2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

Forums › Health and fitness › 2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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1003 posts

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#2681455 27-Mar-2021 16:27

sbiddle:

I don't see anything wrong with that viewpoint, nor people seeking out the vaccine.

I think the approach by the govt this week to grant exceptions for vaccines to some people heading overseas is logical, but the strict criteria is just stupid. IMHO every single person leaving NZ who will be coming back to NZ within the next few months (with the exception for Australia since we're going to have a bubble) should be vaccinated as a priority before leaving NZ. The facts aren't hard to grasp - MIQ is the weakest link, and we need to be doing everything we can to prevent Covid entering the MIQ system. Every person in that system who is vaccinated reduces the risk.

I know a couple of people heading overseas in the next few months who are slightly worried at present about how they'll be vaccinated. They'd happily pay $$ for a private vaccination before going.

Except that the only vaccine available in the country is controlled and distributed by the government. This is also nothing like the flu vaccine where it wasn't a free shot. Workplaces could and did bring in vaccinators at a cost. Additionally, if you were over 65 the flu jab was free but under that you had to pay for it.

Don't disagree that anyone with a sensible reason for heading overseas should be able to get priority - those numbers are likely to be small in the great scheme of things (I don't include going on a holiday as reasonable).

But just wanting to pay to get it now with no other valid reason just doesn't sit right with me when we still have to roll it out to vulnerable groups.

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sbiddle

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#2681506 27-Mar-2021 17:06

cshwone:

sbiddle:

I don't see anything wrong with that viewpoint, nor people seeking out the vaccine.

I think the approach by the govt this week to grant exceptions for vaccines to some people heading overseas is logical, but the strict criteria is just stupid. IMHO every single person leaving NZ who will be coming back to NZ within the next few months (with the exception for Australia since we're going to have a bubble) should be vaccinated as a priority before leaving NZ. The facts aren't hard to grasp - MIQ is the weakest link, and we need to be doing everything we can to prevent Covid entering the MIQ system. Every person in that system who is vaccinated reduces the risk.

I know a couple of people heading overseas in the next few months who are slightly worried at present about how they'll be vaccinated. They'd happily pay $$ for a private vaccination before going.

Except that the only vaccine available in the country is controlled and distributed by the government. This is also nothing like the flu vaccine where it wasn't a free shot. Workplaces could and did bring in vaccinators at a cost. Additionally, if you were over 65 the flu jab was free but under that you had to pay for it.

Don't disagree that anyone with a sensible reason for heading overseas should be able to get priority - those numbers are likely to be small in the great scheme of things (I don't include going on a holiday as reasonable).

But just wanting to pay to get it now with no other valid reason just doesn't sit right with me when we still have to roll it out to vulnerable groups.

Sure - but the influenza immunisation program is still controlled by the MoH who organise and distribute the vaccine. The MoH just don't fund the actual vaccine or the person to give the vaccine unless you fall into a high risk category.

Somebody can probably confirm it, but it's my understanding that a private clinic for example can't import influenza vaccines and give them to people, it has to come through the official MoH supply chain.

I don't see any issue with somebody heading overseas for a "holiday" being excluded from a priority rollout. I see the reason for the trip being irrelevant. If somebody can manage to organise flights in and out of NZ, organise MIQ space (which in itself is a massive effort) which is going to cost them $5,200 now, why should they not be vaccinated before they go? The numbers of people would be very small.

richms

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#2681507 27-Mar-2021 17:07

cshwone:

richms:

Is there any other alternate source to get the vaccine other than this planned MOH rollout of it? Like for flu how workplaces can book it in to get someone in to give the shots for money. I would rather pay someone if it means I can get it now rather than have to wait for a govt provided one.

Really?

Yes, really. Do you have an issue with wanting to purchase something to give me protection against a potentially deadly disease?

Richard rich.ms

cshwone

1003 posts

Uber Geek

#2681511 27-Mar-2021 17:16

richms:

Yes, really. Do you have an issue with wanting to purchase something to give me protection against a potentially deadly disease?

Yes I do when it is well known that the roll out of the vaccine has been decided in priority groups by the government, and controlled by that government, and you want to know how you can throw cash at it to short circuit the process which would be at the expense of someone more vulnerable.

It strikes me as a very selfish attitude.

wellygary

7381 posts

Uber Geek

#2681522 27-Mar-2021 17:43

richms:

Is there any other alternate source to get the vaccine other than this planned MOH rollout of it?

Like for flu how workplaces can book it in to get someone in to give the shots for money. I would rather pay someone if it means I can get it now rather than have to wait for a govt provided one.

Workplace flu shot come from the same MoH pool of vaccines in the general rollout, all that happens in a GP Practice requests the vaccine in order to inoculation X people ..in regard to Flu, once the general population is receiving it the MoH are agnostic when it gets to people... I.e you can often go and get it as a "walkup" at a chemist, but you will pay more than many GP Practices..

I imagine once the general public begins it could well be possible for GP clinics to arrange "early" vaccinations for paying work places

BUT... We are no where near that point yet.... you can't jump the queue as to get in the queue you need to meet certain criteria... there is no general availability.... (Unless you want to order some from Pfizer,)

Fred99

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#2681565 27-Mar-2021 18:01

sbiddle:

Somebody can probably confirm it, but it's my understanding that a private clinic for example can't import influenza vaccines and give them to people, it has to come through the official MoH supply chain.

Yes - a private clinic can't offer that as a service for Covid vaccine - just maybe they could for flu, but because for the most at risk it's free, it's free at many workplaces, $25 or whatever at a chemist or drop in at a GP, it's not worth it.

However, you can import (unapproved in NZ) medications (except controlled drugs) for personal use, but not to offer to the public. You'll need a prescription, possibly an explanatory note from a Dr as to the reason why, and it'll be reviewed by medsafe.

