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Technofreak
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  #2801638 26-Oct-2021 21:25
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MaxineN: Hmmm

With the mandate this is very much going to cause conflict between my fiancée's brother who's an anti vaxx and very pro "God will protect me" kind of guy and the rest of us.

He's going to get very very angry over the fact that he'll be restricted and it might add more fuel to the fire(upon other issues).

If anyone's got pointers that could maybe persuade that be helpful but at the same time. Should I just not bother and let that anti vaxx brother just find out the hard way?

 

I have a similar situation though without the "God will protect me" bit.

 

I think trying to find the trigger for the anti vax stance is the first step. Trying to understand that and then working through that. However unfortunately they usually didn't use logic to arrive at their decision. If that's the case using logic to change the outcome is doomed to fail.

 

One of the issues is the anti vaxxers don't believe Covid is as bad as it is and there is no need to have the vaccine. The government is hyping it all up to scare us so that then we'll readily accept any controls and limitations on our freedoms. They will throw up things like the vaccination certificate and restrictions around gathering sizes or the compulsory use of masks as over reaching government control Why the government is trying to scare us all into having the vaccine I've yet to figure out. 





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Technofreak
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  #2801643 26-Oct-2021 21:35
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Geektastic: "Police have condemned a planned hīkoi or march from Rotorua to Northland which is believed to be making its way towards Auckland this evening."

Never mind condemning it. Arrest them! Enough already.

 

A hikoi or march. However they are driving by motor vehicle. Wouldn't that be a convoy?

 

What are these idiots up to?





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cokemaster
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  #2801646 26-Oct-2021 21:44
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Geektastic: "Police have condemned a planned hīkoi or march from Rotorua to Northland which is believed to be making its way towards Auckland this evening."

Never mind condemning it. Arrest them! Enough already.

 

+1

 

Words fail me on the stupidity of doing this during a pandemic however will be yet other test of the governments resolve to act on their public health order. 

 

  • We've already seen the Police unable or unwilling to act to prevent Brian T & co's protests. Only enacting charges after the fact.
  • They've turned the head the other way on two rather large funerals (one in West Auckland, one down south)
  • Brian T & Co's "picnic" saw the Police simply take photos, again unable or unwilling to prevent this from happening.
  • Their 105 line states that one should not report Covid violations over the phone, instead concerned citizens should file their reports online.

I think politically/PR-wise, the cops on the ground will be given the go-ahead to stop them passing into Auckland. Anything less and it sets a very dangerous precedence that the government is toothless against protests against Covid... and that protests are the way to go in order to get restrictions relaxed (something that is quite dangerous with the level of vaccinations + infections going on at the moment).

 

@Technofreak - I was expecting protesting from Aucklanders wanting to get out... not folks wanting to get in (or at least pass through). As for cars - its a long walk... maybe they can get some buses or bicycles? 





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Geektastic
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  #2801650 26-Oct-2021 21:56
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Technofreak:

MaxineN: Hmmm

With the mandate this is very much going to cause conflict between my fiancée's brother who's an anti vaxx and very pro "God will protect me" kind of guy and the rest of us.

He's going to get very very angry over the fact that he'll be restricted and it might add more fuel to the fire(upon other issues).

If anyone's got pointers that could maybe persuade that be helpful but at the same time. Should I just not bother and let that anti vaxx brother just find out the hard way?


I have a similar situation though without the "God will protect me" bit.


I think trying to find the trigger for the anti vax stance is the first step. Trying to understand that and then working through that. However unfortunately they usually didn't use logic to arrive at their decision. If that's the case using logic to change the outcome is doomed to fail.


One of the issues is the anti vaxxers don't believe Covid is as bad as it is and there is no need to have the vaccine. The government is hyping it all up to scare us so that then we'll readily accept any controls and limitations on our freedoms. They will throw up things like the vaccination certificate and restrictions around gathering sizes or the compulsory use of masks as over reaching government control Why the government is trying to scare us all into having the vaccine I've yet to figure out. 



Pretty sure there are hundreds of thousands if not millions of dead people who claimed God would protect them.

They always seem to forget their God created the virus too....





quickymart
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  #2801651 26-Oct-2021 21:57
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MaxineN: Hmmm

With the mandate this is very much going to cause conflict between my fiancée's brother who's an anti vaxx and very pro "God will protect me" kind of guy and the rest of us.

