2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2805069 1-Nov-2021 09:40

Yep, it's the dithering that is annoying me.

The Government is dithering - where are the vaccine passports (they've had 18 months)? I'm sure we'll get nothing out of them today other than more nice words and imploring the people who never watch any TV to get their vaccination (they've reached all the people who listen, they've got to get to the ones that are disconnected from MSM).

The vax hesitant are dithering - 'I'll get the vaccine, but there's no hurry' - yes there is, 1.6m Aucklanders (1.598m of them who haven't even been in touch with Covid) are going a little stir crzy, and would quite like to be able to visit their loved ones etc.

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Eva888

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#2805077 1-Nov-2021 09:51

It’s good to look at how some other countries deal with travel and Covid. We tend to examine our own NZ bubble and get caught up in a perpetual cycle of super protection and fear, when other countries are trusting and allowing in unvaccinated and recovered individuals with a few days self quarantine and the vaccinated waltz in free of restrictions

Watched the All Blacks game last night and the thousands of spectators packed in the stands filled me with envy at the normality.

It’s time to let our fellow Kiwis come home and treat them as responsible citizens that will know how to look after themselves and others. None of them are travelling while sick, they are tested and vaccinated. We also need to stop pointing fingers at them because they chose to travel overseas. That’s what humans have done from the beginning of time. Our citizens should never be denied a return home.

You can’t keep punishing our Kiwis outside of NZ because of a small minority in our country who will likely never change their views and who are now quietly spreading Covid here because of fear of the establishment rules that may force them into quarantine if found to be sick. These people among us now are a far greater spreader danger to everyone than our healthy citizens coming home.

The world is accepting Covid is here to stay and we need to get on with life and not be held to ransom by the few who don’t care, don’t believe, or just simply don’t want to comply.

https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/travelling-to-denmark-amid-covid-19-rules-restrictions-explained/

James Bond

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#2805131 1-Nov-2021 09:55

Eva888:

Watched the All Blacks game last night and the thousands of spectators packed in the stands filled me with envy at the normality.

No reason why we couldn't do this here next week

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-59091214

GV27

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#2805133 1-Nov-2021 10:03

James Bond:

No reason why we couldn't do this here next week

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-59091214

Well... we don't have functioning, standardised vaccine passports for one thing.

But tbh I'm happy waiting for large-scale outdoor events. What I want is to be able to legally be inside with my family who aren't already in my bubble.

Oblivian

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#2805141 1-Nov-2021 10:16

I'm surprised you haven't been like the rest increasing the daily numbers and pulled the 'Just one visit won't hurt... I'm only 1 person, right....' Like everyone else seems to have already.

(And that's not isolated. There was still neighbourly walking groups and extra cars outside homes down here as soon as it was clearer down here early on)

Technofreak

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#2805143 1-Nov-2021 10:18

trig42:

Yep, it's the dithering that is annoying me.

The Government is dithering - where are the vaccine passports (they've had 18 months)? I'm sure we'll get nothing out of them today other than more nice words and imploring the people who never watch any TV to get their vaccination (they've reached all the people who listen, they've got to get to the ones that are disconnected from MSM).

The vax hesitant are dithering - 'I'll get the vaccine, but there's no hurry' - yes there is, 1.6m Aucklanders (1.598m of them who haven't even been in touch with Covid) are going a little stir crzy, and would quite like to be able to visit their loved ones etc.

What are they doing about getting through to these people?

Einstein's definition of insanity comes to mind. “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."

They need to change their approach. Get out in the community and directly target those that haven't been vaccinated. Knock on doors, go to work places, set up shop outside supermarkets or other places where pretty well everyone goes on a regular basis.

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freitasm

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#2805145 1-Nov-2021 10:19

@Eva888: Watched the All Blacks game last night and the thousands of spectators packed in the stands filled me with envy at the normality.

We had this for months, while the other countries had longer lockdowns. It just happened things changed in the last three months due to a different strain.

@Eva888: It’s time to let our fellow Kiwis come home and treat them as responsible citizens that will know how to look after themselves and others. None of them are travelling while sick, they are tested and vaccinated. We also need to stop pointing fingers at them because they chose to travel overseas. That’s what humans have done from the beginning of time. Our citizens should never be denied a return home.

None of them are travelling while sick? I think the number of cases on arrivals MIQ differs from this view.

@Eva888: You can’t keep punishing our Kiwis outside of NZ because of a small minority in our country who will likely never change their views and who are now quietly spreading Covid here because of fear of the establishment rules that may force them into quarantine if found to be sick. These people among us now are a far greater spreader danger to everyone than our healthy citizens coming home.

True.

@Eva888: The world is accepting Covid is here to stay and we need to get on with life and not be held to ransom by the few who don’t care, don’t believe, or just simply don’t want to comply.

Correct. We still need to make sure we don't overload the health system too early. The sooner we get willing people vaccinated, the better.

@Eva888: https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/travelling-to-denmark-amid-covid-19-rules-restrictions-explained/

All very sensible.

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GV27

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#2805148 1-Nov-2021 10:23

Oblivian:

I'm surprised you haven't been like the rest increasing the daily numbers and pulled the 'Just one visit won't hurt... I'm only 1 person, right....' Like everyone else seems to have already.

I was at Hobsonville Pt (We're a five minute drive) on the weekend and it's like pre-pandemic times out there. Partner and I were fully masked and signed in, but many didn't. In the end we stuck to the back streets and left early.

