2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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Max
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#2820433 28-Nov-2021 09:38

tdgeek:
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Except we aren't. If you're a Kiwi you can still come in. Doh.

I can't believe how slow governments are at making these decisions. Once I was informed of the Omicron Strain I'd have slapped a precautionary ban on travel from anywhere in Africa within ten minutes. Yet they take days.

MIQ works, unless you want to ban Kiwis from their own country. And best include all of Europe and Asia also, add in Middle East as its in Israel at least, and of course all of Africa. And any countries that have had people from those countries recently, example UK etc who now have cases.

Maybe if they pushed for higher vaccination rates this probably wouldn't have happened. Then again. They're not exactly rich.

35% isn't a lot.

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Batman

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#2820437 28-Nov-2021 09:44

MaxineN:

Maybe if they pushed for higher vaccination rates this probably wouldn't have happened. Then again. They're not exactly rich.

35% isn't a lot.

i read somewhere that western countries would offer to donate their stock of expiring vaccines but they didn't want them.

i would have taken them!

sorry this is a very sensitive issue

would happily delete if not appropriate

(disclaimer - i eat expired food all the time and have taken the odd painkiller in my cupboard that have been expired for years)

Sup

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#2820469 28-Nov-2021 11:18

Batman:

MaxineN:

Maybe if they pushed for higher vaccination rates this probably wouldn't have happened. Then again. They're not exactly rich.

35% isn't a lot.

i read somewhere that western countries would offer to donate their stock of expiring vaccines but they didn't want them.

i would have taken them!

sorry this is a very sensitive issue

would happily delete if not appropriate

(disclaimer - i eat expired food all the time and have taken the odd painkiller in my cupboard that have been expired for years)

An unfortunate combination of factors lead to South Africa declining some vaccine from Covax. They had the beta variant. And the vaccine they declined was the Oxford Astra Zeneca vaccine...which seemed to struggle against Beta.

Given the rates of HIV AIDs they probably did us all a favor by limiting the risk of immuno compromised patients being potential causative agents in vaccine escape.

Complex picture there unfortunately. Govt bans one vaccine, the populace naturally become very weary and guarded about all vaccines.

I stand to be corrected by someone from SA with personal experience of the mood there.

The African Union followed suit.

Just keep swimming...

ajobbins

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#2820569 28-Nov-2021 13:39

tdgeek:

MIQ works

Well, sort of. Delta got in through a leak in MIQ, and there have been a number of other likely leaks since the case that seeded all your current ones. If Omicron is as infectious as it appears, MIQ leaks will probably be even more likely.

tdgeek:

unless you want to ban Kiwis from their own country.

We currently effectively are. I'm about to book some flights for March so hopefully the borders are still open. I have tried booking an MIQ spot in every one of the releases for the past few months and never even been close to successful. We are banned from our own country unless you literally win a lottery.

All that said - I do think it's prudent to put in place some short term measures to restrict entry until more is known about this new variant. If it's transmissible but much milder, then it will warrant a different response at the border than if it's as bad or worse than existing variants.

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mattwnz

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#2820704 28-Nov-2021 17:14

ajobbins:

Well, sort of. Delta got in through a leak in MIQ, and there have been a number of other likely leaks since the case that seeded all your current ones. If Omicron is as infectious as it appears, MIQ leaks will probably be even more likely.

Source? I don't recall seeing anywhere that periodic genome testing has brought up any new lines of Delta that have come through the border. Not unless it is something that they aren't telling us. But they have said that all recent MIQ cases have been the Delta variant NZ in 'good position' to combat new Omicron variant - MoH (msn.com)

ezbee

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#2820715 28-Nov-2021 18:28

Northland double vax at 76% eligible, may be 60% population depending on proportion of young.

That sounds low being so closely connected to Auckland in usual summer.
Even if iwi do their own thing for far North, mobility of Northlanders will still mean plenty of interaction in the middle.
People will want to visit Auckland fanau as well, and at that point you can't stop people going home.
Even Xmas shopping to get products and prices not available up North.

Usual gatherings and catch up for families that have been split, not just outsiders as its painted.
This crosses socio economic groups, its not just the people with batches and towing boats etc.

People are already late to start vaccination journey.
Hopefully they shake a leg as traffic light day is almost here.

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tdgeek

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#2820725 28-Nov-2021 18:41

ajobbins:

Well, sort of. Delta got in through a leak in MIQ, and there have been a number of other likely leaks since the case that seeded all your current ones. If Omicron is as infectious as it appears, MIQ leaks will probably be even more likely.

tdgeek:

unless you want to ban Kiwis from their own country.

