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Scott3
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  #2713307 26-May-2021 15:37
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sbiddle:

 

Australia are facing truly massive problems with their rollout, with the biggest issue right now being that quite simply nobody over 50 wants to be vaccinated due to the hugely successful campaign by their mainstream media which has convinced these people the vaccine is useless, and that they'll all get blood clots and die if they get it.

 

The result is that there are vaccination centres with nobody at them as the over 50's are all hanging out in hope that they'll be able to get the Pfizer vaccine at some point.

 

They're going to need every person in Australia capable of giving vaccines to be on board later in the year if they still want to roll out the Pfizer vaccine in a reasonable time frame once they start receiving large quantities of it.

 

IMHO GP's surgeries are not the ideal place to be used for mass vaccinations. It's clear it would be convenient for some people to get a jab while visiting for a regular appointment, but primary care locations such as doctors surgeries should kept for primary care. It makes a lot more sense to use dedicated pop up facilities which can be dedicated to this and typically have a lot more space  to handle the full end to end process. The other aspect is that you run the very real risk of people simply booking out appointments for weeks ahead solely to get a jab because this may well exist as a loophole to get early access to the vaccine before people are called up, meaning others seeking appointments lose out.

 

I was very impressed at how well the centre in Wellington where I got my jab was set up. There was plenty of space for staff and vaccinators to work, and space for dedicated waiting areas before the jab, and importantly for waiting afterwards. I just can't see most pharmacies and GP surgeries being able to offer the same experience.

 

 

NZ got extremely luck with regards to placing out 2nd pfizer order before the whole very rare blood clot stuff struck astrazenica.

 

Even without that, it is clear that Pfizer was the better (higher trial effancy) vaccine, so there would have been sections of society that waned to hold out for pfizer here. Having only one brand means it is a simple yes / no decision, aided by the brand we have picked being one of the best there is.

 

 

 

Regarding GP's and Pharmacies, they run a mass vaccination campaign every year with the annual influenza vaccines. Along with workplace vaccination, 1.2m+ jabs have been delivered every year since 2015, mostly in a 2 month period.

 

Experience may not be as good as a dedicated center (i.e. GP waiting rooms would typically be shared by both those waiting for an injection, and those in their post vaccination observation period), but they are adequate to get the job done with flu vaccines year after year. The issues with crowding out other appointments isn't new. The GP clinic I am familiar essentially dedicates a nurse or two to the flu vaccination appointments, leaving remaining staff free for general business, and also did some overtime evening / weekend clinics to handle the initial rush.

 

It is they quite probable that they will do the bulk of the volume when our covid-19 vaccination program kicks into high gear.

 

In short, we will need all the resources we can get to have this rolled out by the end of the year, so might as well make use of this existing, willing & experienced resource. 

 

Obviously the volume of covid-19 doses are well in excess of flu vaccination doses, so there is space for both the pop up centers and the GP's / pharmacies to work together to get the doses distributed.

 

Having GP clinics involved will be fairly critical to capture those with more complex medical needs (i.e. need interactions of various conditions / medication checked with the covid-19 vaccination), and those that are more hesitant, and want to talk through the pro's / cons with their trusted doctor. Also they are pretty good at talking people visiting for other reason's to get the vaccination seen as they are there already.

 

 

 

 


 
 
 

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wellygary
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  #2713316 26-May-2021 16:20
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Scott3:

 

NZ got extremely luck with regards to placing out 2nd pfizer order before the whole very rare blood clot stuff struck astrazenica.

 

Even without that, it is clear that Pfizer was the better (higher trial effancy) vaccine, so there would have been sections of society that waned to hold out for pfizer here. Having only one brand means it is a simple yes / no decision, aided by the brand we have picked being one of the best there is.

 

 

One interest comment that Hipkins made in today's presser that the Media missed was he specifically said that "Pfizer will be delivering us all of the vaccines needed to complete our rollout between July and SEPTEMBER"

 

Now, the initial statement when they signed up for the additional  8.5 million doses, was stated as " during the second half of the year,” https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/govt-purchases-enough-pfizer-vaccines-whole-country

 

Now, when combined with the group 4 "Late July" update today, I think the govt and Pfizer have done a deal that sees the initial big drops pushed back a few weeks, but in return the supply is all onshore by September, giving total supply assurity to complete the rollout, rather than having an earlier start but a longer delivery window.

