2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2755824 5-Aug-2021 17:49

wellygary:

Handle9:

They won't care - it's for foreigners only.

Exactly...

Just like them fingerprinting all non-citizens entering the country, if they did it to locals all H#ll would break loose and there would be lawsuits flying left and right...

You are probably right.

However I think a large number of countries will follow the the Lead of the USA, and require visitors be vaccinated (and perhaps go further and require their own citizens be vaccinated for isolation free arrivals). The USA is significant enough globally that it placing this rule will mean that other countries will feel comfortable to do similar...

I suspect in a years time the international (isolation free) travel options to un-vaccinated people is going to be pritty limited, and those that do allow it may well require additional PCR tests at the travelers cost.

What is going to be interesting is the detail.

Will vaccination certificates from all countries be accepted (even those with high fraud rates)?

Will all vaccines be accepted? Just western vaccines? Just WHO approved vaccines? Notably Sputnik 5 is not WHO approved despite being pritty good. China for a while would only accept Sinovac and Sinopharm vaccines.

Will better vaccines (i.e. pfizer) be treated the same as less effective vaccines (i.e. J+J)?

Will the vaccines need to be given in the past 12 months or boosted?

Will mix and match vaccine doses be accepted?

Tempting for countries to insist on only the best vaccines for entry, but this is pritty harmfull from a global perspective if we have people getting re-vaccinated with other brands to meet travel requirements when the third world is still crying out for their first round of vaccines.

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gzt

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#2755838 5-Aug-2021 18:59

MikeB4: A Christchurch drug manufacturer has said it has the capability now to manufacture Covid vaccines

edit; I had the locale incorrect it is Timaru

Thanks Mike, I wasn't aware of this:

https://i.stuff.co.nz/timaru-herald/news/125827659/timaru-biotech-company-says-it-can-make-vaccines-for-nz-and-pacific

Awesome. It's a step in the right direction. Timaru would not be my first pick for a stable geology to guarantee continuity of supply and access to markets. On the other hand if the capability is there it makes sense to further develop that capability. Looks like the company is already a successful exporter so that's a big plus.

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#2755842 5-Aug-2021 19:10

Fred99: Later this year Australia is supposed to be starting clinical trails of an mRNA covid vaccine developed by Monash university. But that's still going to be far short of being able to make them in commercial volumes.

Perhaps we'd be better joining with them rather than going alone. It wouldn't surprise me if facilities to manufacture these vaccines globally gets expanded massively and the bottleneck eases.

That's interesting Monash/Aus are choosing to develop from scratch instead of licensing from Pfizer or similar. I didn't expect this. I expect this means the basic science for this tech is published and well understood. After that it's formal trials and approval.

Oblivian

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#2755843 5-Aug-2021 19:18

cshwone: I am sorry but your post above came across quite click-baity when in fact the Reuters report was simply that, a report.

Only if you read it that way. The link, and the line above it was to point out the article. That's it

The rest is the same as everyone else having a say here?

I think everyone missed me there

Yep. Its a report. The same one used on many media outlets since from an anonymous source

And only thia afternoon, herald. So only will be coming to light to kiwis itching to travel again

And with that, I don't mean an American uproar. I mean a kiwi one. Like a recent since removed poster here saying getting jabbed now is a waste of time...

Surprise. That's now the 2nd place that's got a shut out policy on the way already. Where you won't be able to head to without additional costs or needed to be

Not everyone is a tourist waiting for it to be easier. There are medical treatment traveller's. And families and valid dual citizens here yet to return back to US
Cue anti jabbers within NZ claiming their rights are breached by these policies.

Just like how the idea of a passport sparked them. This is the same deal, by a different means.

Handle9

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#2755855 5-Aug-2021 20:10

gzt:
MikeB4: A Christchurch drug manufacturer has said it has the capability now to manufacture Covid vaccines

edit; I had the locale incorrect it is Timaru

Thanks Mike, I wasn't aware of this:

https://i.stuff.co.nz/timaru-herald/news/125827659/timaru-biotech-company-says-it-can-make-vaccines-for-nz-and-pacific

Awesome. It's a step in the right direction. Timaru would not be my first pick for a stable geology to guarantee continuity of supply and access to markets. On the other hand if the capability is there it makes sense to further develop that capability. Looks like the company is already a successful exporter so that's a big plus.