We currently effectively are. I'm about to book some flights for March so hopefully the borders are still open. I have tried booking an MIQ spot in every one of the releases for the past few months and never even been close to successful. We are banned from our own country unless you literally win a lottery.

All that said - I do think it's prudent to put in place some short term measures to restrict entry until more is known about this new variant. If it's transmissible but much milder, then it will warrant a different response at the border than if it's as bad or worse than existing variants.

Agree. MIQ could never be 100% secure, but with 170,000 passing through it, its been as good as it gets.

many want no MIQ we were heading that way, self isolation etc, so a pity you can't get back easier. I feel that a new variant which we don't know what it will do, needs to cause a shutdown, until more known. That won't take months, just 2 to 3 weeks.

tdgeek

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#2820727 28-Nov-2021 18:43

ezbee:

People are already late to start vaccination journey.
Hopefully they shake a leg as traffic light day is almost here.

Same. If they don't it's everyone else's fault. That my gripe. Its no secret.

sbiddle

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#2820734 28-Nov-2021 19:23

Confirmed Omicron cases in Australia

Sup

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#2820757 28-Nov-2021 20:47

Watching the latest Downing Street presser (BBC Youtube if you are interested) the UK are certainly on Red alert in name and in tone.

A lot of talk around the world (I watch a lot of world coverage in my retirement here) on the ease with which some vaccines can be altered to suit the mutation changes.

Everybody knows about mRNA, that it can be changed very easily, totally synthetic, change the coding, away you go. What I did not realize is that the viral vector vaccines can be altered fairly quickly too. So that would be Astra Zeneca and J and J.

The protein sub unit jabs, no so much.

With Global vaccine capacity set to be enough to cover the entire wold in terms of the adult population in the following year, we really need to put infrastructure in the third world...serious infrastructure.

Clearly we keep coming back to a problem that requires strict application of vaccine mandates around the world. We could foreseeably still be chasing this Tiger for five years minimum, this is not an exaggerated time frame for tackling the whole problem in a way that finally mitigates risk to all.

However it is getting easier...and that is the key...incremental progress....mark the good milestones and remember more good news is always around the corner.

Just keep swimming...

quickymart

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#2820765 28-Nov-2021 21:41

sbiddle:

Confirmed Omicron cases in Australia

Sadly, yes.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2021/11/covid-19-two-omicron-cases-confirmed-in-sydney-260-close-contacts-ordered-to-isolate.html

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#2820771 28-Nov-2021 22:23

Omicron vaccine in 100 days .... https://www.news.com.au/national/pfizer-signals-it-can-have-omicron-vaccine-ready-in-100-days/news-story/51a3f564a3c47859e4719fff341fd5eb

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#2820772 28-Nov-2021 22:25

PS people hanging out for Omicron vaccine ... as for me booster asap, every vaccine is a training week for my immune system.

you don't go and play the all blacks having done no training.

you don't go fight covid having done no immune system training.

even if you train for a certain all blacks squad and suddenly they change their line up, is still better than having done no training.

the more the better for me.

mattwnz

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#2820773 28-Nov-2021 22:27

quickymart:

sbiddle:

Confirmed Omicron cases in Australia

Sadly, yes.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2021/11/covid-19-two-omicron-cases-confirmed-in-sydney-260-close-contacts-ordered-to-isolate.html

The problem is that it appears that other recent travelers only need to isolate at home, and we know that a certain number won't do the right thing. NZ is lucky we aren't phasing out MIQ yet, and this may teach us a lesson not to relax too much when it comes to covid. New variants are going to popup, and we need to pivot at the drop of a hat. We need to learn more about this variant , as it appears it may eventually replace Delta as the main variant due to it apparently being more infectious. If the vaccine isn't very effective against it, and it puts a similar demand on the health system as Delta does, then we may have to wait until the vaccine is tweaked for it.

ajobbins

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#2820783 28-Nov-2021 23:57

mattwnz:

ajobbins:

Well, sort of. Delta got in through a leak in MIQ, and there have been a number of other likely leaks since the case that seeded all your current ones. If Omicron is as infectious as it appears, MIQ leaks will probably be even more likely.

Source? I don't recall seeing anywhere that periodic genome testing has brought up any new lines of Delta that have come through the border. Not unless it is something that they aren't telling us. But they have said that all recent MIQ cases have been the Delta variant NZ in 'good position' to combat new Omicron variant - MoH (msn.com)

here, here, here and here. Note the first two were never confirmed one way or another - they just stopped reporting on them after the initial news release. The latter two demonstrate in-facility transmission ie. a leak. Unfortunately this doesn't bode well for the newest variant. There may be more examples than this, I had seen some previously and didn't make a note of the details so this is just what I found with a quick google.

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