I can't think of a reason why they should stop a vaccine at the border. But then again, it probably depends on who reviews it...

It's not "routine" but reasonably common when novel treatments are approved overseas (ie by the FDA - but awaiting NZ approval) for this to happen.

Fred99

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Uber Geek

#2681567 27-Mar-2021 18:24

richms:

Yes, really. Do you have an issue with wanting to purchase something to give me protection against a potentially deadly disease?

Just to jump the queue?

I do - on two grounds:

First there's a global shortage of vaccine which means somebody at much higher risk, thus with a much more immediate need than you could die. Second - due to the global management disaster - with lack of cooperation, putting profit before human life, and stupid populist politicians, we've got a disastrous global situation where there are going to be an ongoing millions of people carrying the disease in Africa, in South America - a massive reservoir of infection that will further mutate to evade the vaccines we've got, and eventually come back to punish us for taking selfish personal / nationalistic actions. We're our own worst enemy because of greed.

alexx

856 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2681568 27-Mar-2021 18:25

richms:

Is there any other alternate source to get the vaccine other than this planned MOH rollout of it? Like for flu how workplaces can book it in to get someone in to give the shots for money. I would rather pay someone if it means I can get it now rather than have to wait for a govt provided one.

It appears that there already might be an the option of going to a private clinic in the UAE.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/michelerobson/2021/01/17/vaccine-vaccationsgetting-a-private-covid-shot-abroad/?sh=75ddd48076be

#include <standard.disclaimer>

sbiddle

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#2681569 27-Mar-2021 18:26

cshwone:

richms:

Yes, really. Do you have an issue with wanting to purchase something to give me protection against a potentially deadly disease?

Yes I do when it is well known that the roll out of the vaccine has been decided in priority groups by the government, and controlled by that government, and you want to know how you can throw cash at it to short circuit the process which would be at the expense of someone more vulnerable.

It strikes me as a very selfish attitude.

Selfish? Maybe. But to argue it's an the expense of somebody more vulnerable is a big statement.

We're vaccinating the vulnerable because they're most at risk from harm if they catch Covid, but the problem is you can very easily argue to many different approaches when it comes to vaccination priorities.

Many of the people who fall into high risk categories (lets use the scenario of elderly people) are only at risk is the virus is introduced into the place where they live, and here I'll use the example of a rest home. You could easily argue that family members of people in a rest home are a priority group as these are the people who catch public transport, visit supermarkets, and spend time in society every day. Maybe the priority is just as important and we should be vaccinating those people first to stop them from being infected and introducing the virus into rest homes?

Should we be vaccinating all of our Police as a priority? We are, but why? How is their risk to society as a whole any different from say a supermarket worker or a bus driver? Both come into contact with large numbers of people each day and could easily come into people who are infected and spread it to other people. Just because we have a table of priority groups doesn't necessarily mean that list is correct, and it really depends exactly what the real criteria is for establishing that list.

Based on the most recent case in Brisbane of CT you could almost argue that just randomly vaccinating people in society will mathematically reduce the risk of CT spread because one of those people could be exposed.

Fred99

13684 posts

Uber Geek

#2681570 27-Mar-2021 18:37

sbiddle:

cshwone:

It strikes me as a very selfish attitude.

Selfish? Maybe. But to argue it's an the expense of somebody more vulnerable is a big statement.

Well it's a 100% correct statement, and there's no "maybe" about it being selfish.

Fred99

13684 posts

Uber Geek

#2681572 27-Mar-2021 18:40

sbiddle:

Based on the most recent case in Brisbane of CT you could almost argue that just randomly vaccinating people in society will mathematically reduce the risk of CT spread because one of those people could be exposed.

You could "almost" argue that doing that might reincarnate unicorns.

I think you should think harder before posting comments like that.

Dratsab

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#2681573 27-Mar-2021 18:40

sbiddle: Should we be vaccinating all of our Police as a priority? We are, but why? How is their risk to society as a whole any different from say a supermarket worker or a bus driver?

Only police who work at borders and quarantine facilities are being vaccinated at present.

cshwone

1003 posts

Uber Geek

#2681575 27-Mar-2021 19:08

sbiddle:

Selfish? Maybe. But to argue it's an the expense of somebody more vulnerable is a big statement.

What planet are you on? At the moment we are just rolling out to border workers and their families with a slight uptick in front-line health workers. Woefully slow really.

And along comes Richms wondering how he can buy his way to a vaccine.

There are a finite amount of vaccine doses in NZ at any one time; geared towards target vulnerable groups, be they Counties DHB, over 65 whatever, but if Richms buys his way to a couple of doses there is someone going without who needs it more from a risk perspective.

richms

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#2681576 27-Mar-2021 19:16

Noone misses out if they were bought in by someone else to the country. And since when is being more concerned about myself than other people such a bad thing?

Richard rich.ms

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#2681578 27-Mar-2021 19:27

cshwone:

sbiddle:

Selfish? Maybe. But to argue it's an the expense of somebody more vulnerable is a big statement.

What planet are you on? At the moment we are just rolling out to border workers and their families with a slight uptick in front-line health workers. Woefully slow really.

And along comes Richms wondering how he can buy his way to a vaccine.

There are a finite amount of vaccine doses in NZ at any one time; geared towards target vulnerable groups, be they Counties DHB, over 65 whatever, but if Richms buys his way to a couple of doses there is someone going without who needs it more from a risk perspective.

You seem to have totally missed the whole point being made here.

The whole point of a hypothetical private vaccine is NOT to take vaccines away from current high risk people who are being vaccinated. The whole point would be to provide a parallel supply for those willing to pay. What exactly is wrong with this?

Should we just ban private healthcare and private hospitals that already allow people to have choice?

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