This reads as a play for funding. They weren't happy when the government selected Biocell for funding over them last year.

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#2755860 5-Aug-2021 21:02

Victoria in lockdown again

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/covid-19-coronavirus-victoria-goes-into-lockdown-for-a-week/VRPVFRAKEJLVMXAMCKEYMJPA2M/

Scott3

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#2755862 5-Aug-2021 21:17

Oblivian:
cshwone: I am sorry but your post above came across quite click-baity when in fact the Reuters report was simply that, a report.

Only if you read it that way. The link, and the line above it was to point out the article. That's it

The rest is the same as everyone else having a say here?

I think everyone missed me there

Yep. Its a report. The same one used on many media outlets since from an anonymous source

And only thia afternoon, herald. So only will be coming to light to kiwis itching to travel again

And with that, I don't mean an American uproar. I mean a kiwi one. Like a recent since removed poster here saying getting jabbed now is a waste of time...

Surprise. That's now the 2nd place that's got a shut out policy on the way already. Where you won't be able to head to without additional costs or needed to be

Not everyone is a tourist waiting for it to be easier. There are medical treatment traveller's. And families and valid dual citizens here yet to return back to US
Cue anti jabbers within NZ claiming their rights are breached by these policies.

Just like how the idea of a passport sparked them. This is the same deal, by a different means.

Kinda pointless having an uproar about other countries visitor entry requirement's as an individual. If the USA puts this into effect they have decided they don't want vaccinated visitors, yelling at them from NZ, and telling them they are wrong isn't going to achieve anything, their decision makers exist to serve their citizens, not foreigners... (perhaps something compassionate like an exemption for those in an age group with no approved vaccine, or with a medical reason they are unable to get vaccinated could have an impact)

As a country you can do tit for tat, like where south africa ended visa free travel by new zealanders after we ended visa free travel for south Africans, But I think the USA would be fine with other countries applying vaccination requirements on their travelers.

Dual NZ / USA citizens don't sound like they will be captured under this policy. Medical or recreational tourists will have the choice of complying, or taking their money elsewhere.

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#2755885 5-Aug-2021 21:45

Regarding on shore vaccine manufacture, Aussie had a facility as at CSL's Broadmeadows that I assume they had been funding as part of their pandemic planning, but it didn't work out well.

Their initial plan was to developer a vaccine locally, but that vaccine candidate was discontinued in early stages due to throwing false positive test results for an unrelated condition.

They then moved on to producing AstraZeneca under licence, but for some reason, they first doses weren't able to be produced until late march 2021.

Australia stuck to locally produced AstraZeneca doses being the bulk of their vaccination plan (presumably because they were cheaper, or more supply security, or because using local manufactured doses was a good look politically), even in the face of evidence showing it was less effective than other vaccines (Pfizer, Moderna, Sputnik VI).

Then the very rare blood clot news broke, and completly messed up their vaccination campaign. They were going to end up way later than NZ, but somehow (I assume via a big payment) their big pfizer orders started turning up at around the same time as ours despite being orders many weeks later.

Mean while NZ picked four different vaccine makers each with distinct different approaches. And when it became apparent that pfizer was more effective (and likely to deliver on time) than AZ we ordered enough for the whole country. Allowed us to dodge all of the drama of the aussie roll out.

I think NZ as a small population, rich country, being able to cherry pick from international manufactures using different technologies is likely a better outcome than having our own facility (that will only be set up for one technology) - that we need to pay every year to keep on standby.

Of course if we plan to become a major vaccine player and run our own vaccination development programs, and production for export for non pandemic related things, and have the ability to pivot to a pandemic related vaccine if needed, that would be sweet. Just not sure we have the skills, or willingness to put in the capital for such a program.

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#2755886 5-Aug-2021 21:50

Well UK has had vaccinate or quarantine rules, so its spreading.
I guess USA not having quarantine system simply says vaccinate or don't come.

Fully vaccinated UK arrivals from France will not need to quarantine, neither will under 18s who could not be vaccinated until recently.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/04/fully-vaccinated-britons-returning-from-france-and-spain-will-not-need-to-quarantine

""
However, in a final note of caution, the government has warned there are still concerns about Spain, the most popular summer destination for British tourists, and said it would keep the country under close watch.
""
Even during last year’s disrupted travel season, at least 3.2 million Brits travelled to Spain.
""

I suppose that level of travel in a pandemic explains UKs waves.

