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  #2438553 15-Mar-2020 13:02
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Batman:

 

without any prejudice, just stating matter of factly, a multitude of people are making the jump from Aus to NZ today as we speak to avoid the quarantine. so yes we will import Covid today too.

 

 

You're right. They come back today instead of next week, when they still wouldn't require self isolation. On that it wouldn't have made any or much difference. At least the door is being locked tonight.  


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  #2438555 15-Mar-2020 13:07
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Fred99:

GV27:


This is the reason I have been saying Australia not having a handle on things is our biggest problem. How someone can think they are fine to travel while they wait for results after being tested for a disease which is known to be asymptomatic is just staggering. 



If he'd flown in direct from France to NZ on 10 March, then he wouldn't have been tested or asked to self isolate here - unless he showed symptoms - which he didn't.


I don't think we can blame Aus - and in particular don't blame this guy who's been named.  Easy to say that what he did was unwise - but that's said with the benefit of hindsight.  Hopefully there aren't too many other cases like this in NZ - asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic.


 



But if he was tested he shouldn't even get out of AU before knowing the results.




 

 

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  #2438556 15-Mar-2020 13:07
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GV27:

 

Fred99:

 

I don't think we can blame Aus - and in particular don't blame this guy who's been named.  Easy to say that what he did was unwise - but that's said with the benefit of hindsight.  Hopefully there aren't too many other cases like this in NZ - asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic.

 

 

I cannot accept that. He was in a Covid19 hotspot area overseas. He was considered a high enough risk to meet the threshold for a test in Australia. He went to another country before he knew the results.

 

At some point you have to stop making excuses for ignorance, and I am less inclined to be forgiving about this kind of thing given what is at stake. No hindsight needed. This was outrageously stupid. 

 

 

I 100% agree and it riles me too, but Fred is right, the rules were not broken. All I can take from it is in 11 hours, everyone in the world is locked out and must do 14 days and all will be registered. Thats a large catch-all. I see there is an ability to enforce it if needed.


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  #2438559 15-Mar-2020 13:16
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GV27:

 

Supposedly a person has tested positive for Covid19 in Wellington. However he was tested in Queensland and still came to NZ before the results came back:

 

Reynaud said he had returned to Townsville from France on Tuesday, March 10, and was not showing any signs of illness. He was tested by Queensland Health officials on Thursday because he had been abroad.

 

The next night he and his wife boarded a flight from Brisbane to Wellington.

 

Reynaud said he received a phone call on Saturday morning from his doctor confirming he had tested positive for coronavirus.

 

 

 

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12316758

 

This is the reason I have been saying Australia not having a handle on things is our biggest problem. How someone can think they are fine to travel while they wait for results after being tested for a disease which is known to be asymptomatic is just staggering. 

 

 

I don't think it's a case of them thinking they are fine to travel It's more a case that they don't care. I think the government isn't taking this part of human behavior into account with their policies, seem to be assuming people will do the right thing and that the odd one that doesn't they're prepared to roll the dice.

 

Still not happy with this self isolation thing as the current method relies on person being honest and caring. It only takes a few bad eggs to spoil the rest even if most are good, i.e most people comply.

 

With self isolation people are still allowed to move around, how do they spot check that they don't go to bar or restaurant when they don't have to stay in same place?

 

You weren't in your hotel room sir, oh I went out for a two hour walk

 

Except for returning New Zealanders (who should be quarantined for two weeks), no one should be allowed in from places where it's community spreading. 

 

Current policy allows for continue threat of NZ community spread, while that threat is there I will not eat out or go to a bar, so the government still has people currently coming into the country, but if a lot of people think like me there's a lot of local business being lost else where.

 

My understanding is freight is low risk, days pass before parcel opened, goes through a few temperature changes in journey, so more then likely virus will be dead before goods opened, so it's only passenger services that need to be effected.

 

 

 

Current method will lead to something going wrong, as with this person from Australia, and once control of spread is lost the cost will be a lot higher then blocking/restricting passenger flights.

 

Realize not midnight yet so person came in on old rules, but new rules would not have prevented either.


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  #2438561 15-Mar-2020 13:23
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rugrat:

 

I don't think it's a case of them thinking they are fine to travel It's more a case that they don't care. I think the government isn't taking this part of human behavior into account with their policies, seem to be assuming people will do the right thing and that the odd one that doesn't they're prepared to roll the dice.

 

Still not happy with this self isolation thing as the current method relies on person being honest and caring. It only takes a few bad eggs to spoil the rest even if most are good, i.e most people comply.