 

 

 

Mind you we are only talking a few million doses, and to be honest in terms of Pfizer's expected production its a rounding error, 

 

Although this could also be T/T politics, as Australia's "additional 20 million doses will be available in quarter four of this year."
https://www.pm.gov.au/media/press-conference-australian-parliament-house-act-09april21

 

 


sbiddle
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  #2713320 26-May-2021 16:32
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wellygary:

 

Scott3:

 

NZ got extremely luck with regards to placing out 2nd pfizer order before the whole very rare blood clot stuff struck astrazenica.

 

Even without that, it is clear that Pfizer was the better (higher trial effancy) vaccine, so there would have been sections of society that waned to hold out for pfizer here. Having only one brand means it is a simple yes / no decision, aided by the brand we have picked being one of the best there is.

 

 

One interest comment that Hipkins made in today's presser that the Media missed was he specifically said that "Pfizer will be delivering us all of the vaccines needed to complete our rollout between July and SEPTEMBER"

 

 

 

 

Hipkins made the comment about September weeks ago and it was something that I posted in here at the time that not a lot of people seemed to pick up on.

 

A lot of people this afternoon seem to have been blaming Pfizer for delays being the reason to make these changes but there doesn't seem to be a single piece of evidence anywhere to suggest we're not going to be getting vaccines when we are scheduled to. Even a week ago Pfizer doubled down on their schedules. I think the Govt and MoH are happy for media and people to be blaming Pfizer because it takes the blame off them for setting unrealistic targets.

 

These changes today seem to be more about moving back timeframes because the ones we had set were totally unrealistic. We've known for ~3 months now that the vast majority of people in group 4 for example are going to be vaccinated in September/October, and that combined with the last of group 3 and the ramping up of group 4 in August that we're going to essentially be vaccinating ~50% of the population in a 3 month period between August - October.

 

I've seen to many comments from people who seemed to think that group 3 would be complete by the end of June, and that come the start of July group 4 would be being vaccinated in large numbers. This has never been the case, but based off the timeframes the MoH posted it seemed to be what the public perception was.

 

Moving group 4 back is actually going to allow more of group 3 to be vaccinated, since the schedule is expected to take around 3 months from now.

 

 

 

 




tdgeek
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  #2713328 26-May-2021 17:24
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sbiddle:

 

Hipkins made the comment about September weeks ago and it was something that I posted in here at the time that not a lot of people seemed to pick up on.

 

A lot of people this afternoon seem to have been blaming Pfizer for delays being the reason to make these changes but there doesn't seem to be a single piece of evidence anywhere to suggest we're not going to be getting vaccines when we are scheduled to. Even a week ago Pfizer doubled down on their schedules. I think the Govt and MoH are happy for media and people to be blaming Pfizer because it takes the blame off them for setting unrealistic targets.

 

These changes today seem to be more about moving back timeframes because the ones we had set were totally unrealistic. We've known for ~3 months now that the vast majority of people in group 4 for example are going to be vaccinated in September/October, and that combined with the last of group 3 and the ramping up of group 4 in August that we're going to essentially be vaccinating ~50% of the population in a 3 month period between August - October.

 

I've seen to many comments from people who seemed to think that group 3 would be complete by the end of June, and that come the start of July group 4 would be being vaccinated in large numbers. This has never been the case, but based off the timeframes the MoH posted it seemed to be what the public perception was.

 

Moving group 4 back is actually going to allow more of group 3 to be vaccinated, since the schedule is expected to take around 3 months from now.

 

 

He said Pfizer have delivered what they said they will, but the July onwards deliveries have not been confirmed. Is that false? Its not about blame (although blame is all that seems to matter these days) its about getting confirmation from Pfizer what they will deliver July onwards. If you can confirm that Pfizer have already confirmed July onwards numbers, then you are right. Everyone wants vaccines, its not surprising to me that a country that is not pressed to recover from shocking outbreaks is probably struggling to get the ideal deliveries. 


DS248
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  #2713340 26-May-2021 18:19
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Scott3:

 

...

 

NZ got extremely luck with regards to placing out 2nd pfizer order before the whole very rare blood clot stuff struck astrazenica.