He's going to get very very angry over the fact that he'll be restricted and it might add more fuel to the fire(upon other issues).

If anyone's got pointers that could maybe persuade that be helpful but at the same time. Should I just not bother and let that anti vaxx brother just find out the hard way?

 

The Spinoff had some articles recently on exactly this:

 

https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/22-09-2021/how-to-talk-to-loved-ones-who-are-vaccine-hesitant/

 

https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/05-10-2021/three-practical-questions-to-ask-the-vaccine-hesitant/

 

 


Daynger
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  #2801663 26-Oct-2021 22:36
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Geektastic: 

Pretty sure there are hundreds of thousands if not millions of dead people who claimed God would protect them.

They always seem to forget their God created the virus too....

 

 

 

Nearly 5million dead.

 

They also conveniently that their imaginary friend created the scientists and gave them the skills, vision and drive to create the vaccine too.


Batman

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  #2801670 26-Oct-2021 22:57
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MaxineN: Hmmm

With the mandate this is very much going to cause conflict between my fiancée's brother who's an anti vaxx and very pro "God will protect me" kind of guy and the rest of us.

He's going to get very very angry over the fact that he'll be restricted and it might add more fuel to the fire(upon other issues).

If anyone's got pointers that could maybe persuade that be helpful but at the same time. Should I just not bother and let that anti vaxx brother just find out the hard way?

 

https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/cmfnz/pages/1395/attachments/original/1630106676/Understanding_Covid_Vaccination.pdf?1630106676

 

used google-fu and found this




Geektastic
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  #2801672 26-Oct-2021 23:00
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Daynger:

 

Geektastic: 

Pretty sure there are hundreds of thousands if not millions of dead people who claimed God would protect them.

They always seem to forget their God created the virus too....

 

 

 

Nearly 5million dead.

 

They also conveniently that their imaginary friend created the scientists and gave them the skills, vision and drive to create the vaccine too.

 

 

 

 

Very true.

 

I wonder if the self-same folk would prefer to swap modern court systems for those of a more religious leaning. Perhaps this from medieval England:

 

 

 

"There were two main forms of ordeal - fire and water - with God being seen as determining guilt through the result.

 

For fire, the accused had to carry a red-hot bar of iron and walk 9ft (3m). If the wound healed cleanly within three days, they were innocent. But if it festered, guilty. With water, the accused was plunged into a pool of cold water on a rope which had a knot tied in it, a "long hair's length" away from the defendant.
If they sank to the depth of knot, the water was deemed to be accepting them at God's behest. They were therefore innocent and dragged out before they drowned.
But if they floated the water was rejecting them, rendering them guilty."

 

 

 

No? Anybody? [crickets.....]






Batman

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  #2801683 27-Oct-2021 06:16
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this https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-announces-details-on-vaccination-mandates-for-businesses/GBSSQAXRSHDXCWKQXWIBCVPDXI/

 

plus this 

 

nzkiwiman:

 

For those who will lose their jobs due to the vaccine mandates, Ardern says: "Your ability to access government support, and your ability to access for, e.g., an unemployment benefit or to seek support in finding new employment is not, and will not be affected by your vaccination status."

 

 

as i have said many times before - the dole looks tempting


tdgeek
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  #2801685 27-Oct-2021 06:31
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mattwnz:

 

This sums up NZs situation in a nutshell.   Also not enough effort being put into vaccination. I can't believe how uniformed and selfish some people are being out there and on social media. It has really increased in the last week. Also noticed some of the questions today from the media were following similar tracks. 

 

https://www.iheart.com/podcast/211-the-mike-hosking-breakfast-24837692/episode/rod-jackson-epidemiologist-on-vaccine-and-88422905/  

 

 

Yep. Compliance wasn't great so we failed lockdown strategy while we vaccinate, so now we need to vaccinate hard and we arent. There is no shortage of vaccination places. 


MikeB4
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  #2801687 27-Oct-2021 06:49
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This thread seems to be developing more into a hate speach vehicle and becoming much less about useful information.

freitasm
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  #2801691 27-Oct-2021 07:16
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MikeB4: This thread seems to be developing more into a hate speach vehicle and becoming much less about useful information.

 

 

I disagree on this view. Hate speech in which sense? That people disapprove of the low vaccine trend so far, or that people don't like other people's actions endanger the nation?





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MikeB4
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  #2801692 27-Oct-2021 07:20
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The references to folks religion for example are being couched in hate speech styles for example.

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