2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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Mad Scientist
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#2767724 27-Aug-2021 16:51

Dingbatt:

Plus the index case that kicked the whole thing off in Australasia was an Aircrew Chauffeur who didn’t follow the protocols so would have happened with zero MIQ in Oz.

wow this is profound. almost forgot about that. one guy shutting down Australasia.

anyone has a link to the story?

i am going to read this every day

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mattwnz

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#2767725 27-Aug-2021 16:51

Dingbatt:

mattwnz:

But we played Russian roulette with the travel bubble as well as with MIQ so this was always a risk. Australia restricted their MIQ numbers to reduce risk.

And yet the QFT bubble worked as advertised. This latest outbreak is all but confirmed as a Red Flight Passenger that entered the country after QFT was closed from NSW.

There isn't the detailed info on that that I have seen. I recall a reporter asked about this, but didn't get a chance to ask a follow up question. But were they a traveler who went to Oz as part of the transtasman bubble and then came back and then went into MIQ? If so then that case would never have been travelling at all if the bubble hadn't been open and therefore we may not be in this current situation, as they wouldn't have been in MIQ at all. Every single person going into MIQ is a risk of a leak.

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#2767727 27-Aug-2021 16:53

Batman:

Dingbatt:

Plus the index case that kicked the whole thing off in Australasia was an Aircrew Chauffeur who didn’t follow the protocols so would have happened with zero MIQ in Oz.

wow this is profound. almost forgot about that. one guy shutting down Australasia.

anyone has a link to the story?

i am going to read this every day

The entire pandemic likely started with just one case though.

mattwnz

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#2767731 27-Aug-2021 16:58

Dingbatt:

Sorry but the vote is only for Aucklanders.

I don’t care what the rest of the country does, just close the Auckland facilities since they have been the source of every outbreak. If that halves the number of available MIQ spots until the government sorts their act out, so be it.

They can't stop people returning to NZ. Australia has restricted the numbers of people returning far more than NZ has per capita, and they also charge everyone for the MIQ stay. It isn't the fault of people returning it is the systems in MIQ, and that hotels are being used which were never designed for this purpose, as well as other potential identified factors in this case.

HelloThere

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#2767732 27-Aug-2021 17:00

Geektastic: Unless they actually specify the mask standard people must wear, I'm personally dubious as to the actual efficacy of that particular rule.

Considering I've seen people wearing them inside out and upside down I think they'll need to come with a training manual.

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#2767733 27-Aug-2021 17:02

Batman:

wow this is profound. almost forgot about that. one guy shutting down Australasia.

anyone has a link to the story?

i am going to read this every day

I mean the Delta outbreak.

Edit: Took out unnecessary comment.

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#2767737 27-Aug-2021 17:06

mattwnz:

Dingbatt:

And yet the QFT bubble worked as advertised. This latest outbreak is all but confirmed as a Red Flight Passenger that entered the country after QFT was closed from NSW.

There isn't the detailed info on that that I have seen. I recall a reporter asked about this, but didn't get a chance to ask a follow up question. But were they a traveler who went to Oz as part of the transtasman bubble and then came back and then went into MIQ? If so then that case would never have been travelling at all if the bubble hadn't been open and therefore we may not be in this current situation, as they wouldn't have been in MIQ at all. Every single person going into MIQ is a risk of a leak.

Not relevant. The leak was at MIQ, so the origin of the traveller or how they left NZ (If they left NZ to start with) doesn't matter. There are only so many MIQ rooms, and they are always fully booked - therefore if the bubble never happened, the same room would have been occupied by someone else from another part of the world entering NZ.

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#2767739 27-Aug-2021 17:07

antonknee:

Think the reasoning for that is:

Safe to say that the red flight returnees were only in NSW in the first place courtesy of the bubble. No bubble to get there, no need for red flights back. Ergo, this outbreak is still linked back to the bubble?

Yes, you nailed it.

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#2767740 27-Aug-2021 17:08

mattwnz:

antonknee:

Think the reasoning for that is:

Safe to say that the red flight returnees were only in NSW in the first place courtesy of the bubble. No bubble to get there, no need for red flights back. Ergo, this outbreak is still linked back to the bubble?

Yes, you nailed it.

Sorry, but you absolutely did not. See above

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Dingbatt

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#2767741 27-Aug-2021 17:11

mattwnz:

(quote) antonknee:

Think the reasoning for that is:

Safe to say that the red flight returnees were only in NSW in the first place courtesy of the bubble. No bubble to get there, no need for red flights back. Ergo, this outbreak is still linked back to the bubble?