 

Even without that, it is clear that Pfizer was the better (higher trial effancy) vaccine, so there would have been sections of society that waned to hold out for pfizer here. Having only one brand means it is a simple yes / no decision, aided by the brand we have picked being one of the best there is.

 

... 

 

 

 

"Amusingly" in Canada there is an emerging reluctance to get the Moderna vaccine, with people shopping around or delaying in an attempt to get the Pfizer-BioNTech shot.

 

Probably not helped by age stratification with children 12-16 being given Pfizer-BioNTech vs Moderna for adults (including parents of children being vaccinated at the same time).  Presumably some interpret this as indicating that Pfizer-BioNTech is a better and/or safer vaccine?

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/moderna-vaccine-preference-1.6034764

 

 

 

 


sbiddle
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  #2713344 26-May-2021 18:21
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tdgeek:

 

He said Pfizer have delivered what they said they will, but the July onwards deliveries have not been confirmed. Is that false? Its not about blame (although blame is all that seems to matter these days) its about getting confirmation from Pfizer what they will deliver July onwards. If you can confirm that Pfizer have already confirmed July onwards numbers, then you are right. Everyone wants vaccines, its not surprising to me that a country that is not pressed to recover from shocking outbreaks is probably struggling to get the ideal deliveries. 

 

 

There has not been a single comment by him suggesting vaccines have been delayed nor that there will be any delays. He's said all deliveries have been as expected, and that they're expecting exact confirmations next week of future deliveries.

 

This issue appears to simply be one of people's expectations based on the very vague one line dates on the MoH website simply not matching up with reality, and rather than doing anything about this in the last couple of months they've let those "from May" and "from July" dates stay which has lead huge numbers of people to think that all group 3 would be complete by the end of June, and that group 4 would start from the 1st July. This simply never was the case. Up until maybe 2 months ago group 4 was only going to actually start in August, maybe the MoH were stupid changing this.

 

Without wanting to sound like a stuck record because I've posted it numerous times in the past few weeks, the simply reality was we could never complete any more than a small percentage of group 3 by the end of June because we had the 1.1m target and the vast majority of those vaccines were needed for groups 1 and 2 however our media seem so quick to jump to conclusions rather than bothering to look at the facts.

 

 


DS248
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  #2713347 26-May-2021 18:23
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DS248:

 

Scott3:

 

...

 

NZ got extremely luck with regards to placing out 2nd pfizer order before the whole very rare blood clot stuff struck astrazenica.

 

Even without that, it is clear that Pfizer was the better (higher trial effancy) vaccine, so there would have been sections of society that waned to hold out for pfizer here. Having only one brand means it is a simple yes / no decision, aided by the brand we have picked being one of the best there is.

 

... 

 

 

 

"Amusingly" in Canada there is an emerging reluctance to get the Moderna vaccine, with people shopping around or delaying in an attempt to get the Pfizer-BioNTech shot.

 

Probably not helped by age stratification with children 12-16 being given Pfizer-BioNTech vs Moderna for adults (including parents of children being vaccinated at the same time).  Presumably some interpret this as indicating that Pfizer-BioNTech is a better and/or safer vaccine?

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/moderna-vaccine-preference-1.6034764

 

 

 

 

Meant to add that the real reason is of course that Pfizer-BioNTech is currently only the vaccine approved in Canada for 12-16 year old children.




Daynger
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  #2713378 26-May-2021 19:33
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Instead of vaccine centres they should have set up drive through vaccines.

 

They already have the full setup needed in the pop up testing sites, just need a large parking area, anywhere really.

 

Drive up, into line of waiting.

 

Details taken as well as temp.

 

Get vaccine through tent.

 

Drive into carparking area directed by staff.

 

Staff note number plate and time parked, or write time on windscreen with glass chalk.

 

20min wait and staff member can knock on car window, ask relevant questions re feeling weird and make booking for second dose.

 

Bye.

 

 

 

Would be fairly efficient with a one directing parking, one writing on screens, one or two doing the follow up and release.

 

Just need a large carpark or field or whatever and some organisation with car tetris.

 

There shouldnt even be that many cars parked as the vaccinators and information gathering part would likely be around the same as the wait time, so once there is a few cars parked the first ones would be leaving.

