2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2760372 16-Aug-2021 00:26

tdgeek:

A bizarre statement

Gray said there were a combination of other factors that contributed to the fast spread of the virus in the state, such as low vaccination rates, high transmission within households, likely a bit of complacency and also people feeling well but unknowingly were infected and spreading the virus in the community.

A number of countries, overcame an outbreak or outbreaks, when there was no vaccine. A bit of complacency? I see that as the main cause. Yes, Delta is harder, but if you are in a proper lockdown and stay at home and wear a mask on the rare occasions when many have to leave home, (groceries, essential services, but not Bunnings) it can be contained.

IMO they didn't lock down early enough and are now blaming flouters, Delta and complacency. They have let everyone down IMO, including all NZers, as it effectively has closed the bubble. They should have done a strict lockdown when it was clear they had CT, everyone knows it.

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#2760375 16-Aug-2021 07:09

mattwnz:

IMO they didn't lock down early enough and are now blaming flouters, Delta and complacency. They have let everyone down IMO, including all NZers, as it effectively has closed the bubble. They should have done a strict lockdown when it was clear they had CT, everyone knows it.

Yes they should have, but flouters and complacency has played a huge role in this. Its been extensive there.

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#2760378 16-Aug-2021 07:33

tdgeek:

mattwnz:

IMO they didn't lock down early enough and are now blaming flouters, Delta and complacency. They have let everyone down IMO, including all NZers, as it effectively has closed the bubble. They should have done a strict lockdown when it was clear they had CT, everyone knows it.

Yes they should have, but flouters and complacency has played a huge role in this. Its been extensive there.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

We have to remember that the exact steps and processes that they put in place initially had worked multiple times previously with earlier outbreaks. The reality is that it's only been in the past 4-5 weeks (after the Sydney outbreak started) that we've truly understood how quickly Delta can spread.

Remember in mid June when Melbourne and Sydney were warning of catching Delta just by passing people in a shopping mall and you global experts were telling them they were wrong? The biggest problem now is that when Delta is entering a household that every person in that household is becoming infectious, that's not something that happened previously.

It's going to be very interesting to see if Sydney (and Australia as a whole) can vaccinate their way out of a country wide pandemic. Despite our ramping up they're still a long way ahead of us with their rollout, and it's going to be interesting once they hit 80% of so in November.

While things aren't great there the reality is vaccines work, and they do have plenty both in supply (and got another 1m early last night from Pfizer from Poland's supplies). While far from ideal, there is at least a light at the end of the tunnel.

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#2760380 16-Aug-2021 07:47

sbiddle:

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

We have to remember that the exact steps and processes that they put in place initially had worked multiple times previously with earlier outbreaks. The reality is that it's only been in the past 4-5 weeks (after the Sydney outbreak started) that we've truly understood how quickly Delta can spread.

Remember in mid June when Melbourne and Sydney were warning of catching Delta just by passing people in a shopping mall and you global experts were telling them they were wrong? The biggest problem now is that when Delta is entering a household that every person in that household is becoming infectious, that's not something that happened previously.

It's going to be very interesting to see if Sydney (and Australia as a whole) can vaccinate their way out of a country wide pandemic. Despite our ramping up they're still a long way ahead of us with their rollout, and it's going to be interesting once they hit 80% of so in November.

While things aren't great there the reality is vaccines work, and they do have plenty both in supply (and got another 1m early last night from Pfizer from Poland's supplies). While far from ideal, there is at least a light at the end of the tunnel.

Not really hindsight. Lockdowns started 18 months ago. The problem is insufficient lockdowns, too late, too weak, caused lockdown fatigue

"You global experts"? I dont think anyone here was against masks

I doubt they will reach 80%, by the time you take account of young kids and deniers, and that even if they got 100%, a vaccine is not 100% effective, so deduct a further 10% off whatever they get. yes, vaccines are a key, but they still need physical barriers as well, which is going poorly there

Are they still a long way ahead of us with the rollout? Id like to see a figure of their rollout when they got the outbreak and ours when we get the outbreak

"worked multiple times" That says it all

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#2760383 16-Aug-2021 08:09

is there a chart that tells us how many group 1, 2, 3, 4 in NZ are vaccinated?

tdgeek

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#2760385 16-Aug-2021 08:15

Batman:

is there a chart that tells us how many group 1, 2, 3, 4 in NZ are vaccinated?

https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-data-and-statistics/covid-19-vaccine-data#group

Technofreak

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#2760386 16-Aug-2021 08:30

tdgeek:

Batman:

is there a chart that tells us how many group 1, 2, 3, 4 in NZ are vaccinated?

https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-data-and-statistics/covid-19-vaccine-data#group

I seriously doubt they know how many of each category have been vaccinated. I'm in category 1 but I don't think it was recorded anywhere what category I was in when I was vaccinated. My wife also was vaccinated purely becuase she was a household contact of mine. What category did she go into? We just joined in with what ever group was being vaccinated at the time.

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Technofreak

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#2760387 16-Aug-2021 08:32

tdgeek:

sbiddle:

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

We have to remember that the exact steps and processes that they put in place initially had worked multiple times previously with earlier outbreaks. The reality is that it's only been in the past 4-5 weeks (after the Sydney outbreak started) that we've truly understood how quickly Delta can spread.