 

With self isolation people are still allowed to move around, how do they spot check that they don't go to bar or restaurant when they don't have to stay in same place?

 

You weren't in your hotel room sir, oh I went out for a two hour walk

 

Except for returning New Zealanders (who should be quarantined for two weeks), no one should be allowed in from places where it's community spreading. 

 

Current policy allows for continue threat of NZ community spread, while that threat is there I will not eat out or go to a bar, so the government still has people currently coming into the country, but if a lot of people think like me there's a lot of local business being lost else where.

 

My understanding is freight is low risk, days pass before parcel opened, goes through a few temperature changes in journey, so more then likely virus will be dead before goods opened, so it's only passenger services that need to be effected.

 

 

 

Current method will lead to something going wrong, as with this person from Australia, and once control of spread is lost the cost will be a lot higher then blocking/restricting passenger flights.

 

Realize not midnight yet so person came in on old rules, but new rules would not have prevented either.

 

 

Yes, you can't stop this who don't care. But how can you make it mandatory, there is no way unless you pick them up and take them to a quarantine facility and lick them up. 

 

No, self isolation doesn't mean you can move around. You can go for a walk around the block but you can't go where the public are. No shops, no supermarket, no nothing. 

 

I get what you say, but its not possible to lock everyone up. We can report people and the Govt can forcibly detain anyone they hear is not self isolating. IIRC at any one time, there are 2000 in isolation, and that will be more now for a short while.


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  #2438563 15-Mar-2020 13:30
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To clarify self isolation, as some feel its ok to go places, go to a shop as long as you are one meter away, etc, its more than that. PM suggest go for a walk around the block. Thats ok, you are alone, keep away from everyone. If it was me and someone walking towards me, Id hop to the road edge, that type of thing.

 

  What is self-isolation? 

 

Self-isolation means avoiding situations where you could infect other people.

 

This means avoiding all situations where you may come in contact with others, such as social gatherings, work, school, childcare/preschool centres, university, faith-based gatherings, aged care and healthcare facilities, prisons, sports gatherings, supermarkets, restaurants, shopping malls
and all public gatherings.

 

If you are a visitor to New Zealand, this means you should avoid sitting in a restaurant, participating in any type of tour group or using public transport, including flights, buses and trains between cities in New Zealand.

 

 

 

 


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  #2438565 15-Mar-2020 13:37
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Flu strain.
Herd vaccination.

Not everyone does it. We may not be happy about it, But greater numbers are protected as a result.

I know that's not what this is. But repeated 'it won't work's and large posts aren't exactly what this thread first started as but has soon snowballed into. :/

Everyone needs to sit back and chill again. Keep an eye on the rest of the world. Think about yourselves and family. And make your own potential contingencies while we wait for details to be forthcoming around it all.

This was a good centric resource. But fast becoming a Facebook user posts thread going by some of the stuff i stupidity looked at :)

 
 
 
 


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  #2438568 15-Mar-2020 13:39
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This clown in Wellington should have good 'trace-ability'. Surely everyone he has come into contact with need to self isolate now and await symptoms or the all clear? Like his son, hotel concierge, staff at the cafe, fellow diners etc. Far out, you would have to be very brave to predict events a week from now let alone the next day or two. 

 

 


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  #2438569 15-Mar-2020 13:43
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MileHighKiwi:

This clown in Wellington should have good 'trace-ability'. Surely everyone he has come into contact with need to self isolate now and await symptoms or the all clear? Like his son, hotel concierge, staff at the cafe, fellow diners etc. Far out, you would have to be very brave to predict events a week from now let alone the next day or two. 


 


Early on press conf with the 4th or 5th case we had, they had a good list of 100direct contacts

So there's possibly a crack team on it.

At that stage they were getting more staff on to cope with the people calling up afraid their cough meant they had it and to track and test those direct contacts

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  #2438573 15-Mar-2020 13:51
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freitasm:

But if he was tested he shouldn't even get out of AU before knowing the results.

 

 

 

Exactly.

 

 

 

I have read that we now have a huge number of people wanting to return to NZ from Australia, and they are looking to use bigger planes. IMO all those people should be quarantined, like the people returning from China were. For them to self isolate when they may not have accommodation, or will likely have to live with family, and risking infecting them, IMO is not good. The outbreak seems to be out of control in Oz, and it is likely at least some of these people coming back will be infected. There is no point in us taking these dramatic steps, if the virus is still able to leak in. Alternatively we should only be allowing NZers back if they have a good reason to come back at this time, or were supposed to be coming back prior to this announcement, and then requiring them to be quarantined. It seems they are currently only returning due to panic at what is happening in Oz.