(quote)

Yes, you nailed it.

Except NZers we’re able to travel quarantine free to Australia since August 2020. NZ made it a ‘Bubble’ in February 2021.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

Handle9

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#2767742 27-Aug-2021 17:14

antonknee:
Dingbatt:

And yet the QFT bubble worked as advertised. This latest outbreak is all but confirmed as a Red Flight Passenger that entered the country after QFT was closed from NSW. I’ve yet to see any of the “I told you so” brigade retract their comments though.

Plus the index case that kicked the whole thing off in Australasia was an Aircrew Chauffeur who didn’t follow the protocols so would have happened with zero MIQ in Oz.

Think the reasoning for that is:

Safe to say that the red flight returnees were only in NSW in the first place courtesy of the bubble. No bubble to get there, no need for red flights back. Ergo, this outbreak is still linked back to the bubble?

The reasoning is confirmation bias.

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#2767746 27-Aug-2021 17:19

sBiddle:
But the NZDF presense at MIQ facilities is not that high - so many people seem to have the idea they are the security presence, which is not (and never has been) the case. They pretty much want out of the small role they're still performing.

The biggest issue would be whether the local DHB or contractors can provide enough staff.

So the ASG (that would be Auckland Security Group, comprised entirely of NZDF) along with HSG, RSG, WSG and CSG don't provide a security presence? Not to mention every facility having and NZDF MIF manager and team working for them...

For a small defence force, the numbers provided are a significant percentage, regardless of how "small" you may think it is.

mattwnz

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#2767747 27-Aug-2021 17:20

ajobbins:

Not relevant. The leak was at MIQ, so the origin of the traveller or how they left NZ (If they left NZ to start with) doesn't matter. There are only so many MIQ rooms, and they are always fully booked - therefore if the bubble never happened, the same room would have been occupied by someone else from another part of the world entering NZ.

I disagree, and I understand not all MIQ were fully booked at this time because some had been put aside for this purpose in case travel bubble people needed to go into MIQ as shown at https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/03/trans-tasman-contingency-plan-the-reason-australia-travel-bubble-won-t-mean-more-space-in-managed-isolation.html

So the numbers needing to return would be less if there wasn't the bubble and those people then needed to go into MIQ. There isn't an unlimited number of people returning as there is only a finite number of people overseas needing to return. The bubble created a higher number, and also were coming from a high risk area at that time, and they apparently went into MIQ put aside for them, which I presume means higher MIQ numbers being housed in NZ at that time.

mattwnz

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#2767749 27-Aug-2021 17:22

Dingbatt:

mattwnz:

(quote) antonknee:

Think the reasoning for that is:

Safe to say that the red flight returnees were only in NSW in the first place courtesy of the bubble. No bubble to get there, no need for red flights back. Ergo, this outbreak is still linked back to the bubble?

(quote)

Yes, you nailed it.

Except NZers we’re able to travel quarantine free to Australia since August 2020. NZ made it a ‘Bubble’ in February 2021.

Didn't the government warn people not to make unnecessary international travel? Plus how many people did travel at that time as they had to pay and get an MIQ space.?

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#2767750 27-Aug-2021 17:26

mattwnz:

ajobbins:

Not relevant. The leak was at MIQ, so the origin of the traveller or how they left NZ (If they left NZ to start with) doesn't matter. There are only so many MIQ rooms, and they are always fully booked - therefore if the bubble never happened, the same room would have been occupied by someone else from another part of the world entering NZ.

I disagree, and I understand not all MIQ were fully booked at this time because some had been put aside for this purpose in case travel bubble people needed to go into MIQ as shown at https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/03/trans-tasman-contingency-plan-the-reason-australia-travel-bubble-won-t-mean-more-space-in-managed-isolation.html

So the numbers needing to return would be less if there wasn't the bubble and those people then needed to go into MIQ. There isn't an unlimited number of people returning as there is only a finite number of people overseas needing to return. The bubble created a higher number, and also were coming from a high risk area at that time.

Still no.

MIQ is always 100% booked. Yes, rooms were reserved in case there was a need to close the bubble, but that meant while the bubble was operating, bookable MIQ capacity reduced. Had the bubble never happened, those same 'reserved for the bubble' rooms would have been bookable by other travellers, for which demand and massively outstripped supply since the beginning.

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