Have to admit it's been extremely rd to stay motivated once I'd been double-jabbed; felt like I had done all I could do and was just stuck waiting around for everyone else.

I think you'll see people looking for excuses to breach - "Oh, I got a package sent to the wrong address, just dropping something off" etc. I assume that is factored into the modelling.

PolicyGuy

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#2805150 1-Nov-2021 10:26

Technofreak:

trig42:

Yep, it's the dithering that is annoying me.

The Government is dithering - where are the vaccine passports (they've had 18 months)? I'm sure we'll get nothing out of them today other than more nice words and imploring the people who never watch any TV to get their vaccination (they've reached all the people who listen, they've got to get to the ones that are disconnected from MSM).

The vax hesitant are dithering - 'I'll get the vaccine, but there's no hurry' - yes there is, 1.6m Aucklanders (1.598m of them who haven't even been in touch with Covid) are going a little stir crzy, and would quite like to be able to visit their loved ones etc.

What are they doing about getting through to these people?

Einstein's definition of insanity comes to mind. “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."

They need to change their approach. Get out in the community and directly target those that haven't been vaccinated. Knock on doors, go to work places, set up shop outside supermarkets or other places where pretty well everyone goes on a regular basis.

The MoH & DHBs don't have the staffing & resources to do that - and maybe not the corporate will either.
Those that do have the desire and the personnel can't get access to the MoH data which would tell them which streets to target because "Privacy" - Whānau Ora Commissioning Agency (John Tamihere) are suing MoH a.t.m. to get access to the data in usable form

Aspects of MoH 'Head Office' seem to be as much part of the problem as part of the solution

wellygary

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#2805152 1-Nov-2021 10:28

GV27:

Have to admit it's been extremely rd to stay motivated once I'd been double-jabbed; felt like I had done all I could do and was just stuck waiting around for everyone else.

Yip, and this is the big problem for the government, without a vaccine passport ( which is not due till end of Nov) there is little reward that can be given to those double jabbed,... and without that resentment will grow...

PolicyGuy

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#2805154 1-Nov-2021 10:33

trig42:

The Government is dithering - where are the vaccine passports (they've had 18 months)?

The French & Italians have a vaccine passport, and the International Air Transport Association (IATA) has one too.
Why hasn't MoH just bought one of these ready-made solution off the shelf , done minimal localisation and pushed it out the door a month or six weeks ago?
I suspect they're doing a bespoke "special for NZ" solution.

Yet not having a vaccine passport solution in place is the one major practical thing that stops us going to the traffic light system that relieves the vaccinated from significant restriction.

Aspects of MoH 'Head Office' seem to be as much part of the problem as part of the solution

Oblivian

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#2805159 1-Nov-2021 10:37

Technofreak:

What are they doing about getting through to these people?

Einstein's definition of insanity comes to mind. “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."

They need to change their approach. Get out in the community and directly target those that haven't been vaccinated. Knock on doors, go to work places, set up shop outside supermarkets or other places where pretty well everyone goes on a regular basis.

Placemakers did it last weekend here. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/126840183/covid19-why-a-woman-in-one-of-nzs-worstvaccinated-areas-finally-got-the-jab

They netted more than the community one at the top of the article. (of which was focused on one person they attempted to convince previously - only actioned after the CHC cases news.. seeing a trend here)

Technofreak

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#2805162 1-Nov-2021 10:40

PolicyGuy:

The MoH & DHBs don't have the staffing & resources to do that - and maybe not the corporate will either.
Those that do have the desire and the personnel can't get access to the MoH data which would tell them which streets to target because "Privacy" - Whānau Ora Commissioning Agency (John Tamihere) are suing MoH a.t.m. to get access to the data in usable form

Aspects of MoH 'Head Office' seem to be as much part of the problem as part of the solution

Yes, sadly the "can't do" attitude prevails when we really need the "can do" attitude.

Also there's too much hiding behind the "privacy" veil.

Agree resources may be an issue, but this is something they have had time to address. Privacy issues aside, there is no reason why there couldn't be a tent outside supermarkets especially in areas where they know the vax rate is low. It would raise awareness and capture a lot of people. Let's face it the organisations who have fundraising stalls at supermarkets don't go there just because it's a nice place to stand. They know it's an excellent place for foot traffic.

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Jas777

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#2805163 1-Nov-2021 10:40

PolicyGuy:

The MoH & DHBs don't have the staffing & resources to do that - and maybe not the corporate will either.
Those that do have the desire and the personnel can't get access to the MoH data which would tell them which streets to target because "Privacy" - Whānau Ora Commissioning Agency (John Tamihere) are suing MoH a.t.m. to get access to the data in usable form

Aspects of MoH 'Head Office' seem to be as much part of the problem as part of the solution

What do you expect MoH is a classic Ministry that ticks boxes and promotes to ones' level of incompetency.

Oblivian

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#2805165 1-Nov-2021 10:42

PolicyGuy:

[
Why hasn't MoH just bought one of these ready-made solution off the shelf , done minimal localisation and pushed it out the door a month or six weeks ago?
I suspect they're doing a bespoke "special for NZ" solution.

Cooorrrrect. Need to work around the data retention, our jab database access, and imagine for most part privacy commissioner to appease any tinfoil caps. When it's a ready-made product, I guess they don't have the same aspect of control

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