 

Also IMO anyone who has come into NZ in the past 14 days from any country, including the UK and Oz should be self isolating for 14 days from their date of arrival. This new case just shows that this is needed. They should have always backdated the self isolation requirements, because otherwise cases would leak through.  I do also worry that 14 days isn't enough, because if someone returns who is a carrier, and goes into self isolation, but during that period infects someone else in the family a week later but never get ill, then all members may finish self isolation after 7 days, but the other family member may be infected for 7 more days, and will be out in the public.


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  #2438574 15-Mar-2020 13:51
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freitasm:

But if he was tested he shouldn't even get out of AU before knowing the results.

 

Do you reckon that people asked to self-isolate in NZ would have been prevented from leaving the country 5 days ago - that we'd have had a system that would have raised a flag at airport immigration? 

 

There are a lot of assumptions that this guy was stupid or inconsiderate, which might be the case (or it might not be - we're relying on a Stuff article based partly on a facebook post and "according to (unspecified) reports" for "facts").

 

The systems we're going to have to have in place are going to have to deal with stupid and inconsiderate people  (as well as the possibility of deliberately malicious people - only a few of whom could create havoc).  


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  #2438576 15-Mar-2020 13:58
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Fred99:

 

 

 

The systems we're going to have to have in place are going to have to deal with stupid and inconsiderate people   

 

 

 

 

That is the problem with self isolation, it relies on everyone being considerate and following common sense, and assumes everyone has good hygiene practices, when children often don't. That is why I do wonder if the government shouldn't be leasing some large hotels and quarantining people returning from Australia, the UK etc, in those, as it is likely some of these people returning will have it. If they have it bad, it is going to cost us in hospital resources. 

 

This virus is  unprecedented in NZs history, and calls for extreme measures.


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  #2438577 15-Mar-2020 13:58
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mattwnz:

 

 

 

Exactly.

 

 

 

I have read that we now have a huge number of people wanting to return to NZ from Australia, and they are looking to use bigger planes. IMO all those people should be quarantined, like the people returning from China were. For them to self isolate when they may not have accommodation, or will likely have to live with family, and risking infecting them, IMO is not good. The outbreak seems to be out of control in Oz, and it is likely at least some of these people coming back will be infected. There is no point in us taking these dramatic steps, if the virus is still able to leak in. Alternatively we should only be allowing NZers back if they have a good reason to come back at this time, or were supposed to be coming back prior to this announcement, and then requiring them to be quarantined. It seems they are currently only returning due to panic at what is happening in Oz.

 

Also IMO anyone who has come into NZ in the past 14 days from any country, including the UK and Oz should be self isolating for 14 days from their date of arrival. This new case just shows that this is needed. They should have always backdated the self isolation requirements, because otherwise cases would leak through.  I do also worry that 14 days isn't enough, because if someone returns who is a carrier, and goes into self isolation, but during that period infects someone else in the family a week later but never get ill, then all members may finish self isolation after 7 days, but the other family member may be infected for 7 more days, and will be out in the public.

 

 

The new measures could have, and probably should have been put in place at 1pm yesterday. Also I doubt the extra travel today is due to escaping Oz, they are escaping the 14 days 

 

Yes, its a bummer, but I want to be positive, it gets better at midnight


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  #2438580 15-Mar-2020 14:02
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What I think is he should have been told not to leave the house until results were in.




 

 

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  #2438581 15-Mar-2020 14:04
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GV27:

 

 

 

I have long suspected we are heading towards a Japanese style deflationary situation (no control over the currency, long periods of little growth, ageing population issues, work/lifestyle balance and wage issues we do not have the flexibility to address).

 

They have gone to effectively negative interest rates. I suspect we are about to move that way too. Zero is no longer the floor it once was when it comes to central banking.

 

Of course, we could see more targeted intervention (e.g. using Kiwibank to offer a sustainable mortgage product for owner-occupiers) or even through the banks themselves. Frankly I'm not sure what the hell is going to happen. But I know we are heading towards a 0% OCR a lot quicker than we were a month ago. 

 

 

 

 

They have little room to drop now. I recall after previous drops, them saying that when you get down to this sort to of level, drops have little affect anyway. The problem with dropping them so low , is that many older people have moved their life savings out of the bank where they were hardly earning anything in interest, and into shares, but now shares have dropped a lot.

 

I think the problem will be that people won't be able to service their mortgages if there are major job losses due to this. We should have never allowed house price inflation to get so far out of control compared to wages, as it is could come back  bite big time.


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