2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2659153 18-Feb-2021 19:31

mattwnz:

'Large scale' problem.

But as we know, it doesn't take long for it to become a large scale problem, as occurred in the previous Auckland outbreak.

I wonder what numbers it can accurately detect down to. Especially as there are cases going into the sewage , eg people infected in isolation hotels. So if they aren't detecting anything, then do these hotels nots connect to the sewage system? IMO we should never be using these numbers for any form of proof that there are no cases in the community. An indicator yes, but not proof. Some people use septic tanks etc too.

I agree, but did they say its a form of proof?

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#2659295 18-Feb-2021 23:28

live virus study

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/17/ive-accepted-the-risk-volunteering-to-be-exposed-to-covid-in-new-trials

"At London’s Royal Free hospital, he will be infected with the virus through a nasal spray or dropper, and then be in bio containment for about 17 days to ensure he does not infect others."

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#2659298 19-Feb-2021 00:29

tdgeek:

mattwnz:

'Large scale' problem.

But as we know, it doesn't take long for it to become a large scale problem, as occurred in the previous Auckland outbreak.

I wonder what numbers it can accurately detect down to. Especially as there are cases going into the sewage , eg people infected in isolation hotels. So if they aren't detecting anything, then do these hotels nots connect to the sewage system? IMO we should never be using these numbers for any form of proof that there are no cases in the community. An indicator yes, but not proof. Some people use septic tanks etc too.

I agree, but did they say its a form of proof?

They were using it yesterday as one of the justifications of coming out of level 3 to level 2. When IMO it's main benefit is a detection method , especially when testing numbers have dropped, which they always do until new community cases are detected. So it is a way to not reply solely on people being tested, to detect the virus in the community.

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#2659310 19-Feb-2021 07:23

More tabloid journalism

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300233323/covid19-the-edge-cases-and-when-transmission-gets-weird

We are getting edge cases, because of the regime we have, it still leaks out? Well, other countries cannot measure "edge" cases as they are over run. Two, we don't operate a Covid regime that's based on 100% containment, so off course it wont be 100% secure. Someone here quoted border leaks at 10 or 12 recently. Of over 100,000 returnees. We aren't locking down every other week like a neighbour appears to be.

Fake news, but it got clicks

In other news, we are keeping secret the storage and transport of the vaccines. A veil of secrecy no less. I didn't think expected security measures would make front page news.

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#2659311 19-Feb-2021 07:33

Weirdness happens when covid finds a way

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#2659312 19-Feb-2021 07:35

Batman:

Weirdness happens when covid finds a way

I'm still looking for whats weird. Nothing that I can see, clickbait

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#2659314 19-Feb-2021 07:40

Did you read the article?

Its an explainer not a news story, and I think a good one to help calm people who are worried about why we can't find the source of these outbreaks.

tdgeek:

More tabloid journalism

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300233323/covid19-the-edge-cases-and-when-transmission-gets-weird

We are getting edge cases, because of the regime we have, it still leaks out? Well, other countries cannot measure "edge" cases as they are over run.

This is exactly what the article says and provides reasons why in a level headed manner.

Two, we don't operate a Covid regime that's based on 100% containment, so off course it wont be 100% secure. Someone here quoted border leaks at 10 or 12 recently. Of over 100,000 returnees. We aren't locking down every other week like a neighbour appears to be.

The article doesn't go into whether the border is 100% secure or not, or why - just explains that it is a likely source

Fake news, but it got clicks

Nothing fake in the article I can see, happy to be proved wrong though

Clint

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#2659316 19-Feb-2021 07:44

tdgeek:

Batman:

Weirdness happens when covid finds a way

I'm still looking for whats weird. Nothing that I can see, clickbait

While it may not be "weird" to you - to a lot of people ( multiple discussions with people from multiple backgrounds) it is. They feel we should be able to see a start point for an outbreak, and/or nothing should get through the border. This is a good, well written summary of why we see these types of cases, and other countries miss them, or don't report on them

It is definitely not click bait or fake news

Clint

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#2659317 19-Feb-2021 07:47

Its sensationalising an expected situation into a clickbait news story. Given the number of people involved, from air crew to the security guard outside MIQ and all those in between, and that not everyone test when they feel crook and not everyone acts correctly, and not everyone scans, you expect cases where you cannot find the source. Its hardly surprising or newsworthy. Its always been the case.

