2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

Forums › Health and fitness › 2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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Mad Scientist
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#2795803 15-Oct-2021 10:16

Rikkitic:

Batman: if he said launch nuclear weapons, the generals will have no choice but to launch.

Actually, the generals went to extraordinary lengths to ensure he did not launch nuclear weapons. Do you not follow the news?

he'd just sack them like he sacked everyone else, and find one who will, but it is possible he cannot find one single army official who would be willing to turn the second key.

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freitasm

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#2795804 15-Oct-2021 10:17

Enough Trump in this thread.

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Zeon

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#2795812 15-Oct-2021 10:38

If the vaccines lose efficacy over time is it better to get sick now and get it over and done with?

Speedtest 2019-10-14

Batman

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#2795815 15-Oct-2021 10:43

Zeon:

If the vaccines lose efficacy over time is it better to get sick now and get it over and done with?

i think you mean exposed (vs get sick) now. i think that's what australia is doing. freshly vaccinate and open up and let it do its thing at peak population immunity. kind of a smart and sneaky experiment where they have no other option.

what the result is - time will tell!

GV27

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#2795818 15-Oct-2021 10:43

sen8or:

I understand that there is no hammer big enough to pound the stupid out of some people, but it would be good to at least have independent facts to support the pro-vax cause?

Simple. Those deaths aren't linked to a vaccination.

https://www.medsafe.govt.nz/COVID-19/safety-report-30.asp

27 of these deaths are unlikely related to the COVID-19 vaccine
14 deaths could not be assessed due to insufficient information
33 cases are still under investigation.
1 death was likely due to vaccine induced myocarditis (awaiting Coroner’s determination)

People conflate "Had the vaccine, died at some point in the future" with "died BECAUSE of the vaccine". Both would get reported but only one of them actually matters.

There's only one instance of that being directly linked to the vaccine (the last one).

Geektastic

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#2795824 15-Oct-2021 10:53

I was talking to someone who works for the DHBs yesterday - turns out "no jab - no job" is nowhere near as simple as it sounds (bet you're surprised!) and there is much panic about how to deal with what is a heavily unionised work environment when people refuse.

I suggested that the government had given clear guidance what to do, but apparently not. The question becomes "do we stand them down on pay, make them take leave they have accrued, stand them down on no pay etc etc".

My plan that I would simply fire them and have any complaints about that directed to the Minister for Health and the PM since they issued the policywas not thought workable, although it seemed simple enough to me! 😁

DonH

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#2795834 15-Oct-2021 11:04

Zeon:

If the vaccines lose efficacy over time is it better to get sick now and get it over and done with?

I've seen little evidence that having had Covid provides better or longer lasting protection than the vaccine against (re)infection.

I'd rather take reasonable precautions to avoid getting infected while waiting for a booster and hoping for more effective vaccines to be developed.

People hear what they see. - Doris Day

Fred99

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#2795836 15-Oct-2021 11:09

I'm pretty sure that the government would be fully aware of complications around vaccine mandates, but announced them anyway.

Mandates have huge majority public support. Passing (retrospective) legislation to enforce them is probably on the cards.

huckster

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#2795837 15-Oct-2021 11:10

Zeon:

If the vaccines lose efficacy over time is it better to get sick now and get it over and done with?

I think you are rolling the dice with that option.

Having Covid itself is a higher risk to you than having the vaccine and then having catching Covid.

Immunity does wane whether you had covid or the vaccine. Boosters will be on the cards for some time to come (my parents in the UK jumped at the chance to get their booster last week mere days after they had their flu shots).

arcon

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#2795847 15-Oct-2021 11:28

Zeon:

If the vaccines lose efficacy over time is it better to get sick now and get it over and done with?

No. Vaccines still protect against severe illness and death even long after they've started to lose efficacy. Its the antibody defense that starts to wane over time, which means susceptibility to mild illness can return after 4-6 months. However B & T cell based immunity which builds up more gradually still offers improved protection against more serious illness. (Source: Dr Ann Falsey, University of Rochester School of Medicine).

ezbee

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#2795852 15-Oct-2021 11:42

Geektastic, Interesting insight.

In a heavily unionized workforce it comes down to if the vast majority who got vaccinated.
Presumably over 80 or 90% , would they vote to strike for the rest ?
Its a risk that some sort of misplaced comradeship might produce this illogical result.

However maybe calling their bluff will clear the air.
I expect many are pretty tired of their collogues who could endanger them or their patents ?

Some Midwives are on the edge of pseudoscience, and I have heard of practices actively advising parents to ignore child vaccination schedule.
It seem our vaccination rates for measles etc has been dropping last number below the 90% considered a minimum, many nations were 95% or more.

Pregnancy puts you at considerable danger if you get Covid, as your systems are already very stressed looking after baby.
Many sad stories around the world, would you like us to prioritize you or your baby.

Livin the Gangsta life in South Auckland, I see many who could be on the edge of diabetic and other health problems.
Once this outbreak gets more momentum I expect a lot of 'Who Knew' re what we could reap.

Fred99

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#2795854 15-Oct-2021 11:47

ezbee:

Pregnancy puts you at considerable danger if you get Covid, as your systems are already very stressed looking after baby.
Many sad stories around the world, would you like us to prioritize you or your baby.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/10/11/england-pregnant-women-unvaccinated-covid/

Unvaccinated pregnant women account for nearly 20 percent of the most critically ill coronavirus patients requiring lifesaving care in England in recent months, according to the country’s National Health Service.

“Since July, one in five covid patients receiving treatment through a special lung-bypass machine were expectant mums who have not had their first jab,” the NHS said in a statement Monday.

tdgeek

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#2795863 15-Oct-2021 11:59

Batman:

Zeon:

If the vaccines lose efficacy over time is it better to get sick now and get it over and done with?

i think you mean exposed (vs get sick) now. i think that's what australia is doing. freshly vaccinate and open up and let it do its thing at peak population immunity. kind of a smart and sneaky experiment where they have no other option.

what the result is - time will tell!

Deaths. Daily.

Buster

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#2795870 15-Oct-2021 12:21

Just under 2200 cases in Victoria today. They think they will peak in about two weeks.

mkissin

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#2795871 15-Oct-2021 12:23

The problem with naturally acquired immunity through exposure is it’s totally random what part of the virus your body chooses to focus on. That’s why the immunity you get is often rubbish; see what happens with the common cold etc.

It’s like if you learned to recognise a dog based solely on the presence of a wagging tail. When presented with a docked Rottweiler, you’ll be totally stumped. That’s why the mRNA vaccines that can laser focus on the spike protein are much better.

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