 

Que time would likely be the longest wait.


Batman

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  #2713404 26-May-2021 20:19
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bear in mind that the head of logistics of covid vaccination roll out program was found dead in her house 1-2 months ago


alasta
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  #2713405 26-May-2021 20:22
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Daynger:

 

Instead of vaccine centres they should have set up drive through vaccines.

 

 

That's not much use if you don't have a car. 

 

Any event that involves large numbers of people coming and going needs to be accessible on foot or public transport, otherwise you end up with traffic chaos around the vicinity of the site.


Handle9
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  #2713413 26-May-2021 20:29
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alasta:

 

Daynger:

 

Instead of vaccine centres they should have set up drive through vaccines.

 

 

That's not much use if you don't have a car. 

 

Any event that involves large numbers of people coming and going needs to be accessible on foot or public transport, otherwise you end up with traffic chaos around the vicinity of the site.

 

 

Yip. When you have sat in gridlock with your kids for 2 hours trying to get into a drive through testing facility it loses it's appeal.


freitasm
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  #2713418 26-May-2021 21:02
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@Batman:

 

bear in mind that the head of logistics of covid vaccination roll out program was found dead in her house 1-2 months ago

 

 

Citation needed. Where did you see this?





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freitasm
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  #2713419 26-May-2021 21:04
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freitasm:

 

@Batman:

 

bear in mind that the head of logistics of covid vaccination roll out program was found dead in her house 1-2 months ago

 

 

Citation needed. Where did you see this?

 

 

You mean this story? Remuera unexplained death: Pauline Hanna 'horrendously stressed' before unexplained death: stepson - NZ Herald





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Batman

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  #2713424 26-May-2021 21:10
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freitasm:


You mean this story? Remuera unexplained death: Pauline Hanna 'horrendously stressed' before unexplained death: stepson - NZ Herald



Yes it was a big story last month as no explanation found according to police according to the media. Poor husband then became suspect and now can't /not able to work. But anyway, it's not the happiest of stories.

Scott3
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  #2713442 26-May-2021 23:07
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sbiddle:

 

wellygary:

 

One interest comment that Hipkins made in today's presser that the Media missed was he specifically said that "Pfizer will be delivering us all of the vaccines needed to complete our rollout between July and SEPTEMBER"

 

 

 

 

Hipkins made the comment about September weeks ago and it was something that I posted in here at the time that not a lot of people seemed to pick up on.

 

A lot of people this afternoon seem to have been blaming Pfizer for delays being the reason to make these changes but there doesn't seem to be a single piece of evidence anywhere to suggest we're not going to be getting vaccines when we are scheduled to. Even a week ago Pfizer doubled down on their schedules. I think the Govt and MoH are happy for media and people to be blaming Pfizer because it takes the blame off them for setting unrealistic targets.

 

These changes today seem to be more about moving back timeframes because the ones we had set were totally unrealistic. We've known for ~3 months now that the vast majority of people in group 4 for example are going to be vaccinated in September/October, and that combined with the last of group 3 and the ramping up of group 4 in August that we're going to essentially be vaccinating ~50% of the population in a 3 month period between August - October.

 

I've seen to many comments from people who seemed to think that group 3 would be complete by the end of June, and that come the start of July group 4 would be being vaccinated in large numbers. This has never been the case, but based off the timeframes the MoH posted it seemed to be what the public perception was.

 

Moving group 4 back is actually going to allow more of group 3 to be vaccinated, since the schedule is expected to take around 3 months from now.

 

I do remember the July - September thing being discussed, and how large that means the shipments landing will be.

 

Means there is some decent fat in the governments goal of getting everybody who wants to be vaccinated done by the end of the year.

 

In terms of the timeline being unrealistic, they could open to group 4 at any time. Just appointments etc would be extremely hard to come by. Obviously the call has been made to give Group 3 a clear run for july, which means a month worth of big shipments. I assume from the end of july, it will open to everybody, but there will be some kind of priority given to those in groups 1 - 3 (perhaps the entire morning's appointments reserved for them, tapering out over a month or two)...

 

I think the timeline gave the false impression that group 3 would be largely finished before group 4 starts. Vast majority of vaccines are going to need to be done in August to October. Not really any why to suger coat that, other than pointing out the fact we are not desperate.


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