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#2659318 19-Feb-2021 07:49

clinty:

While it may not be "weird" to you - to a lot of people ( multiple discussions with people from multiple backgrounds) it is. They feel we should be able to see a start point for an outbreak, and/or nothing should get through the border. This is a good, well written summary of why we see these types of cases, and other countries miss them, or don't report on them

It is definitely not click bait or fake news

Clint

In your opinion.

What I bolded is not reality, it never was.

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#2659319 19-Feb-2021 07:57

morning read from NZ herald, nothing game changing, vaccines starting

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-no-stone-unturned-in-hunt-for-source-of-community-outbreak/R5B5B7VNUPS2TP6ZQ6APUN564E/

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#2659321 19-Feb-2021 08:00

tdgeek:

clinty:

While it may not be "weird" to you - to a lot of people ( multiple discussions with people from multiple backgrounds) it is. They feel we should be able to see a start point for an outbreak, and/or nothing should get through the border. This is a good, well written summary of why we see these types of cases, and other countries miss them, or don't report on them

It is definitely not click bait or fake news

Clint

In your opinion.

What I bolded is not reality, it never was.

I never said it was. I said other people I have spoken to felt that's how it should be - and this article helps explain to them why it isn't - with facts and good writing. Unfortunately not everyone is as smart, good looking and in possession of the reasoning skills that the Geekzone community has, so may need some help with why these "weird" case keep popping up.

Clint

Edit:

For reference here is the definition I use of "click bait"

Definition of clickbait
: something (such as a headline) designed to make readers want to click on a hyperlink especially when the link leads to content of dubious value or interest

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/clickbait

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#2659329 19-Feb-2021 08:12

clinty:

I never said it was. I said other people I have spoken to felt that's how it should be - and this article helps explain to them why it isn't - with facts and good writing. Unfortunately not everyone is as smart, good looking and in possession of the reasoning skills that the Geekzone community has, so may need some help with why these "weird" case keep popping up.

Clint

Given the extensive media coverage in the last year and the daily briefings, I'm surprised that anyone would feel that we can trace the cause of every case and none should escape.

Take this short section

New Zealand’s Covid-19 regime has made person-to-person transmission unlikely. People arrive in the country and are isolated in MIQ facilities, border workers are regularly tested, there are safeguards in place.

Yet, the virus is still leaking out.

The other forms of transmission appear to be causing the “edge” cases we’re seeing, something Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has been keen to point out.

These forms of transmission are, of course, likely still happening around the world. But in countries where regular or airborne transmission is so prevalent they don’t have time to look, and have so many cases it really doesn’t matter.

“What we are seeing [here in New Zealand] is the virus spreading through human error, or through holes in our system, or through these very rare events,’’ says Microbiologist Siouxsie Wiles.

Yet the virus still leaks out?. They just said its unlikely, so by definition it can happen. These cases happening everywhere, its not a NZ scenario. The last sentence explains it all, it can happen and it does as Dr Ashley has been saying over and over and over. The various transmission examples mentioned have been repeated over and over here, in the media and in the daily briefings, there is no news here, its regurgitated what we have heard many time in the last year, that's my point, there is nothing new to read. Anyone who finds anything new here must have been living under a rock. Sure, I dont expect everyone to read GZ every day or read every word of every media article, but we have been living and breathing all of these details regularly for a year.

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#2659334 19-Feb-2021 08:17

clinty:

For reference here is the definition I use of "click bait"

Definition of clickbait
: something (such as a headline) designed to make readers want to click on a hyperlink especially when the link leads to content of dubious value or interest

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/clickbait

Wiki says

Clickbait is a text or a thumbnail link that is designed to attract attention and to entice users to follow that link and read, view, or listen to the linked piece of online content, with a defining characteristic of being deceptive, typically sensationalized or misleading.

In this article its not deceptive or misleading but its sensationalised. Note that its about enticing, to thereby be deceptive,or sensationalized or misleading

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#2659336 19-Feb-2021 08:20

In any case if you feel it adds value then we disagree, thats all.

Its a bit like the security for the vaccines. Its about the security for the vaccines, which for obvious reasons is important, and overseas there have been examples of theft or attempted theft, destruction. But a "veil of secrecy" ???? Same thing, sensationalise a perfectly rational small article of news

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