, sufferers get better or go to hospital, not too many. Virus would struggle to spread, probbaly become extinct here under a full travel ban, or a travel ban where you must stay home and go nowhere for the month. That would probably solve the issue in NZ. Rather then drag everyone down for months and months. Then there are the businesses here.


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  #2435710 10-Mar-2020 14:37
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There's always the power of prayer.

If you're poor or sick, it's obviously it's because you've sinned, and deserve retribution because of you lack of tithing.

See Prosperity gospel

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  #2435714 10-Mar-2020 14:43
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kingdragonfly: There's always the power of prayer.

If you're poor or sick, it's obviously it's because you've sinned, and deserve retribution because of you lack of tithing.

See Prosperity gospel

 

For those who are religious prayer may help and if it boosts their morale and gives them strength to keep going then no harm done. I have seen this in action during my time as a volunteer community worker. The harm is done by false evangelists bent on fleecing the vulnerable.

 

For those who have a faith, may your God be with you.  





Mike
Change Management Consultant
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

He waka eke noa


4647 posts

Uber Geek


  #2435721 10-Mar-2020 14:52
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kingdragonfly: There's always the power of prayer.

If you're poor or sick, it's obviously it's because you've sinned, and deserve retribution because of you lack of tithing.

See Prosperity gospel

 

Not so sure about that.... The closure of the healing baths at Lourdes shows a distinct lack of faith by the church....

 

https://cruxnow.com/church-in-europe/2020/03/lourdes-shrine-closes-healing-pools-as-precaution-against-coronavirus/

 

 

 

On the plus side, Korea appear on track to have significant containment in less than a month..

 

https://en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20200310003000320?section=science/medicine


Devastation by stupidity
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  #2435723 10-Mar-2020 14:55
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Faith is fine, those who exploit it are not.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


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  #2435729 10-Mar-2020 15:05
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The New York Times - Coronavirus Live Updates

 

breaking ...

 

 

Italy Halts Most Travel

 

Italy says it’s halting most travel and public gatherings to try to restrain the outbreak.

 

The Italian government on Monday night extended restrictions on personal movement and public events to the entire country, in a desperate effort to stem the coronavirus outbreak - an extraordinary set of measures in a modern democracy that values individual freedoms.

 

Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte announced in a prime-time news conference that public gatherings were banned and people would be allowed to travel only for work or for emergencies.

 

 

and ...

 

BBC News - Italy extends emergency measures nationwide

 


Italy has extended its emergency coronavirus measures, which include travel restrictions and a ban on public gatherings, to the entire country.

 

On Monday, Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte ordered people to stay home and seek permission for essential travel.

 

He said the measures were designed to protect the most vulnerable. "There is no more time," he said in a TV address.

 

Italy's coronavirus death toll jumped from 366 to 463 on Monday. It is the worst-hit country after China.

 

Cases of the virus have been confirmed in all 20 Italian regions. ...

 





Sideface


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  #2435742 10-Mar-2020 15:33
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Sideface:

 

breaking ...

 

Italy Halts Most Travel

 

 

That news went through the thread about 6 pages ago, but thanks again.... :)


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