We are in box seat with Pfizer vaccine as its approved in most countries ,
its just matter of typing up with each country the accepted documentation.
Even Fosan China has licensed so once available in China it would be bizarre if they then don't accept Pfizer.
https://news.yahoo.com/fosun-biontech-covid-19-vaccine-031627609.html

It will be a counterfeiters bonanza given the money some will spend to avoid.
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Oblivian

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#2755887 5-Aug-2021 21:59

Scott3:
Dual NZ / USA citizens don't sound like they will be captured under this policy. Medical or recreational tourists will have the choice of complying, or taking their money elsewhere.

Absolutely. But you're thinking too literal and logically.

Have you read the nzherald comments section recently? I Just don't have faith in the rest of our population. A view shared by a few here it would appear.

I kept out of the goings on here recently with those popping their heads up with even a hint of the same examples you see on them, And everyone went nuts

Logic doesn't fit for the group of people I suspect will cry foul in the way I suggest over these policies. Even if people aren't effected directly. They will stamp feet with the rights breech lines.

These are plain jane kiwis. Who sound like Americans. And it's kinda scary. But the moment I suggest it I'm being pointed to the exits or shot down.

(If you have the time also go note the comments on the official covid page sponsored ads trying to bring back qr scans. Which at their lowest since the biggest outbreak...)

Apparently anything posted about covid deaths, or even what is going on across the ditch is scaremongering. I'm waiting for this one to pop up and see the sparks also fly like the ones today (death of iron man guy, doctor with post covid lung xrays)

We're reasonably level headed here. But limited numbers and we don't seem to fit the same bill as good chunk of population with a phone in their hand.

The last article about the potential for requiring a covid passport, or qantas going no jab no fly, was met with kickback. All I'm suggesting is, with the UK and US taking lead and introducing it. The likelyhood of more to follow will probably be no different in the eyes these people. And kick them all off again.

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#2755899 5-Aug-2021 22:23

Fred99:

Tasmania has their first confirmed case in over a year - traveller from Sydney who somehow "escaped" and got to Tasmania via Victoria on a flight on Monday , was intercepted and quarantined as he didn't have the required pass - then somehow managed to skip quarantine to fly back to Sydney yesterday - before his positive test was returned.

Sounds like a complete debacle.

Sounds like a douche.

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#2755901 5-Aug-2021 22:26

wellygary:

Just like them fingerprinting all non-citizens entering the country, if they did it to locals all H#ll would break loose and there would be lawsuits flying left and right...

I remember when years ago the US border started fingerprinting non-citizens entering the country and Brazil did the same in retaliation - a few Americans landing there got really agro about it.

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Handle9

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#2755915 6-Aug-2021 00:14

Scott3:

Will vaccination certificates from all countries be accepted (even those with high fraud rates)?

Will all vaccines be accepted? Just western vaccines? Just WHO approved vaccines? Notably Sputnik 5 is not WHO approved despite being pritty good. China for a while would only accept Sinovac and Sinopharm vaccines.

The way this is being managed in the EU is EMA approved vaccine certificates are accepted but you need a QR code on your vaccine certificate. This links to your government portal.

Vaccine passports like IATA travelpass will be the way this is managed in the future.

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#2755916 6-Aug-2021 00:15

freitasm:

wellygary:

Just like them fingerprinting all non-citizens entering the country, if they did it to locals all H#ll would break loose and there would be lawsuits flying left and right...

I remember when years ago the US border started fingerprinting non-citizens entering the country and Brazil did the same in retaliation - a few Americans landing there got really agro about it.

They love doing the same thing here. If a US or UK citizen gets bounced for being a dick it's all over the papers. Once you hear the back story it's usually them being drunk and obnoxious.

mattwnz

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#2755917 6-Aug-2021 00:17

Batman: Victoria in lockdown again

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/covid-19-coronavirus-victoria-goes-into-lockdown-for-a-week/VRPVFRAKEJLVMXAMCKEYMJPA2M/

Show how vulnerable NZ is if we get a local case popup that can't be traced. Hardly anyone is scanning again too. The Delta seems to be far more difficult to deal with.

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