Remember in mid June when Melbourne and Sydney were warning of catching Delta just by passing people in a shopping mall and you global experts were telling them they were wrong? The biggest problem now is that when Delta is entering a household that every person in that household is becoming infectious, that's not something that happened previously.

It's going to be very interesting to see if Sydney (and Australia as a whole) can vaccinate their way out of a country wide pandemic. Despite our ramping up they're still a long way ahead of us with their rollout, and it's going to be interesting once they hit 80% of so in November.

While things aren't great there the reality is vaccines work, and they do have plenty both in supply (and got another 1m early last night from Pfizer from Poland's supplies). While far from ideal, there is at least a light at the end of the tunnel.

Not really hindsight. Lockdowns started 18 months ago. The problem is insufficient lockdowns, too late, too weak, caused lockdown fatigue

"You global experts"? I dont think anyone here was against masks

I doubt they will reach 80%, by the time you take account of young kids and deniers, and that even if they got 100%, a vaccine is not 100% effective, so deduct a further 10% off whatever they get. yes, vaccines are a key, but they still need physical barriers as well, which is going poorly there

Are they still a long way ahead of us with the rollout? Id like to see a figure of their rollout when they got the outbreak and ours when we get the outbreak

"worked multiple times" That says it all

I think the global experts comment was in relation to catching the Delta virus just by passing people in a shooping mall, nothing mentioned about masks.

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#2760388 16-Aug-2021 08:35

Technofreak:

I think the global experts comment was in relation to catching the Delta virus just by passing people in a shooping mall, nothing mentioned about masks.

Ah, true. However, same applies, I dont think anyone here disagrees that it can spread in a shopping mall. "you global experts" implies it was implying GZ posters

Oblivian

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#2760390 16-Aug-2021 08:46

Ironically, mandatory fulltime masks were considered. However despite above. And the article that charged the 2 passing in supermarket, or the groups at the beaches having a party. It seems someone didn't agree with it when asked..

Ms Berejiklian conceded there was little to no evidence of COVID-19 transmission outdoors or through singles bubbles and the changes were made at the request of police to support their compliance operations.

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#2760392 16-Aug-2021 08:50

https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/300383539/canada-to-require-all-air-travellers-to-be-vaccinated

France and Canada are going down this track and so will many others I expect, planes and trains, a national measure.

Fred99

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#2760395 16-Aug-2021 09:15

They've given up in NSW:

New South Wales Premier Gladys Berejiklian has given the clearest single yet the state has given up on any goal of getting Covid-19 case numbers back down to zero.

When asked directly if the state could still reach zero, given cases during the last two days had been in the 400s, the Premier on Sunday said eliminating the Delta variant was “near impossible”.

“We have to learn to live with it. But the best chance we have to live with it freely and safely is to get the case numbers down as low as possible.”

At his daily case numbers update, Victorian Premier Daniel Andrews was even blunter when asked for his assessment on the situation north of the Murray.

“There is no way they are going to get to zero,” he said. “They are going to have to vaccinate their way out of this”.

80% vaccination rate won't make the population "safe" - endemic C-19 will mean that the elderly and immunocompromised need to be kept isolated from the rest of the community, unless or until there's a miracle in treatments.

Part of NSW's failure to contain their outbreak was that they'd painted themselves into a corner WRT "Jobkeeper" support. Morrison and Berejiklian had spent a year with constant political attacks on the cost of Victoria's lockdowns. The other part of the failure was partial lockdowns that all the experts (who were not political appointees) said were not going to work - didn't work.

Gladys Berejiklian -> "surprised pikachu face".

Scott Morrison -> MIA

It's a shame John Clarke isn't around to see this. He'd have been able to roll out an updated version of "the front fell off".

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#2760407 16-Aug-2021 09:44

Fred99: the elderly and immunocompromised need to be kept isolated from the rest of the community, unless or until there's a miracle in treatments.

the stuff that turn Trump and gang into cult superheroes - what's it ... antibodies :)

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#2760477 16-Aug-2021 10:28

tdgeek:

Technofreak:

I think the global experts comment was in relation to catching the Delta virus just by passing people in a shooping mall, nothing mentioned about masks.

Ah, true. However, same applies, I dont think anyone here disagrees that it can spread in a shopping mall. "you global experts" implies it was implying GZ posters

My comment was in relation to the infection in Westfield Bondi in Sydney from fleeting contact (which was also backed by cases in Melbourne in June where contacts between people had been very brief)

Many experts incl the WHO basically dismissed the fact that Covid spread was possible simply by walking past somebody - "Health officials at the World Health Organisation say there is not yet enough evidence to confirm a growing belief in Australia that the Delta COVID-19 can transmit in just five seconds rather than 15 minutes."

To suggest NSW (and Australia as a whole) weren't taking the risk of Delta seriously is simply not the case, but when they've got so many global experts telling them that spread simply wasn't possible in the way they were claiming it was does show how much we've learned in the past 4-5 weeks.

https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/who-says-jury-out-on-fleeting-contact-strain-of-delta-virus-in-australia-20210626-p584g0.html

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#2760487 16-Aug-2021 10:46

Thanks for the clarification. If the AUS officials felt it was easier to spread than some global experts, that doesn't seem to have manifested in the lite lockdowns they have had.

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